Tin Pony Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Right! Didn't mean to suggest you were wrong on where it is. Rereading my post it sort of seems that way. I was just showing that he made mention of the wall twice, which I believe could be very important. That's why I pointed it out :P Still, I find it very odd that for all this time no one noticed a supposedly extinct creature flying about the North. Did the burning of Winterfell reawaken it? And for that matter when was the Nightfort abandoned? I'm sure GRRM makes note of this somewhere. I would think sometime after the dragons were already extinct, yes? Or is my timeline completely off base here. If thats the case I'm sure the men stationed at Nightfort wouldve noticed a dragon. So perhaps it did live underneath Winterfell??!Sorry for rambling, this is just all too interesting. It's driving me insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Pony Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The wiki states that the Nightfort was abandoned 200 years before the War of Five Kings. The wiki also states this "With Daenerys's exchange of life for life, the first three dragons in over a hundred years were born."It had only been a hundred years since the last dragons died out? I had always thought it was a lot longer of a span and that the dragons were more of an ancient history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipsuel Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Lol, me too :) But yes, I think it was under WF -- not living per se, but preserved.Or maybe at the wall -- but either way, not living -- preserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I'm not sure if it is the case here but sometimes a wolf sees things that hasn't happened yet. For instance, Ghost saw Shaggydog fighting something which will presumably happen on Skagos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 People have suggested that there could be all kinds of things in the Wall, from dormant giants to dragons, so it's entirely possible there's some kind of ready-made army or weapon there. With all the speculation about the Wall coming down, perhaps it wasn't necessarily a bad thing if there was a last-ditch defense preserved inside of it. Any dragons in the Wall would probably have to be leftovers from a foreign hero who fought the Others (Azor Ahai, perhaps?) or native Westerosi dragons. I think Martin has alluded to the fact that Westeros may have had its own native dragon population long before the arrival of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackseer Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The last dragon died after the Nightfort was abandoned, I believe. Queen Alysanne visited the Nightfort and proposed to the Night's Watch to abandon it, to move to a new castle built with the money from her jewelery, Deep Lake. And Queen Alysanne had a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipsuel Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 But if there were one (or more) preserved, who would know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckongo Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I hope that the "slayer of lies" visions were not metaphorical. The first is obviously Stannis, the second could possibly be the people supporting a false Targaryan (Aegon).I WANT to believe the third vision is of Melisandre finally suceeding in unleasing a stone dragon, and that Dany will reveal that it in some way isn't what it was meant to be. I hate metaphors like the one where the four rats rape the woman. It's such a stretch to analyze what they mean when they don't literally represent anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipsuel Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I agree about the rat metaphor -- it is so vague, I don't even care what it means. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oath breaker Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't know if it's relevant but in GOT it states that the last dragons born were born on dragonstone, where Shereen has her dragon dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I hope that the "slayer of lies" visions were not metaphorical. The first is obviously Stannis, the second could possibly be the people supporting a false Targaryan (Aegon).So Henry Tudor was a false king, was he? You know, Henry Tudor also had a red dragon (not a black) on his coat of arms. It will be interesting to see the color of Aegon’s dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned'sHead Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Am I the only one who thinks the 'Winterfell dragon' was just a vivid description of the smoke and fire billowing out of the castle? I hate to be a downer, but I just don't see it. There was no magic in the Theon/Ramsay sack of Winterfell. Sure there was blood and fire, but it was just a battle - I feel like you'd need a little more to wake a dragon (i.e. Dany's sacrifice in AGOT). Like someone else said, where has the dragon been for 3 books? I think it would likely be roaming the country side eating children and sheep, ala Drogon. Dany's dragons aren't exactly shy creatures.Also, binding a dragon in your basement to provide primitive HVAC service for your castle, while genius, doesn't seem practical or likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oath breaker Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I can explain that for ya. The rat thing symbolizes the war of 5 kings, the woman is westeros and the dwarfs are the kings fighting over the spoils. There are 4 of them because Renly is dead before Balon gets involved so there's 4 kings fighting over westeros at any given time.I agree with Ned's head about Winterfell btw, hope you get reunited with Rob's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Quoting still not working for me.@Ned'sHeadI would agree with this assertion that Summer was just misunderstanding what he saw if the description didn't go out of it's way to make it seem like a Dragon.I don't see how Summer could misinterpret a burning building as a "Giant winged Snake breathing fire in the sky" or something along those lines. This description coupled with Osha's humorous line about the group of them "making enough noise to wake a Dragon" makes me think there was something else going on in this scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.I don't think that this is the stone beast but is Bran seeing Dany's dragons or other dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Am I the only one who thinks the 'Winterfell dragon' was just a vivid description of the smoke and fire billowing out of the castle? I hate to be a downer, but I just don't see it. There was no magic in the Theon/Ramsay sack of Winterfell. Sure there was blood and fire, but it was just a battle - I feel like you'd need a little more to wake a dragon (i.e. Dany's sacrifice in AGOT). Like someone else said, where has the dragon been for 3 books? I think it would likely be roaming the country side eating children and sheep, ala Drogon. Dany's dragons aren't exactly shy creatures. Also, binding a dragon in your basement to provide primitive HVAC service for your castle, while genius, doesn't seem practical or likely. I don't think there are dragons in winterfell(maybe dormant eggs). but definitivly something else (brandon the builder's inbuilt curse to wards it sackers? the ghosts of the dead starks?)going on in winterfell after the wedding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckongo Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Am I the only one who thinks the 'Winterfell dragon' was just a vivid description of the smoke and fire billowing out of the castle? I hate to be a downer, but I just don't see it. There was no magic in the Theon/Ramsay sack of Winterfell. Sure there was blood and fire, but it was just a battle - I feel like you'd need a little more to wake a dragon (i.e. Dany's sacrifice in AGOT). Like someone else said, where has the dragon been for 3 books? I think it would likely be roaming the country side eating children and sheep, ala Drogon. Dany's dragons aren't exactly shy creatures. Also, binding a dragon in your basement to provide primitive HVAC service for your castle, while genius, doesn't seem practical or likely. "The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snaked whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars." Note the "He bared his teeth" part. Summer definitely thought he saw a great winged snake, since he reacted by baring his teeth. Whether or not there was something there is up for speculation, but I don't think George put that there for description. That's a very strange metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Pony Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't know if it's relevant but in GOT it states that the last dragons born were born on dragonstone, where Shereen has her dragon dreams. Shireen is also currently on her way to the Nightfort, which has been abandoned for quite some time and possibly home to some ancient magic/monster. Her dreams could be realized while there. Or, the dream could be purely metaphorical and she actually isn't going to get eaten by a dragon. EDIT: IIRC Bran seems to think there are monsters living somewhere in the NF according to Old Nan's stories. I think its quite possible that there is some substance to Nan's stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDanielstanTheBold Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 "He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise." Was this in a game of thrones? If so, is it possible that he just saw the dragons forthcoming? Not necessarily actual dragons yet but more like 'tomorrow will bring dragons' type deal? Personally I think it would be cool if there were more dragons but wouldn't Mels magic have been strong already and the dragonglass candles have been lit if dragons were already around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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