116 replies to this topic

[Chataya de Fleury]

OMG, this book is freacking awesome!!!  I'm on Chapter 28, and...

Spoiler

It seems pretty apparent to me that Lady whats-her-name on the ship from Gris is Kelgris.  Gris?  Kelgris?  Uh-huh.  Plus all the wolflike grins...

But, I thought that Dakovash and Kelgris were at odds?  So, what's going on with both of them talking to Ringli?

Also, it's pretty apparent that Ringil is the Ilwrack Changeling...Seethlaw and his sister, weren't they of clan Ilwrack?  And Ringil is now at home in the Grey Marches, can come and go...and not totally bonkers, yet.

Edited by Chataya de Fleury, 12 October 2011 - 09:44 AM.

[Werthead]

What I particularly liked:

Spoiler

Takeshi 'MFing' Kovacs showing up (disembodied, anyway) and chewing the shit with Ringil and talking about his 'Ahn-voy' status back in the days before the Moon blew up. I think Morgan realised he gave away a bit too much in TSR and just thought fuck it, he'd come clean with the situation.

[Lupigis]

WTF, I missed Kovacs! Where did he turn up?

(I did not spoiler tag cause this is the spoiler thread, so we don't have to do that, right?!)

[Chataya de Fleury]

Yeah...you know what?  This would be a bunch of spoiler tags and that's useless...so, the thread is clearly marked spoilers...so, unless the mods decide otherwise, let's spoil away!!!

Takeshi Kovacs is Takovach or Dakovash (steppe spelling/pronounciation vs Naomic spelling/pronounciation).

Yeah, loved how the destroyed the muhn   (Moon)

[Lupigis]

Chataya de Fleury, on 12 October 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

Takeshi Kovacs is Takovach or Dakovash (steppe spelling/pronounciation vs Naomic spelling/pronounciation).

Total facepalm moment!

I also missed lady Gris = Kelgris until it was spelled out later in the book.

Having now outed myself as an inattentive reader, I still must say that I doubt that Ringil is the Illwrack changeling. Didn't it say somewhere in TCC that the Illwrack changeling was first taken into the Grey Marches at a very young age? That doesn't fit with Ringil.

Also, in TSR (which I reread a few weeks ago), Seethlaw compares Ringil to another human who adapted very well to the Grey Marches, and then quickly changes the subject. When I read TCC I drew the conclusion that this other human was the Illwrack changeling. I'll see if I can dig up the quote later.

[Chataya de Fleury]

Lupigis, on 12 October 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Total facepalm moment!

I also missed lady Gris = Kelgris until it was spelled out later in the book.

Having now outed myself as an inattentive reader, I still must say that I doubt that Ringil is the Illwrack changeling. Didn't it say somewhere in TCC that the Illwrack changeling was first taken into the Grey Marches at a very young age? That doesn't fit with Ringil.

Also, in TSR (which I reread a few weeks ago), Seethlaw compares Ringil to another human who adapted very well to the Grey Marches, and then quickly changes the subject. When I read TCC I drew the conclusion that this other human was the Illwrack changeling. I'll see if I can dig up the quote later.

Yeah, I was only up to chapter 28 at the time.  By the time chapter 40 or so rolls around, it's clear that Ringil is NOT the Ilwrack Changeling, but that he's kind of...following in the footsteps, as it were.

[Xanrn]

I have read Steel Remains and its looks like I need to reread it before I start Cold Command because I have no idea what the fuck you lot are talking about.

But the planet is Earth in the Future after some kinda apocalypse? That is the Earth, Takishi Kovacs was on in Altered Carbon?

Hmm sounds like his Quellcrist Falconer revolution went tits up then.

[Werthead]

Yup. The Steel Remains hinted at it, but The Cold Commands leaves no doubt that these books are set in the Kovacs universe many thousands of years down the line after several major cataclysms.

[Chataya de Fleury]

Xanrn, on 12 October 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

But the planet is Earth in the Future after some kinda apocalypse? That is the Earth, Takishi Kovacs was on in Altered Carbon?

Yes.  Takovach (hmmmm, Takeshi! ) talks about stealing fire from the "old gods", etc.  Clearly some type of advanced weapon that could cause apocalyptic damage.  I'm guessing not nuclear, since Gil et al doesn't have 3 heads and glow in the dark   The Dark Court "destroyed the muhn" (moon), so this seems to be part of some war of some sort that the Envoys were involved in.

Morgan even calls the planet Earth at some point in book 2.  Aaah, page 36; love the Nook search function.  He could have been saying "earth" in a general sense...but if so, why capitalize it?

Edited by Chataya de Fleury, 13 October 2011 - 09:28 AM.

[boiled leather]

how did I miss that there is a new Morgan book? <runs to Amazon>

[Memory Lane]

Just finished it seconds ago.

1. That was fucking awesome, especially the ending. I'm confused, though - why was Gil laughing like a mad man?

2. It sounds like there was a huge war of some kind of Earth, that ended up with the Moon getting blown apart. Then the Aldrain showed up (or returned - they could be lying their asses off).

3. And yeah, the Takeshi Kovacs/Dakovash linkage was impossible to miss this time (I was told that Kovacs was a god in the series after reading TSR). I loved the scene he had with Ringil where he chews him out for his insolence - "I could just melt your fucking bones inside you right now!" Hilarious and scary. Having not actually read any of the Kovacs novels so far, anyone have any theories on how he ended up as a god?

4. The Archeth-Ishgrim lesbian sex scene was hot.

Edited by The Wisest Bass, 13 October 2011 - 12:22 PM.

[Chataya de Fleury]

The Wisest Bass, on 13 October 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

...Having not actually read any of the Kovacs novels so far, anyone have any theories on how he ended up as a god?

Oh, on the maniacal laugh, perhaps the irony of getting a medal from Jiral, when there was that whole conversation earlier, "I don't recall you being there" (when Jiral's father gave Ringil a medal).

On the Kovacs ending up as a god...well, he's a disembodied consciousness ("on the stack") for a long time.  Maybe, if you're super smart, you can figure out a way to get your consciousness out of the storage drive?  But I've only read 1.5 Kovacs novels (just could NOT get into "Woken Furies"), so I could be totally wrong.

Edited by Chataya de Fleury, 13 October 2011 - 12:58 PM.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

So uh, is Ringil undead? What's this Dark Gate non-sense?

And what are the Helmsmen? Seem like some sort of AI quantum computers to me.

[Chataya de Fleury]

Jurble the Ebonhearted, on 13 October 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

So uh, is Ringil undead? What's this Dark Gate non-sense?

And what are the Helmsmen? Seem like some sort of AI quantum computers to me.

I wouldn't say Ringil is undead...he just has more powers than a human...no idea on the Dark Gate; I'm in the middle of a re-read, maybe I (or another of us) will pick up a hint and throw it out there.  It's something I will be looking for, for sure.

Yeah, the Helmsmen also seem like AI to me.  Kind of like the Hendrix, for those who read Altered Carbon

[Xanrn]

Ok I just finished Chapter 4.

This ain't Earth, its Harlan's World.

That was clearly a Martian Orbital Weapon system firing as the "the sign".

Ok I am only 50% sure, but its a good bet.

Or at the very least its some of OWS. But if I could be arsed to go upstairs and get my copy of Woken Furies, I am pretty sure it was one of MOWS.

Also the Matrix/Network thing the MOWS have going might explain Takeshi.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

IIRC, Morgan stated in a previous thread that he included a particular scene in Broken Angels to demonstrate clearly that, look, guys, Kovacs isn't admirable, okay? Don't like him so match, dammit! My guess is the bit with Snarl was included in this book for similar reasons.

Assuming I'm correct, did that actually work on any of you? Because...well, yes, Gil is a terrible, terrible person. But he's just so fucking cool, and that scene with Snarl didn't alter that perception.

[Memory Lane]

I'm pretty sure it's Earth, although I'm open to suggestions. It's described as Earth at one point, and it has an orbital ring resulting from the destruction of its large moon (also called "muhn" at one point in Cold Commands).

That sort of makes you wonder what happened to the rest of human civilization during the collapse, seeing as how it was spread across interstellar distances and upon many worlds.

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

The Wisest Bass, on 14 October 2011 - 09:24 PM, said:

That sort of makes you wonder what happened to the rest of human civilization during the collapse, seeing as how it was spread across interstellar distances and upon many worlds.

Some of them turned into the Kiriath, ended back up on their original planet, decided the place sucked, and left, leaving a half-breed behind.

[Xanrn]

Actually I am becoming more and more convinced its Harlan's World.

There is too much Japanese/Eastern European/Water Culture going on.

Also this book is pissing me off no end.

One sentence plot summaries of unwritten Takeshi Kovacs novels. Enough for atleast 3 if not more so far. Makes me want to cry.



So Kwelgris is Quelcrist?

Edited by Xanrn, 15 October 2011 - 10:45 PM.

[shortstark]

Xanrn, on 15 October 2011 - 08:25 PM, said:

Also this book is pissing me off no end.

One sentence plot summaries of unwritten Takeshi Kovacs novels. Enough for atleast 3 if not more so far. Makes me want to cry.



So Kwelgris is Quelcrist?

This, very much this..

I really enjoyed this book, it wasnt as self contained as Steel, and has left more questions unanswered, like this Dark Gates thing, on the face of it it looks like that means Ringil died, probably from the plague and was brought back by Kwelgris.

I have mixed feelings with the idea of Undead ringil, i am leaning towards some kind of ascendancy, if this is so, does that mean he is going to be a part of the Dark Court...

also, what is the cold legions exactly? i was thinking that Ringils cold legion was the 3 escaped slaves who died, but in the final confrontation it seems as if all the sacrificed came to him, any ideas?