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Complete Cyvasse Rules

Cyvasse Game of thrones rules

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#301 MikeL

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 05:18 AM

Hi everyone,

My new promo video for my 3D printed Cyvasse set is up on youtube :) Check it out!

https://www.youtube....h?v=CazRgEbewJc



#302 MikeL

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:19 AM

Now it's been written up on CNET :)

http://www.cnet.com/...oard-game-geek/



#303 watson98

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:22 AM

Does anyone know if there is a Cyvasse playing club?



#304 MikeL

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 02:15 AM

Does anyone know if there is a Cyvasse playing club?

Not yet - I'm helping Jonas Platte implement this set of rules in a web-based game at Cyvasse-online.com, and we've set up a Facebook page here (https://www.facebook...eOnline?fref=ts) so we can let people know when it's ready.



#305 MikeL

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:00 AM

Mikelepage's Cyvasse (Rules v5.0)

Inspired by George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

Published June 24th 2014

 

My 3D printed set is available on shapeways here: https://www.shapeway...Cyvasse Set&s=0

but this ruleset can still be played with my original set of icons (www.mikelepage.com/pieces2.docwhich can be glued to tokens as shown here (http://www.mikelepag...per_version.png)

 

George RR Martin has stated Chess, Blitzkrieg and Stratego as his inspiration for Cyvasse. In this variant: players take turns moving pieces in a manner similar to chess. The fate of the King is what decides the game. The board itself is a 91-square hexagonal grid (an element borrowed from Blitzkrieg), and players decide their initial set ups in secret behind a screen (an element borrowed from Stratego)

 

Terrain and Pieces

This variant of Cyvasse has 10 pieces with movement as follows:

Mountains (x6): are stationary and block movement of all pieces except Dragon.

Rabble (x6): can move 1 space in any direction orthogonally (in the direction of spaces which share a common edge).

King (x1): can move 1 space in any direction orthogonally.

Crossbows (x2) can move 3 spaces in any direction orthogonally.

Trebuchet (x2) can move as far as possible orthogonally.

Spears (x2) can move 2 spaces diagonally (in the direction of spaces that are the same colour).
Elephant (x2) can move as far as possible diagonally.

Light Horse (x2) can move 3 spaces "relative to fortress" (along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes the same number of spaces away from one fortress or the other).

Heavy Horse (x2) can move as far as possible "relative to fortress"
Dragon (x1) can move in any direction to a range of 4 squares (can jump mountains but cannot move "through" pieces).

There are also four terrain types (coloured tiles placed on the board at the beginning of the game):

Hill (x2): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet (i.e. orthogonally moving pieces)
Forest (x2): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant (i.e. diagonally moving pieces)
Grassland (x2): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse (i.e. "relative to fortress" moving pieces)
Fortress (x1 per player): gives advantage to all pieces except Dragon.

These are grouped into four tier levels as follows:

Tier 1: King, Rabble
Tier 2: Crossbows, Spears, Light Horse
Tier 3: Trebuchet, Elephant, Heavy Horse
Tier 4: Dragon

Capturing, Changes to "Effective" Tier level

A piece can always capture another piece of the same or lesser tier level. There are two factors which change the "effective" tier level and allow lesser ranked pieces to 1) attack higher rank pieces (flanking) or 2) defend against pieces of same rank (terrain).

1) Flanking plays make up much of the strategy in this variant of Cyvasse so this is where most of the complexity is. Flanking happens when you have 2 or more pieces with a bearing on a target piece. The attacking piece moves into the target square to capture the opponent piece and receives a effective increase in tier level because the other pieces "flank". For example: Two tier 3 pieces can capture a Dragon because the second tier 3 piece provides a temporary +1 improvement in tier. The same applies in a situation where two tier 2 pieces attack a tier 3 piece or two tier 1 pieces attack a tier 2 piece. Because each flanking piece of the same tier level as the attacking piece provides a +1 improvement, it is also possible for three tier 2 pieces to attack a Dragon, or for four tier 1 pieces to attack a Dragon.

The way pieces of different tier level interact in flanking is that each lower ranked flanking piece is worth half of a flanking piece from the tier above. So for example, a tier 3 piece and two tier 2 pieces can also capture a dragon because each lower ranked piece provides half the flanking power of the tier above it. Likewise a tier 3 piece, a tier 2 piece and two tier 1 pieces could also attack a dragon. The special ability of the King is to serve in a flanking play as an equal to the highest ranked piece in the attack. The highest ranked piece (or one of them, King included) must always be the one that moves to the target square.

2) Terrain provides a +1 improvement in tier level for defence only, and only as long as the piece is on it. A King in its fortress is therefore ranked tier 2. An Elephant on a forest tile (its "home" terrain) is ranked tier 4, but a trebuchet on a forest tile is only ranked tier 3. Unlike the other pieces, a Dragon does not receive any benefit from being in the fortress as it is already Tier 4.

Gameplay

Initial set up requires putting a screen across the centre row of squares so placement of pieces and tiles is done in secret. That leaves 40 "home" squares in which to place 25 pieces.
A King always starts in its fortress
Spears, Crossbows and Light Horse pieces are placed on Forest, Hill and Grassland tiles respectively.

All other pieces can be placed strategically as desired.
The dragon (the 26th piece) does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

Promotions:
The fortress can be used to promote any piece to a higher rank if that higher ranked piece has already been captured. If possible, this happens at the beginning of a players turn without counting as a turn itself. A rabble in the fortress can be promoted to any tier 2 piece which has been previously captured. A tier 2 piece can be promoted to its corresponding tier 3 piece (Crossbows to Trebuchet, Spears to Elephant, Light Horse to Heavy Horse), and any tier 3 piece may be promoted to King if this is done the turn immediately following the capture of the King. The Dragon piece can be neither promoted, nor replaced.

Ruining the Fortress:
If a player's fortress is occupied and cannot be retaken on the move immediately following the attack, the fortress is ruined and the fortress tile is removed from the board.  The player ruining the fortress places the fortress beside one of the corners of the board: Horse pieces now move relative to the remaining fortress or relative to this corner space.

 

End game:
The fate of the King is ultimately what decides the game:
Just as the fortress must be retaken on the very next move in order for it not to be ruined, the King must be replaced on the very next move for the game not to be lost. If the fortress is already ruined, or no tier 3 pieces are left/able to move to the fortress to be promoted, the game ends as soon as the King is captured.

Optional extra rules

Sea ports: Each of the 6 corners of the board are connected via the sea. Any piece that can move to one corner can move to either adjacent corner in that same move. If a fortress is placed on the edge of the board, it too counts as a sea port. The reason for this is to allow forest pieces (Spears/Elephants) to change the terrain that they are moving on.

 

Open setup: rather than placing a screen across the board at the beginning of the game, players take turns placing pieces (in no set order) for what will become their opening array. 

Praise for the game:
"Just played my first two games of cyvasse. The first took twenty minutes, the second nearly three hours. My opinion? Compellingly addictive once the rules are grasped"... Xin

My advice:
Grab a friend a try a few games. All the moves become quite intuitive after a while. Make use of terrain and flanking. Don't bring out your dragon too early! Happy playing!


Edited by MikeL, 24 June 2014 - 03:04 AM.


#306 CapAp

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

Hi! I created an account here just because I read an article about this and am enamored.

 

First question: why are Mountains pieces instead of terrain types like Hills and Grasslands?



#307 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:49 AM

Hi! I created an account here just because I read an article about this and am enamored.

 

First question: why are Mountains pieces instead of terrain types like Hills and Grasslands?

They aren't pieces in Martinworld. In ADWD the ten pieces are named: king, dragon, elephant, heavy horse, light horse, spearmen, catapult, trebuchet, rabble, crossbowmen.



#308 Talking Hodor

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:58 AM

There's a brilliant little program that lets you program your own board games, Zillions of Games.  A while back I actually programmed a version of Cyvasse that's fully playable if you have Zillions.

 

Here's the link.

 

http://www.zillions-...submissions.cgi - then type 'Cyvasse' in the search field.  I made two variants - a larger one and a smaller one, depending on how punishing a game you want to play.  Both come with the one .zrf file you download.



#309 MikeL

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:21 AM

Hi! I created an account here just because I read an article about this and am enamored.

 

First question: why are Mountains pieces instead of terrain types like Hills and Grasslands?

Wow that's great :) There's also lots of cool stuff on this site so enjoy!

The quick answer to that question is that it made intuitive sense to me that mountains should block the movement of other pieces, but other terrain needs to be such that pieces can land on them.  However, the only real answer is "historical reasons" (I won't ask you to read the whole thread, but it's all in there).  Actually, the game is perfectly playable if you don't use terrain tiles at all (no hill, forest or grassland), but use the mountains pieces.  There was a time when mountains were the only terrain we knew of, and everything that wasn't the board was in the form of a piece, but then we heard that GRRM had read a Tyrion chapter from The Winds of Winter at a convention that mentioned a "hill" tile, so the current setup was developed.
 

As for "Catapult" being the 10th piece instead of Mountain, I've made the point previously and elsewhere that I'm pretty sure GRRM intended "Catapult" and "Trebuchet" to be the same piece (like he's spoken in interviews about a horse that changes sex between books, or the character that changes eye colour).  I say that because he's consistently referred to "Crossbowmen" and "Spearmen" pieces when mentioning a "Catapult" piece, whereas when he mentions a "Trebuchet" piece, he's talking about "Crossbows" and "Spears" pieces.  Clearly "Crossbowmen" and "Crossbows" pieces are meant to be the same thing, as are "Spearmen" and "Spears" pieces, so why distinguish between "Trebuchet and "Catapult"?  I decided to go with the gender neutral variants, which is why I've got a Trebuchet piece but no Catapult.

 

Also, I have yet to see another variant of Cyvasse that makes a clear distinction between the abilities of Catapults and Trebuchets (they are both siege weapons, and no historical battle I'm aware of ever had both in use at the same time), so instead I've settled on the nice symmetry that appears when you consider Heavy Horse a stronger version of a Light Horse piece, Elephant a stronger version of a Spears piece, and Trebuchet a stronger version of a Crossbow piece.  It simplifies things a lot.


Edited by MikeL, 27 June 2014 - 03:30 AM.


#310 MikeL

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:40 AM

They aren't pieces in Martinworld. In ADWD the ten pieces are named: king, dragon, elephant, heavy horse, light horse, spearmen, catapult, trebuchet, rabble, crossbowmen.

You know, Mountains are actually the Cyvasse objects most often mentioned in the books.  It's only your preconceived idea that they can't be a piece:

http://asoiaf.wester...ules/?p=3407508

So for me it was a case of figuring out why there seemed to be 11 named pieces when he said there were only 10.  That's what led me to consolidating Trebuchet and Catapult.



#311 MikeL

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 03:44 AM

There's a brilliant little program that lets you program your own board games, Zillions of Games.  A while back I actually programmed a version of Cyvasse that's fully playable if you have Zillions.

 

Here's the link.

 

http://www.zillions-...submissions.cgi - then type 'Cyvasse' in the search field.  I made two variants - a larger one and a smaller one, depending on how punishing a game you want to play.  Both come with the one .zrf file you download.

I've heard it mentioned before, but I have no programming skills so I'm leaving it to Jonas Platte to make cyvasse-online.com the best it can be.  Best of luck to you mate: but I still like my version better ;)



#312 MikeL

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:23 AM

I recently bought "Dangerous Women", the new collection of short stories by various authors, including GRRM's "The Princess and the Queen."  Definitely worth a read for tiding yourself over until TWOW, and it makes me want to read the whole series again.  I'll wait though:  I've promised myself I will hold off reading again until a release date for TWOW is announced - then I hope to take it at a somewhat more leisurely pace than the first two times I've read ASOIAF, and aim to time it so I can move straight onto the next book.

There's no mention of Cyvasse in The Princess and the Queen (set 170 years before ASOIAF), but it does give a much clearer indication of the relative power of a Dragon on the battlefield - even small Dragons such as Drogon will be during TWOW.  

Two thoughts came to me while reading that made me even happier about the flanking rules in my version of Cyvasse (without getting too spoilery about the Princess and the Queen - I'll generalise): Firstly, the Dragon is "the most powerful piece in the game" and I have no problem defending the multiple "tier levels" of the pieces - the dominance of the Dragon in strength and movement is absolutely reflected on the Cyvasse board, but this is balanced by the fact that there is only one, and it is the only piece on the board that cannot be replaced.  

Secondly without saying too much, the fact that four Rabble pieces can flank each other in order kill a Dragon in the game ties in beautifully with TPATQ.  In the first (instruction) video I produced, I mentioned this and said that it was "obviously" an unlikely scenario, however in my last game it actually was a useful strategic tool: I was keeping four rabble next to the fortress so that they might be promoted easily, and because of that, my fortress was protected from ruin by the opposition Dragon (or any other piece), while still freeing up my higher tier pieces for other attacks/defence.

My friend and I have been experimenting, with very different outcomes each and every game, and at this point I'm not sure there is really any "right" way to play the game, which is something that I hoped for, but wasn't sure would be possible.  It just blows my mind and I'm excited to see what people do once the online version is working! 



#313 MikeL

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:49 AM

For those of you who want to learn, cyvasse-online.com is now operational.  It's still a work in progress, and some of the nice-to-have features are still in development, but the game works!  You need a browser that runs webgl (so chrome or firefox work), and the way it works is that you start a private game, then copy that link to the person you want to play, and they play as the opposite colour.  

My game last night with web app developer Jonas Platte lasted 2 hours and 30 minutes :) and the gameplay was awesome all the way through (I wish I had taken a screen recording of the whole thing: there were so many twists and turns, because we're both becoming better players).  The one thing that blew my mind was that we actually got to a point where he could have said "Your King is trapped, death in four." and it would have made perfect sense!  Unfortunately for him, he then made a mistake (I lucked out) which completely changed the course of the game.

My Skype name is mike_lepage, so add me, and if you see me online, let's play a game!



#314 Firiel Hiren

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:12 AM

This is excellent work and I just have a couple of questions that I could not find the reasoning for in the thread.

1) Why did you decide that the 3 colored tiles were fixed in position? It was my interpretation of the wording in the text that the carnelian, jade and lapis tiles were also arranged. I felt that this was why it was stressed that "the board would change from game to game, depending on how the players arranged their home squares."

If the board looked the same from game to game but the pieces changed that would hardly be remarkable and I think it would be stated that way not how it is.

2) Why did you decide to add a fortress as an 11th piece? It seems clear that there are 10 pieces and that each side has one dragon as well as one king. If there was an 11th piece that consisted of one I imagine it would still be included in the total count. My interpretation of the fortress was that it was an accepted factor of game play that each side would set up a fortress structure out of existing tiles to protect the king not that it was a separate piece.

3) I concur with the inclusion of mountains as fixed pieces and the trebuchet being the same as a catapult as it is a sort of catapult but I find then the tiles being associated with topography to be redundant and the colors to be applied in a different manner than they are used in the text.

In the text, Red seems to be associated with mountains, deserts, and even a river and lake. Green describes streams, a sea, and land formations. Blue has far less reference to any topography, I can only find the Sapphire Isle and two rivers.

It would seem that the colors are more likely to be related to elemental forces or some other characteristic of the piece than topography. It could even be that for example Black pieces get a larger bonus on red squares and White pieces get larger bonus from blue squares.

There is reference for a Jade set of pieces, which is being sold alongside ivory so I am not sure about how that would work if the squares remain red, blue and green.

I am interested in the colors and their use so my research led me here to see how those tiles are being applied to the game. Interesting to see all the interpretations! :)

#315 Happy Ent

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:28 AM

This is a brilliant project!



#316 the1nk

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:53 PM

For those of you who want to learn, cyvasse-online.com is now operational.  It's still a work in progress, and some of the nice-to-have features are still in development, but the game works!  You need a browser that runs webgl (so chrome or firefox work), and the way it works is that you start a private game, then copy that link to the person you want to play, and they play as the opposite colour.  

My game last night with web app developer Jonas Platte lasted 2 hours and 30 minutes :) and the gameplay was awesome all the way through (I wish I had taken a screen recording of the whole thing: there were so many twists and turns, because we're both becoming better players).  The one thing that blew my mind was that we actually got to a point where he could have said "Your King is trapped, death in four." and it would have made perfect sense!  Unfortunately for him, he then made a mistake (I lucked out) which completely changed the course of the game.

My Skype name is mike_lepage, so add me, and if you see me online, let's play a game!

 

Mike,

  Quick question. Are there any anti-cheese rules for the mountains? Like preventing a player from encircling their king with a wall of them, or cornering off a section of the map?

 

  I didn't see a mention of this, but was just curious. Thanks!



#317 Jonas Platte

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:03 PM

Quick question. Are there any anti-cheese rules for the mountains? Like preventing a player from encircling their king with a wall of them, or cornering off a section of the map?
 
  I didn't see a mention of this, but was just curious. Thanks!


Hi, cyvasse-online.com developer here ;)

In the online game there are no such rules (and I am pretty sure Mike didn't intend any, but I assume he'll comment himself).

In my opinion, if the king is 'isolated' through mountains all around him, there are still enough opportunities to attack (dragon, spears or elephant on the same tile color), so this kind of rule isn't necessary.

#318 CharlesW

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

Cool, thank you.



#319 Kienn

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 04:00 PM

Ah weird, I've been playing that elephants/spears can't go move if its path is flanked on both sides by mountains.

#320 the1nk

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:38 PM

Hi, cyvasse-online.com developer here ;)

In the online game there are no such rules (and I am pretty sure Mike didn't intend any, but I assume he'll comment himself).

In my opinion, if the king is 'isolated' through mountains all around him, there are still enough opportunities to attack (dragon, spears or elephant on the same tile color), so this kind of rule isn't necessary.

 

Jonas, nice to hear from you!

 

I've a quick question in regards to the dragon's movement when it's being drawn in the middle of a game. Looking at the rules, it states that- 

 

Mikelepage's Cyvasse (Rules v5.0)

...

The dragon (the 26th piece) does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

...

On this special move, does the same logic apply for stepping over pieces? As in, if the fortress is occupied by a same-player piece, and is surrounded by same-player pieces, the dragon has no-where to come into and cannot be brought out? Or instead, is the whole area (every hex within 4 steps of the fortress) available to be landed on?

 

The first scenario makes more sense if you're assuming the dragon is hiding beneath the fortress. The second, if the dragon is high above the fortress and is going to fall like a comet on its prey. >.>

 

My main concern here is that in the midst of the carnage, I don't think the dragon would be able to "come out" very quickly if the first scenario is true, while the dragon could land almost anywhere on the board in the second scenario.

 

What do you think?





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