Complete Cyvasse Rules

[IronBorn To be WILD]

These rules are too complex. Cyvasse historical parallel is chess. Just as chess came to Europe via the silk road, cyvasse came to Westeros via the narrow sea trade routes. Also Cyvasse was spread about by orphans (read: Poor uneducated children) but has been picked up by every social class. What this means in my opinion is two things.

1. The Cyvasse board is simple in it's base form. Every piece is used. Nothing is extranious.

2. Most importantly, the rulles of Cyvasse should be SIMPLE. It's what made Chess such a popular game. You can teach it to a 10 year old on day, and watch a master battle a super computer the next. The rules are simple, but the strategy and possibility that comes from it is virtually endless.

My suggestions:

- Every piece is used. The unit ratio is simular to chess. (a lot of Rabble, 2 or 4 Horseman, 2 elephants, 1 dragon, etc.)

- No Tiers. No Rock Paper Scissors rules. No attack points. No flanking. Every unit can kill any other unit. A rabble unit should be able to take a dragon just as a pawn can take a queen. A piece's power should come from their movement capabilities and strategic use.

- Each unit should have a distinct movement pattern. Like chess this is where a units vulnerability comes in. A Bishop is particularly vulnerable to a Rook and visa versa because they cannot move the same way. An elephant should essentially be a rook. (it's stampedes straight in one direction until it hit's something) A knight is more maneuverable, maybe even being able to flank as it does in chess. Spearman move diagonally. Dragons are queens.

- Mountains should be impassable barriers even to dragons. Fortresses should be a positional piece. Any unit can occupy a fortress. If that unit is attacked, then the fortress is destroyed but the unit is saved, and next turn has the opportunity to escape or kill the attacking unit.

- Ranged unit's should have an attack radius that is a strength and an weakness. Example: An archer can attack anything that is two tiles away and move to occupy that space. However, the Archer cannot attack units that are adjacent to it. A trebuchet can kill anything 1-3 three spaces octganally regardless of any unit or mountain in front of it, but it can only move one space at a time and is vulnerable diagonally.

Just some thoughts. I think the current train of thought going to creating a version of this game is bassed too much off of RTS games and modern board games.

Also I'll actually write out some rules along these lines if anyone is interested.

please do, I cant wrap my head around how unfitting the version in this thread is to the setting of the books. The style of game proposed didnt come about til the 20th century.

[mikelepage]

please do, I cant wrap my head around how unfitting the version in this thread is to the setting of the books. The style of game proposed didnt come about til the 20th century.

Perhaps, but Stratego and Blitzkrieg, in addition to Chess, are what GRRM has actually said it was inspired by. Can't really get around that - and can't please everyone all the time either.

[IronBorn To be WILD]

Perhaps, but Stratego and Blitzkrieg, in addition to Chess, are what GRRM has actually said it was inspired by. Can't really get around that - and can't please everyone all the time either.

true, but it still doesnt mean that you take a modern game and adapt it to fit the setting., taking elements from those games and keeping the simplicity that allows children to learn it quikcly while still having a complex game with a medieval feel to it would work best. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3smNWZwMO2fSlJVQ3dDcHd6RjQ&usp=sharing this version though I had to dig through reddit to find, is so far the most realistic version of cyvasse I've found. It has Simple rules, complex pieces, a more involved capturing process, a great terrain tile set up and it took us a total of 5 minutes reading the rules and one playthrough to figure it out. It has all the elements mentioned in the books and the best part, its really fun and incredibly addictive.

[mikelepage]

true, but it still doesnt mean that you take a modern game and adapt it to fit the setting., taking elements from those games and keeping the simplicity that allows children to learn it quikcly while still having a complex game with a medieval feel to it would work best. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3smNWZwMO2fSlJVQ3dDcHd6RjQ&usp=sharing this version though I had to dig through reddit to find, is so far the most realistic version of cyvasse I've found. It has Simple rules, complex pieces, a more involved capturing process, a great terrain tile set up and it took us a total of 5 minutes reading the rules and one playthrough to figure it out. It has all the elements mentioned in the books and the best part, its really fun and incredibly addictive.

I can't get the files on that link to work on this computer - I'll try on another computer later.

I think conversations like this are exactly why GRRM was very wise to not specify official rules: people have different interpretations of the world he has built. Personally, I've never seen why a lot of people assume everything in it should be analogous to medieval Europe/Asia. For instance, the attitudes towards equality of race and sex and the freedom of religion in Essos (where Cyvasse arose) are extremely "modern". This is probably why Game of Thrones has become so popular. All of which is to say that trying to make everything "medieval" is misguided from my perspective, and to reiterate, GRRM has specifically said it was also inspired by two other 20th century board games.

Not that I necessarily have the "right" version. In defending this variant of cyvasse - I'd say to you that the most recent rules *are* actually quite simple once you have a board in front of you, it's just that writing them out makes it look quite complex (have you ever looked at the rules to chess written out - yikes). Granted I'm not sure how far through the thread you have read (your quote above was commenting on a set of rules from quite far back in the thread), but I have pushed to simplify things a lot in the last few revisions of the rules, while retaining the elements that make this version unique.

For instance, one thing that I had to work through move wise was that the elephant is not the equivalent of the rook, it's the equivalent of the bishop. Why? because in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaturanga - the ancestor of chess - the bishop piece is called an elephant (!), so on a square board the elephant should move diagonally (on squares of same colour), and on a hex board, the elephant should move "diagonally" (squares of same colour). The trebuchet is the equivalent of the rook (which makes sense since rooks are often the piece to trap the queen), and the knights/horses should have a special move as describe in my youtube clip here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdRYxVlff_0

It's things like that I feel make this a true analog of chess, while having it's own unique elements. Obviously, I'm biased ;)

[the1nk]

Cyvasse (Rules by MikeL v4.3)

Inspired by George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

George RR Martin has stated Chess, Blitzkrieg and Stratego as his inspiration for Cyvasse. In this variant: players take turns moving pieces in a manner similar to chess. The fate of the King is what decides the game. The board itself is a 91-square hexagonal grid (an element borrowed from Blitzkrieg), and players decide their initial set ups in secret behind a screen (an element borrowed from Stratego).

Download this:

www.mikelepage.com/pieces3.doc

Assemble it to look something like this:

http://www.freeimage...loads/acdcq.jpg

(These are assets from the webgame I'm working on)

Terrain and Pieces

Each player starts with one fortress tile, which they can place on any square in their half of the board, and this gives advantage to any piece placed on it (more on that later). The board surface itself is checkered in three colours, indicating three types of terrain which advantage certain pieces:

Hill (Carnelian/Red): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet

Forest (Jade/Green): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant

Water (Lapis Lazuli/Blue): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse

Each player has 10 pieces with movement as follows (note: no piece may "jump" another):

Stationary: Mountains (x6) (blocks movement of all pieces but Dragon)

Move any direction orthogonally (adjacent squares): 1 square for Rabble (x6) and King (x1)

Move any direction orthogonally: 3 squares for Crossbows (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Trebuchet (x2)

Move any direction diagonally (squares of same terrain): 2 squares for Spears (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Elephant (x2)

Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)

Move any direction to a range of 4 squares: Dragon (x1)

These are grouped into four tier levels as follows:

Tier 1: King, Rabble

Tier 2: Crossbows, Spears, Light Horse

Tier 3: Trebuchet, Elephant, Heavy Horse

Tier 4: Dragon

Capturing, Changes to "Effective" Tier level

A piece can always capture another piece of the same or lesser tier level. There are two factors which change the "effective" tier level and allow lesser ranked pieces to 1) attack higher rank pieces (flanking) or 2) defend against pieces of same rank (terrain).

1) Flanking plays make up much of the strategy in this variant of Cyvasse so this is where most of the complexity is. Flanking happens when you have 2 or more pieces with a bearing on a target piece. The attacking piece moves into the target square to capture the opponent piece and receives a effective increase in tier level because the other pieces "flank". For example: Two tier 3 pieces can capture a Dragon because the second tier 3 piece provides a temporary +1 improvement in tier. The same applies in a situation where two tier 2 pieces attack a tier 3 piece or two tier 1 pieces attack a tier 2 piece. Because each flanking piece of the same tier level as the attacking piece provides a +1 improvement, it is also possible for three tier 2 pieces to attack a Dragon, or for four tier 1 pieces to attack a Dragon.

The way pieces of different tier level interact in flanking is that each lower ranked flanking piece is worth half of a flanking piece from the tier above. So for example, a tier 3 piece and two tier 2 pieces can also capture a dragon because each lower ranked piece provides half the flanking power of the tier above it. Likewise a tier 3 piece, a tier 2 piece and two tier 1 pieces could also attack a dragon. The special ability of the King is to serve in a flanking play as an equal to the highest ranked piece in the attack. The highest ranked piece (or one of them, King included) must always be the one that moves to the target square.

2) Terrain provides a +1 improvement in tier level for defence only, and only as long as the piece is on it. A King in its fortress is therefore ranked tier 2. An Elephant on a forest tile (its "home" terrain) is ranked tier 4, but a trebuchet on a forest tile is only ranked tier 3. Unlike the other pieces, a Dragon does not receive any benefit from being in the fortress as it is already Tier 4.

Gameplay

Initial set up requires putting a screen across the centre row of squares so placement of pieces and tiles is done in secret. That leaves 40 "home" squares in which to place 25 pieces.

A King always starts in its fortress

All other pieces can be placed strategically as desired.

The dragon (the 26th piece) does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

Promotions:

The fortress can be used to promote any piece to a higher rank if that higher ranked piece has already been captured. If possible, this happens at the beginning of a players turn without counting as a turn itself. A rabble in the fortress can be promoted to any tier 2 piece which has been previously captured. A tier 2 piece can be promoted to its corresponding tier 3 piece (Crossbows to Trebuchet, Spears to Elephant, Light Horse to Heavy Horse), and any tier 3 piece may be promoted to King if this is done the turn immediately following the capture of the King. The Dragon piece can be neither promoted, nor replaced.

Ruining the Fortress:

If a player's fortress is occupied and cannot be retaken on the move immediately following the attack, the fortress is ruined and the fortress tile is removed from the board. All horse pieces can only move relative to the remaining fortress, but do gain the ability to move one square orthogonally (like rabble). That player can no longer promote pieces.

End game:

The fate of the King is ultimately what decides the game:

Just as the fortress must be retaken on the very next move in order for it not to be ruined, the King must be replaced on the very next move for the game not to be lost. If the fortress is already ruined, or no tier 3 pieces are left/able to move to the fortress to be promoted, the game ends as soon as the King is captured.

Extras

Optional extra rule:

Sea ports: Each of the 6 corners of the board are connected via the sea. Any piece that can move to one corner can move to either adjacent corner in that same move. If a fortress is placed on the edge of the board, it too counts as a sea port. The reason for this is to allow forest pieces (Spears/Elephants) to change the terrain that they are moving on.

Praise for the game:

"Just played my first two games of cyvasse. The first took twenty minutes, the second nearly three hours. My opinion? Compellingly addictive once the rules are grasped"... Xin

My advice:

Grab a friend a try a few games. All the moves become quite intuitive after a while. Make use of terrain and flanking. Don't bring out your dragon too early! Happy playing!

MikeL,

Quick clarification. Is the king the only piece that gets a bonus to Tier from sitting in the Fortress?

Thanks

[Warden of the Cheesy]

1. I am surprised that this hasn't already been officially created. (I think once we get to Young Griff, it's likely that the show will release something.. though they might just play it off as chess which would be dissappointing.)

2. I'm genuinely impressed with the rules that you came up with.

3. Maybe you should try and get in touch with GRRM and see if he'd be willing to allow you to make a mobile game out of these rules? Maybe message him about it or something.

[MikeL]

MikeL,

Quick clarification. Is the king the only piece that gets a bonus to Tier from sitting in the Fortress?

Thanks

Hi, and whoops, I always intended that every piece except Dragon gets an advantage in the fortress -that must have fallen out of the current set of rules. I'll fix it.

EDIT: I see what happened. In the ruleset 4.2 there was this passage:

"There are also four terrain types (coloured tiles placed on the board at the beginning of the game):

Hill (x2 per player): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet

Forest (x2 per player): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant

Grassland (x2 per player): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse

Fortress (x1 per player): gives advantage to all pieces."

And then in 4.3 where I changed it so that the entire board was made up of Hill, Forest and *Water* tiles because of the quote from AFFC, I changed it to:

"Each player starts with one fortress tile, which they can place on any square in their half of the board, and this gives advantage to any piece placed on it (more on that later). The board surface itself is checkered in three colours, indicating three types of terrain which advantage certain pieces:

Hill (Carnelian/Red): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet

Forest (Jade/Green): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant

Water (Lapis Lazuli/Blue): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse"

I must admit I haven't had a chance to play the game with version 4.3 rules - so it may be that 4.2 is better. Has anyone had a go?

[MikeL]

1. I am surprised that this hasn't already been officially created. (I think once we get to Young Griff, it's likely that the show will release something.. though they might just play it off as chess which would be dissappointing.)

2. I'm genuinely impressed with the rules that you came up with.

3. Maybe you should try and get in touch with GRRM and see if he'd be willing to allow you to make a mobile game out of these rules? Maybe message him about it or something.

Thanks!

GRRM has been asked about it, and he was quite specific in saying he has no intention to endorse a version (maybe he hasn't seen this version yet haha ;) ) but jokes aside, I understand his reasoning.

I think his quote on the matter was that he was always taught that "if you're writing about the greatest poet in the world, never try to include any of their poetry in your story, because chances are, YOU are not the greatest poet in the world". Same for game design - he wants it to have the gravitas and elegance of chess, and while I think this version is pretty good on both counts, it simply can't be like that until it's widespread and people forget it was largely invented by some dude in Australia :)

That's as far as GRRM is concerned. The show however will need to show something once they get to that stage, and what I would really like to do (if I had buckets of cash and could pay a professional woodworker to do this) is to create 3 really high quality sets (probably similar to what's in my youtube video - I can't imagine how to make the gemstone version look good without using real gemstones): One for me, one to send to GRRM in New Mexico, and one to send to the David and Dan at HBO in California :) Here's to dreaming big.

[MikeL]

Cyvasse (Rules by MikeL v4.4)
Inspired by George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

George RR Martin has stated Chess, Blitzkrieg and Stratego as his inspiration for Cyvasse. In this variant: players take turns moving pieces in a manner similar to chess. The fate of the King is what decides the game. The board itself is a 91-square hexagonal grid (an element borrowed from Blitzkrieg), and players decide their initial set ups in secret behind a screen (an element borrowed from Stratego).

Download this:
www.mikelepage.com/pieces3.doc

Assemble it to look something like this:
http://www.mikelepage.com/IMG_2206.jpg

(These are icons from the web game I hope to finish one day)

Terrain and Pieces

Each player starts with one fortress tile, which they can place on any square in their half of the board, and this gives advantage to any piece which is placed on it except the dragon (more on that later). The board surface itself is checkered in three colours, indicating three types of terrain which advantage certain pieces:

Hill (Carnelian/Red if using gems, rose colour if using wood): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet
Forest (Jade/Green if using gems, dark colour if using wood): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant
Water/Riverland (Lapis Lazuli/Blue if using gems, light colour if using wood): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse

Each player has 10 pieces with movement as follows (note: no piece may "jump" another):

Stationary: Mountains (x6) (blocks movement of all pieces but Dragon)
Move any direction orthogonally (adjacent squares): 1 square for Rabble (x6) and King (x1)
Move any direction orthogonally: 3 squares for Crossbows (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Trebuchet (x2)
Move any direction diagonally (squares of same terrain): 2 squares for Spears (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Elephant (x2)
Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)
Move any direction to a range of 4 squares, but cannot "jump" other pieces if they are in the way: Dragon (x1)

These are grouped into four tier levels as follows:

Tier 1: King, Rabble
Tier 2: Crossbows, Spears, Light Horse
Tier 3: Trebuchet, Elephant, Heavy Horse
Tier 4: Dragon

Capturing, Changes to "Effective" Tier level

A piece can always capture another piece of the same or lesser tier level. There are two factors which change the "effective" tier level and allow lesser ranked pieces to 1) attack higher rank pieces (flanking) or 2) defend against pieces of same rank (terrain).

1) Flanking plays make up much of the strategy in this variant of Cyvasse so this is where most of the complexity is. Flanking happens when you have 2 or more pieces with a bearing on a target piece. The attacking piece moves into the target square to capture the opponent piece and receives a effective increase in tier level because the other pieces "flank". For example: Two tier 3 pieces can capture a Dragon because the second tier 3 piece provides a temporary +1 improvement in tier. The same applies in a situation where two tier 2 pieces attack a tier 3 piece or two tier 1 pieces attack a tier 2 piece. Because each flanking piece of the same tier level as the attacking piece provides a +1 improvement, it is also possible for three tier 2 pieces to attack a Dragon, or for four tier 1 pieces to attack a Dragon.

The way pieces of different tier level interact in flanking is that each lower ranked flanking piece is worth half of a flanking piece from the tier above. So for example, a tier 3 piece and two tier 2 pieces can also capture a dragon because each lower ranked piece provides half the flanking power of the tier above it. Likewise a tier 3 piece, a tier 2 piece and two tier 1 pieces could also attack a dragon. The special ability of the King is to serve in a flanking play as an equal to the highest ranked piece in the attack. The highest ranked piece (or one of them, King included) must always be the one that moves to the target square.

2) Terrain provides a +1 improvement in tier level for defence only, and only as long as the piece is on its "home" terrain. An Elephant on a forest tile (its "home" terrain) is ranked tier 4, but a trebuchet on a forest tile is only ranked tier 3. Any piece in the fortress except the dragon (already tier 4) gets a +1 increase.

Gameplay

Initial set up requires putting a screen across the centre row of squares so placement of pieces and tiles is done in secret. That leaves 40 "home" squares in which to place 25 pieces.
A King always starts in its fortress
All other pieces can be placed strategically as desired.
The dragon (the 26th piece) does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

Promotions:
The fortress can be used to promote any piece to a higher rank if that higher ranked piece has already been captured. If possible, this happens at the beginning of a players turn without counting as a turn itself. A rabble in the fortress can be promoted to any tier 2 piece which has been previously captured. A tier 2 piece can be promoted to its corresponding tier 3 piece (Crossbows to Trebuchet, Spears to Elephant, Light Horse to Heavy Horse), and any tier 3 piece may be promoted to King if this is done the turn immediately following the capture of the King. The Dragon piece can be neither promoted, nor replaced.

Ruining the Fortress:
If a player's fortress is occupied and cannot be retaken on the move immediately following the attack, the fortress is ruined and the fortress tile is removed from the board. All horse pieces can only move relative to the remaining fortress, but do gain the ability to move one square orthogonally (like rabble). That player can no longer promote pieces.

End game:
The fate of the King is ultimately what decides the game:
Just as the fortress must be retaken on the very next move in order for it not to be ruined, the King must be replaced on the very next move for the game not to be lost. If the fortress is already ruined, or no tier 3 pieces are left/able to move to the fortress to be promoted, the game ends as soon as the King is captured.

Extras

Optional extra rule:
Sea ports: Each of the 6 corners of the board are connected via the sea. Any piece that can move to one corner can move to either adjacent corner in that same move. If a fortress is placed on the edge of the board, it too counts as a sea port. The reason for this is to allow forest pieces (Spears/Elephants) to change the terrain that they are moving on.

Praise for the game:
"Just played my first two games of cyvasse. The first took twenty minutes, the second nearly three hours. My opinion? Compellingly addictive once the rules are grasped"... Xin

An account of the first big game:
I've finally mocked up a physical set and played a couple of games with another chess player who is also an ASOIAF fan and he's totally addicted now :) We played one game that lasted for 3 hours (!) before he finally beat me, and the way the piece movement/terrain/promotion rules work is even better than I could have hoped. For instance, it really does matter when you "bring your dragon out" (the first game we suffered mutual dragon KOs while we were still figuring out how to use them). In the second game I nearly managed to trap his dragon with Trebuchets (their movement makes them the best/easiest piece to try to do this), but he managed to wiggle out of it and ended up winning because my dragon was then out of position. For the elephant/spear combo it's really important which squares you put them on to start with (since they only move on squares of one colour like bishops), especially if your opponent surrounds their fortress with mountains (still not sure if this is actually a good idea, but it's one way to play) because the elephants can move between mountains "through the passes" ;) It makes them the best piece to get to a mountain fortress. Also, we had a couple of heavy/light horse moves that came out of nowhere and completely changed the course of the game. It takes a game or two to get the hang of it, but all in all I'm *really* happy with it!

My advice:
Grab a friend a try a few games. All the moves become quite intuitive after a while. Make use of terrain and flanking. Don't bring out your dragon too early! Happy playing!

[MikeL]

Well, I've been busy:

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/mikelepage

I'm not trying to make money out of this. Don't get me wrong - it's pretty expensive (even as tightly as I've packed it - that cut the cost in half), but most of that is going towards the cost of Shapeways producing it, not to me. It seems to me that this is the easiest way for me to put this into the most people's hands.

If you buy it, let me know what you think! And if you have feedback on my piece designs, I'd love to hear it.
Cheers

MikeL

[LordFirkraag]

It's silly to come up with the rules...Cyvasse is supposed to be a game that's just as deep as chess. So unless you feel you have a rival to chess, don't give the rules. And if you do have a rival to chess, you probably should be thinking about copyrighting it because there's surely a lot of money to be made.

[MikeL]

It's silly to come up with the rules...Cyvasse is supposed to be a game that's just as deep as chess. So unless you feel you have a rival to chess, don't give the rules. And if you do have a rival to chess, you probably should be thinking about copyrighting it because there's surely a lot of money to be made.

Um, thanks? All I know is that I really enjoy playing it, and several others have told me they do too. Why shouldn't that be good enough?

Btw, copyrighting ideas doesn't really work in reality unless you're willing to lawyer up and spend a lot of effort trying to extract money from people who steal and probably don't have the money anyway (otherwise they would have paid their dues in the first place right?). As someone who has written music, books, performed in various mediums, and done a whole bunch of other creative engineering type stuff that doesn't pay well, believe me when I say it's just not worth getting stressed about - just keep creating and getting better at the process. All you can do is create good work and put it out there in a way that people can pay you easily if they are honest and want to show you their appreciation.

[Kienn]

[snip]Rules

I have a few questions.

1) I watched your video but its rules don't seem to match your post. Namely that in the video you give separate pieces to designate forest/hill/grass tiles whereas your post designates the entire board based on each tile's color set.

Related to this question is your optional rule would also not fully function since only 2 colors are ever on the corners of a 91 square hexagonal grid i.e. forest and grass, or forest and hill, or even grass and hill - meaning a forest piece is still stuck on forest.

ETA - OK I skimmed through the thread to figure it out. I guess video was old compared to post. However I definitely prefer the video implementation for terrain(although I haven't actually played heh). Checkered terrain is just cringe-worthy for me, maybe if the terrain were grouped in sensical ways it would be acceptable: blue arranged as a river or lake[center area of stratego has 2 lakes], red as hills, green as grassland. Alternatively they could be zones, green/red for the 2 opposing kingdoms and blue as the neutral zone.

IDK... what is the exact quote mentioning the colors?

2) I can't tell from your wording if pieces can turn in one move (like a crossbowman moving 2 spaces in one direction, then his third space in a different direction). Also if a light or heavy horse can do a normal movement on the same turn as its bonus orthogonal movement.

3) I assume bearing means "able to reach target that turn" so if a Player2 unit was blocking the path the Player1 unit would not have "bearing", is that correct?

4) For promotions, is it for example that Player1 can promote a rabble when Player1 loses a tier 2 unit, or is it when Player1 captures a tier2 unit from Player2?

Overall looks pretty cool and would definitely want to try it - even if the terrain/color set up doesn't match the book "lore" (I'd try with the 6/player terrain pieces).

[MikeL]

I have a few questions.

1) I watched your video but its rules don't seem to match your post. Namely that in the video you give separate pieces to designate forest/hill/grass tiles whereas your post designates the entire board based on each tile's color set.

Related to this question is your optional rule would also not fully function since only 2 colors are ever on the corners of a 91 square hexagonal grid i.e. forest and grass, or forest and hill, or even grass and hill - meaning a forest piece is still stuck on forest.

ETA - OK I skimmed through the thread to figure it out. I guess video was old compared to post. However I definitely prefer the video implementation for terrain(although I haven't actually played heh). Checkered terrain is just cringe-worthy for me, maybe if the terrain were grouped in sensical ways it would be acceptable: blue arranged as a river or lake[center area of stratego has 2 lakes], red as hills, green as grassland. Alternatively they could be zones, green/red for the 2 opposing kingdoms and blue as the neutral zone.

IDK... what is the exact quote mentioning the colors?

2) I can't tell from your wording if pieces can turn in one move (like a crossbowman moving 2 spaces in one direction, then his third space in a different direction). Also if a light or heavy horse can do a normal movement on the same turn as its bonus orthogonal movement.

3) I assume bearing means "able to reach target that turn" so if a Player2 unit was blocking the path the Player1 unit would not have "bearing", is that correct?

4) For promotions, is it for example that Player1 can promote a rabble when Player1 loses a tier 2 unit, or is it when Player1 captures a tier2 unit from Player2?

Overall looks pretty cool and would definitely want to try it - even if the terrain/color set up doesn't match the book "lore" (I'd try with the 6/player terrain pieces).

1) Aha, you figured it out - yes the video is older and the version of rules on the forum is newer (complete with checkered terrain which I also am not a fan of and am just about ready to throw out) - it was inspired by the very first quote in AFFC that mentions Cyvasse, but for some reason wasn't included in the list of quotes I had been working from. I should revert the rules back but I wanted to see how people responded. It's because of this quote that we know that the board has 3 colours of squares, which was what made us decide on a hex grid board in the first place - a square grid only has squares of 2 colours.

In the AFFC chapter "The Soiled Knight", we read:

"Myrcella had taken to the Dornish food as quick as she had to her Dornish prince, and from time to time Ser Arys would try a dish or two to please her. The food seared his mouth and made him gasp for wine, and burned even worse coming out than it did going in. His little princess loved it though.

He had left her in her chambers, bent over a gaming table opposite Prince Trystane, pushing ornate pieces across squares of jade and carnelian and lapis lazuli. Myrcella's full lips had been slightly parted, her green eyes narrowed with concentration. Cyvasse, the game was called. It had come to the Planky Town on a trading galley from Volantis, and the orphans had spread it up and down the Greenblood. The Dornish court was mad for it.

Ser Arys found it just maddening. There were ten different pieces, each with its own attributes and powers, and the board would change from game to game, depending on how the players arrayed their home squares. Prince Trystane had taken to the game at once, and Myrcella had learned it so she could play with him."

So yes, the way I figure it is that some Cyvasse sets are made of exotic gems, with pieces of white marble and onyx, but others are made of wood. And so in today's age it could be made with 3D printed plastic or anything you like really :) Just like chess.

2) - no, I never meant for crossbows/trebuchets to be able to change direction mid move. Not sure how you're interpreting "normal" horse movement versus "bonus movement". Have I written about it twice? What I have in the rules is: Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)

3) Yes that's correct - no piece (not even a dragon) can move through another piece without taking it. The dragon has a range of 4 spaces which means it can change directions between each step (to go "around" an opponent piece if desired). The horses only change direction because they are following the circle around one of the fortresses.

4) the first option - when player 1 loses a tier 2 unit, it can promote. Think of it as if it was a physical board with physical pieces: if the white light horse piece is captured and taken off the board, and then the white player moves a rabble piece into the fortress, the white player can then swap that rabble piece for the previously captured light horse piece. Basically you can never have more of any piece than however many pieces the set comes with.

Hope that helps,

[Kienn]

2) - no, I never meant for crossbows/trebuchets to be able to change direction mid move. Not sure how you're interpreting "normal" horse movement versus "bonus movement". Have I written about it twice? What I have in the rules is: Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)

Hope that helps,

Sorry for the bonus movement I meant the type of movement the horses gain when a fortress is ruined. Can a horse thereafter move orthogonally 1 in addition to its usual movement or does it take a turn just to do the orthogonal move.

[MikeL]

Sorry for the bonus movement I meant the type of movement the horses gain when a fortress is ruined. Can a horse thereafter move orthogonally 1 in addition to its usual movement or does it take a turn just to do the orthogonal move.

Heh - that would make the horses *more* powerful after a fortress was ruined. No each horse piece can either move around the remaining fortress *or* one space orthogonally like a rabble.

[Kienn]

Heh - that would make the horses *more* powerful after a fortress was ruined. No each horse piece can either move around the remaining fortress *or* one space orthogonally like a rabble.

Well I think that's arguable since they lose a lot of mobility by losing the second set of concentric hexagons. Maybe the team that still has a fortress would be able to do both...

Second matter... What if both fortresses are dead?

I gotta buy a couple chess sets, find a friend that actually wants to play and try a few games heh...

[MikeL]

Well I think that's arguable since they lose a lot of mobility by losing the second set of concentric hexagons. Maybe the team that still has a fortress would be able to do both...

Second matter... What if both fortresses are dead?

I gotta buy a couple chess sets, find a friend that actually wants to play and try a few games heh...

The thought I've had just now is that the player who ruins a fortress (assuming a physical board) takes the fortress tile off the board and places it beside one of the six corners - and this corner then becomes one of the two centres of rotation for the horse pieces.

[MikeL]

I've ordered my 3d printed cyvasse set from Shapeways :) It's not cheap to 3D print anything this big (the board is 28cm across!), but hopefully will make my future video explaining the rules that much easier to understand.

You may want to wait a few weeks so I can have a look at the results of the print and tweak it a bit if it needs it. But it's available to buy now.

[Kienn]

I've ordered my 3d printed cyvasse set from Shapeways :) It's not cheap to 3D print anything this big (the board is 28cm across!), but hopefully will make my future video explaining the rules that much easier to understand.

You may want to wait a few weeks so I can have a look at the results of the print and tweak it a bit if it needs it. But it's available to buy now.

Hmm, I might actually buy that if it does turn out to work well... The middle part of the trebs spins around it looks like?