145 replies to this topic

[Daughter of Dragons]

I have not totally resigned myself to one particular theory on this subject. After thinking about it, it would make sense that the "one word" that Brienne spoke at that moment must have been, "Arya". Brienne is given the choice to be hanged or to murder Jaime. She knew that whatever she spoke, it had to be the right word, or else. She needed to give Lady Stoneheart something that she wanted. However, she also could not and would not turn her back on Jaime and betray him with murder. I think that when she was hanging there she said the only thing that she could say and live through it. The information that she had received just prior to that had been of Sandor Clegane and the report that Arya was either with him or that she had been for a time. That was part of Brienne's original oath to Catelyn and even at the threat of death I believe it's possible that she would bring that up just before death was inevitable for herself. Cat (even the undead version) would have halted Brienne's execution at the prospect of having her daughter returned.

Other than the word being "Arya", the only other word that might possibly turn this hoarde aside would be if they had said "Sandor" or "Hound". I think that she could have possibly said his name, hoping that they would be curious as to why, especially in light of the fact, that he is presumed dead by some and seen riding about the area with his helmet on by other reports.(We know who was wearing it.)
When she returned to Jaime, it is possible that in all honesty she needed his help to get the girl back. I just can't see her being a traitor to herself and all that she believes. She still wanted to fulfill the oath to Catelyn, in the return of her daughter, and also to stand good for the one between herself and Jaime.  

Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 30 September 2011 - 05:06 AM.

[Gray Ghost]

I still think that the only words that could truly save her, after having already made her subtle decision of noose, are either "Stannis" (to remind Uncat of Cat's previous vow to Brienne), or a word related to information about Cat's daughters that Uncat is currently unaware of..  Make sense to you guys?

[Été]

Kanyin Snow, on 28 September 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

I loved the whole Kingswood Brotherhood story, Robin Hood almost.

That's the Brotherhood Without Banners. The Kingswood Brotherhood wreaked havoc in the forests south of KL about 20 years before the current story, kidnapping and ransoming nobles. They included the Smiling Knight, Simon Toyne, Wenda the White Fawn who captured Merrett Frey, and Ulmer the archer who's now in the Night's Watch. Just so you know!

[brashcandy]

ahpender, on 29 September 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

I still think that the only words that could truly save her, after having already made her subtle decision of noose, are either "Stannis" (to remind Uncat of Cat's previous vow to Brienne), or a word related to information about Cat's daughters that Uncat is currently unaware of..  Make sense to you guys?

Can you remind me of what that vow was to Brienne? But I do like the idea that whatever word she said was a word that had to shock unCat into some feeling/knowledge she had when she was the rational, sound Catelyn.
It was either something abstract like "Justice" or something concrete like a name. The text says that she said a word, which makes me think she didn't say a name, unless GRRM is just toying with us.

[headtrip_honey]

brashcandy, on 29 September 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

Can you remind me of what that vow was to Brienne? But I do like the idea that whatever word she said was a word that had to shock unCat into some feeling/knowledge she had when she was the rational, sound Catelyn.
It was either something abstract like "Justice" or something concrete like a name. The text says that she said a word, which makes me think she didn't say a name, unless GRRM is just toying with us.

Cat witnessed Brienne swear to kill Renly's murderer, and then later promised that she would not hold Brienne back from that vow.

[dragginstoned]

She bribed her way into more talk.

By saying

"saphires"

[brashcandy]

headtrip_honey, on 29 September 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

Cat witnessed Brienne swear to kill Renly's murderer, and then later promised that she would not hold Brienne back from that vow.

Hmmm, ok. So maybe the word she screamed was "Remember!"

[H.T. Lannister]

The word isn't important. She probably said "wait". She was ok with dying, but when she saw Pod hanging, she decided she'd soil her honor and agree to Cat's request in order to save the boy.

Edited by H.T. Lannister, 29 September 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[headtrip_honey]

H.T. Lannister, on 29 September 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

The word isn't important. She probably said "wait". She was ok with dying, but when she saw Pod hanging, she decided she'd soil her honor and agree to Cat's request to save the boy.

If the word wasn't important, GRRM prolly would have printed it. If it was just "Wait," why not print it?

There'd still be cliffhanger tension over WHY she said "wait."

It may not be as dramatic as some suggestions, but I'll wager it's more than "wait."

[measter Marto]

I actually agree – the word wasn’t that important imo. Maybe GRRM didn’t print it, because he didn’t want us to have any idea about the outcome of that situation. Even an insignificant word, such as “wait”, would suggest that Brienne is ready to make a deal with Uncat. And GRRM didn’t want us to know that.

[Melpomene]

I'm also on the boat that Brienne said the name of one of Cats daughters.

I would think any parent would stop briefly if they were able to be given one hint of news of a beloved child.


Ooorrr...


Maybe Brienne said theTully motto "Family, Duty, Honor"  (Though most likely a broken down version, considering the whole being-strangled-to-death thing)

Catelyn was very big on those words, and a reminder might have brought her back to her original sentiments.


Oorr....


A crackpot theory. Brienne yeld out that she was pregnant (Whether somehow genuine or faking it) In many historical cases, women were pardonned or were delayed from being executed if they were with child. Granted this setting in the book is quite a different circumstance, but with Catelyn being a mom herself, she probably wouldn't want to kill an innocent and/or was reminded of basic justice. A bit of a long stretch, but why not throw it in there?


Oorr...


She yelled out something related to Podrick? In mindset, the group might be convinced that he is useful. He knows all the in's and out's of the Lannisters, their plans, their goals and what is going on in court, as well as witnessed some serious events. Help save his life and all.

On a side note, I do hope Pod is ok!

Edited by {Dances With Direwolves}, 29 September 2011 - 11:32 AM.

[Gray Ghost]

dragginstoned, on 29 September 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

She bribed her way into more talk.

By saying

"saphires"

You know.. at first I thought this idea was way off.  But the more I think about it, maybe she did say "saphires."  It would actually be a very good plot idea to use the same ploy to save her life now, that Jaime used to save her from being raped/savaged during her time with Vargo Hoat.  I mean, we all know that it's not far-fetched to think her last thoughts drifted to her feelings for Jaime, is it?

[headtrip_honey]

ahpender, on 29 September 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

You know.. at first I thought this idea was way off.  But the more I think about it, maybe she did say "saphires."  It would actually be a very good plot idea to use the same ploy to save her life now, that Jaime used to save her from being raped/savaged during her time with Vargo Hoat.  I mean, we all know that it's not far-fetched to think her last thoughts drifted to her feelings for Jaime, is it?

I could see her saying it, but I can't see unCat caring about sapphires.

[Gray Ghost]

headtrip_honey, on 29 September 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

I could see her saying it, but I can't see unCat caring about sapphires.

Maybe not, but it depends on who is around her.  Is it even made clear that Uncat is present?

[headtrip_honey]

ahpender, on 29 September 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Maybe not, but it depends on who is around her.  Is it even made clear that Uncat is present?

At the actual hanging, it's not made clear that she followed them out. But the men were kinda terrified of her. I don't think they'd halt an execution based on something she wouldn't want them to.

[King Harren]

What is she cried out "father" and unCat remembers that she is someone's child too, just like Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon were hers, and remembers what it's like to lose a child...

Edited by King Harren, 29 September 2011 - 12:17 PM.

[Gloria]

Hmm, someone's mention of the Tully words made me think, why not "honor!".  Surely what unCat is doing to Brienne (and what she's been doing to the various unsavories she's been dealing with) is dishonorable.

Yes, the Freys deserve it (OK, only some of them do).  But the method that unCat's been using is certainly not honorable by any stretch of the word.

Or, "Tully!" might similarly work to remind unCat of her roots.

"Blackfish"?

Hmm.

[dragginstoned]

ahpender, on 29 September 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

You know.. at first I thought this idea was way off.  But the more I think about it, maybe she did say "saphires."  It would actually be a very good plot idea to use the same ploy to save her life now, that Jaime used to save her from being raped/savaged during her time with Vargo Hoat.  I mean, we all know that it's not far-fetched to think her last thoughts drifted to her feelings for Jaime, is it?

i wonder how many times she is going to wind up owing her weight in sapphires.

that put in in the mind of this stanza from Henry 5th:

Once more I come to know of thee, King Harry
if for thy ransom thou wilt now compound,
before thy most assured otherthrow

[Nausicaä]

I'm sure it was "sword". ADWD spoilers:

Spoiler

She was given only two options:

Quote

“She says that you must prove your faith.”

“How?” asked Brienne.

“With your sword. Oathkeeper, you call it? Then keep your oath to her, milady says.”

“What does she want of me?”

"All she asks from you is Jaime Lannister. She says that you must choose. Take the sword and slay the Kingslayer, or be hanged for a betrayer. The sword or the noose, she says. Choose, she says. Choose.”

Sword = Brienne is an oathkeeper = she will go and get Jaime. Which is what we know she did. And those three words weren't featured heavily in the first version of her last AFFC chapter, but were repeated again and again in the final version:

Quote

Brienne fled from him. “My sword,” she called. “Oathkeeper. Please.”

Quote

“Jaime,” she heard herself scream, “Jaime.”

Quote

When Brienne went to draw her sword, she found her scabbard empty. “No,” she cried, as Ser Clarence charged. It wasn’t fair. She could not fight without her magic sword. Ser Jaime had given it to her. The thought of failing him as she had failed Lord Renly made her want to weep. “My sword. Please, I have to find my sword.”

“The wench wants her sword back,” a voice declared.

“Jaime called it Oathkeeper. Please.”

Quote

It was a sword she wanted. Oathkeeper.

Quote

Jaime! she wanted to cry.

Quote

“I want my clothes. My sword.” She felt naked without her mail, and she wanted Oathkeeper at her side.

Daughter of Dragons, on 29 September 2011 - 02:34 AM, said:

After thinking about it, it would make sense that the "one word" that Brienne spoke at that moment must have been, "Arya".The information that she had received just prior to that had been of Sandor Clegane and the report that Arya was either with him or that she had been for a time.

The Brotherhood knows as much about what happened to her as Brienne does. Sandor kidnapped her from them and the two of them had the fight with Polliver, the Tickler and the squire at their inn. What can Brienne tell them on top of that? "After they left, the Hound's wound got infected, Arya left in unknown direction and he died"? I really don't see how that would save anyone's neck.

[Daughter of Dragons]

{Dances With Direwolves}, on 29 September 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

I'm also on the boat that Brienne said the name of one of Cats daughters.

I would think any parent would stop briefly if they were able to be given one hint of news of a beloved child.


Ooorrr...


Maybe Brienne said theTully motto "Family, Duty, Honor"  (Though most likely a broken down version, considering the whole being-strangled-to-death thing)

Catelyn was very big on those words, and a reminder might have brought her back to her original sentiments.


Oorr....


A crackpot theory. Brienne yeld out that she was pregnant (Whether somehow genuine or faking it) In many historical cases, women were pardonned or were delayed from being executed if they were with child. Granted this setting in the book is quite a different circumstance, but with Catelyn being a mom herself, she probably wouldn't want to kill an innocent and/or was reminded of basic justice. A bit of a long stretch, but why not throw it in there?


Oorr...


She yelled out something related to Podrick? In mindset, the group might be convinced that he is useful. He knows all the in's and out's of the Lannisters, their plans, their goals and what is going on in court, as well as witnessed some serious events. Help save his life and all.

On a side note, I do hope Pod is ok!

I really do believe that whatever the word it had to be one that Brienne knew Cat would remember and that would also stir some emotion in her.
Cat is undead at this point and is not completely the person that Brienne once knew, but I suppose that since Cat most definately remembered her anger over her son's death and the fact that Brienne had sworn an oath to her, she thought of something significant. There would have been few things that stirred her these days, given that she was not truly Catelyn as she was beforehand. From what I had read of Berric Dondarian, every time that Thoros brought him back, he had lost some memories and said that he felt that he lost a bit more of himself each time he was returned. The times that Berric was revived, if I remember correctly, it was done so fairly soon after his death. If he was losing memories and parts of himself (feelings, personality, etc) then how much more would that have affected Cat? The best I can recount, she was dead 3-4 days or so. Thoros actually said that it had been too long to try to resurrect her.
I don't really think that she would have said that she was pregnant. However, GRRM, does like to throw us off track sometimes. He does love to see what he can sneak past us.
In my opinion, I don't believe that Cat (dead or undead) would have believed her saying that anyway. She would have assumed that she was lying just to spare her life, so I feel that whatever Brienne said had to be believable. She didn't have to have the men there believe it or anyone else. She knew that he had to be something of significance to Cat.
I can see, at least a little, how she might have brought up Podrick too. However, I think that would only have stirred Cat if she spoke of it in a way that would remind Cat of her own children. If that was the case Cat probably would have released Brienne. We know that she remembered her daughters were lost, otherwise she would not be the least interested in Brienne. She would have just had her killed from the beginning. She also remembered the oath that Brienne had made to return her daughters to her.
I think that most of what Cat remembers is what was going through her mind when she was murdered. Her main objective seems to be the annihilation of House Frey and that would tell me that she was thinking of what they did to her and Robb. At that moment, the mother in her had to also be thinking of the children she was leaving behind and the fact that she had no clue of their whereabouts.
So you have made me see that it could have been something about Pod that Brienne said, only if she could feel sympathy for another mother. UnCat's actions have really not shown her to have much sympathy for anyone else, though.   So to me, I still think that it had either be "Sansa" or "Arya's" name that she said or simply that she was close to finding her daughters? Cat had thought that Arya was most likely dead, but if Brienne had told her that she had proof that she was alive it had to stir something in her.

Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 30 September 2011 - 05:07 AM.