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why total war?

total war westeros

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#1 flame7926

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:29 PM

Why is a mod being made for total war? is there any reason its this game specifically?

#2 zmflavius

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:14 PM

There are a number of reasons.

1) Medieval 2: Total War as a game is actually fairly easy to mod.
2) M2: TW is one of the few games which effectively combines the strategic depth of a TB Grand Strategy game with the battle tactical aspect of an RTS. Because it comprises both a TB and a real-time element, neither the battle tactics nor the strategic aspects, both of which are incredibly important for any Westerosi game, are neglected.
3) The quality of both aspects is unparalleled. M2: TW's battle system is one of the best in the market, and its strategic element is the equal of Civilization's.
4) The AI, like the AI of most games, is pretty bad, but player modding has been successful in improving this.
5) Any game which is purely TB or real-time simply cannot fully capture ASOIAF.

#3 a wooden chair

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:28 PM

I'd also like to point out that it being an older game allows for far more of the fanbase to be able to enjoy it, especially those with budgets, aged computers, or a combination thereof.

#4 flame7926

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:16 PM

I wasnt thinking of the battle aspect, but for the other part it seems like Sengoku or Crusader Kings 2 would work a lot better, since they are more character driven, like the series, and have vassals, and way better diplomacy.

#5 zmflavius

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:27 AM

I wasnt thinking of the battle aspect, but for the other part it seems like Sengoku or Crusader Kings 2 would work a lot better, since they are more character driven, like the series, and have vassals, and way better diplomacy.


Actually...M2: TW is character driven, has vassals, and the diplomacy has been mostly fixed in the best mods.

#6 GreenAppleFossoway

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:19 PM

Diplomacy or not, In Westeros, it usually comes down to who has the bigger army. Renly knew this, and if he hadn't been assassinated by Stannis he'd have probably won the Iron Throne through military might.

#7 zmflavius

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:40 PM

Diplomacy or not, In Westeros, it usually comes down to who has the bigger army. Renly knew this, and if he hadn't been assassinated by Stannis he'd have probably won the Iron Throne through military might.


However, it was, to be honest, through Petyr's diplomacy that this military might passed to the Lannisters, who did win through this, and this alone. Had he been even a day late, the Lannister claim to the crown would have been completely scuttled.

#8 flame7926

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:42 PM

medieval 2 is definitely not character driven. There are characters, but what you are really interacting with is the countries. The vassal system is way less complex. But a big part of the war of the five kings is the diplomacy and alliances, and intrigue.

#9 zmflavius

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:16 PM

medieval 2 is definitely not character driven. There are characters, but what you are really interacting with is the countries. The vassal system is way less complex. But a big part of the war of the five kings is the diplomacy and alliances, and intrigue.


But in the end, it does boil down to whoever has the largest army. Which is one area in which Total War is the best simulator. For all the intrigue, it's boiled down to nothing except who can take control of their faction's armies.

However, I don't really know much about the games you described. Can you give some details about them, compare them in detail to Total War, describe how difficult/easy it is to mod them, and describe how a mod for them would turn out.

#10 Slick Mongoose

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 03:14 PM

If you want to mod a different game, have at it!

#11 GreenAppleFossoway

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 03:41 PM

I'm pretty sure there is a Crusader Kings ASoiaF mod out already, there might be a thread on it here. Also, I wouldn't knock Westeros Total War till you try it. The mod is really fun already, and it's only halfway done.

#12 flame7926

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:44 PM

Yeah, there is a mod for it, and a discussion thread about making a mod for Crusader Kings 2 when it comes out. I really wish it was possible to merge the politics and character things from CK and put in the real time battles from total war...

#13 Werthead

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:58 AM

I wasnt thinking of the battle aspect, but for the other part it seems like Sengoku or Crusader Kings 2 would work a lot better, since they are more character driven, like the series, and have vassals, and way better diplomacy.


Sengoku and Crusader Kings 2 have not yet been released, so therefore modding for them would be difficult /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

There are also ASoIaF mods for Mount & Blade, Neverwinter Nights and Crusader Kings 1 available.

However, you yourself point out the problem. The Total War strategic game is a little lacking compared to the depth of the Paradox games, but this is made up for by both the modifications (which strengthen the strategic stuff much more than in the vanilla game) and also the addition of the battle simulator mode. If the Paradox games had a similar paradigm I think a mod for them would have been made instead, but they don't. And in CK1 there's nothing more frustrating then sending off an army to fight a battle that should be a no-brainer and instead lose on the vagaries of AI and events you don't have any control over.

As for why Medieval II and not the later Total War games (Empire/Napoleon or Shogun 2), that's because the ability to mod later games has been dramatically reduced. You can't alter the campaign maps, for example, so you can't create a map of Westeros.

#14 flame7926

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

Well Crusader Kings 2 is coming out Tuesday, and the mod is partially done already. The character aspect of it, succession, and tiers, like there is the emporer, then king, then duke, then count, then baron.

http://forum.paradox...-of-Thrones-mod

http://citadel.prophpbb.com/

#15 Werthead

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:37 AM

Personal attacks and insults against other posters are not tolerated on this board. Don't let it happen again.

#16 Deniz lol

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:37 AM

However, it was, to be honest, through Petyr's diplomacy that this military might passed to the Lannisters, who did win through this, and this alone. Had he been even a day late, the Lannister claim to the crown would have been completely scuttled.


If i remember correctly Stannis still had the larger army his lords were just over confident and fell for the trap. Also the knight of flowers and his host attacked Stannis's army from the rear and he was dressed as Renly which put fear into the soilders as they thought he came back from the dead. I believe the victory came from more then just this army as Tyrions idea of putting a chain and trapping the fleet while destroying there ships with wildfire significantly reduced there strength at sea which would have allowed them to take the city and with a larger force with a superior fleet holds a walled city its unlikely they would lose to the knight of flowers and his smaller host. The wildings also had a larger army and were easily defeated by Stannis and his knights. So no its not just based on army size its about the leaders, terrain, experience, equipment and loyalty.

#17 Corvinus

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:00 AM

If i remember correctly Stannis still had the larger army his lords were just over confident and fell for the trap. Also the knight of flowers and his host attacked Stannis's army from the rear and he was dressed as Renly which put fear into the soilders as they thought he came back from the dead. I believe the victory came from more then just this army as Tyrions idea of putting a chain and trapping the fleet while destroying there ships with wildfire significantly reduced there strength at sea which would have allowed them to take the city and with a larger force with a superior fleet holds a walled city its unlikely they would lose to the knight of flowers and his smaller host. The wildings also had a larger army and were easily defeated by Stannis and his knights. So no its not just based on army size its about the leaders, terrain, experience, equipment and loyalty.


The Lannisters and the Tyrells had a larger army than Stannis. Stannis got only the stormlords to join him + whatever he had originally. The Tyrells had made up at least half of Renly's forces + Tywin who brought his entire army. But if Stannis had taken the city before they arrived, he probably would have been able to hold it. Also, it was Garlan Tyrell, not Loras who wore Renly's armor, though Loras fought beside him.

Edited by Corvinus, 05 May 2012 - 09:01 AM.


#18 Lord commander_Snow

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:51 PM

I am guessing it's like the total war game series(medieval, Rome etc)

#19 Werthead

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 01:24 PM

It's a free 'mod' of Medieval II: Total War, which replaces the factions and map with the families and map of Westeros (not to mention much better AI, new units and music etc).

#20 Job Snow

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:41 PM

So how far is progress along now?



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