Complete Cyvasse Rules

[MikeL]

Hi Harper. Thanks :) As far as I know he just got really busy and stopped posting about Cyvasse. Since I didn't stop making tweaks to the rules and I've now deviated quite a lot since the last time he gave input I wouldn't be surprised if he gave up on working with me, but it's nothing personal on my part. I've not checked his dropbox folder since before his last post so that's news to me.

That said I've learnt with attempting my own version that this programming stuff is hard! :) And the physical version is expensive. I just think getting an web playable version together is going to be the trigger that helps whichever version become *the* version that people think of as Cyvasse.

[Brainth]

I've been reading this topic (took me more than 2 weeks to do it) and this game is amazing, I'd love to see it been released as the official cyvasse. You guys are incredible, and I'm available for anything you need, although I'm just 16 years old so I'm not very good at programming

[mikelepage]

Hey it's MikeL - I'm having some major issues signing in with twitter, so here I am posting as my doppelganger account.

Firstly - thanks Brainth! That's some serious effort! Basically you can help by spreading the word and playing the game. You know the expression "history is written by the winners", well last time I counted there are about 6 different versions of Cyvasse on the web right now, and chances are it will be one of them that actually appears in the tv series when they get that far, so I'd like it to be this one ;) Some of the others I quite like, but most of them (imo) either fall into the trap of being another chess variant, or have arbitrary rules in order to be "realistic" and thereby miss the point of what makes chess so good (it's stylised warfare).

I've finally mocked up a physical set and played a couple of games with another chess player who is also an ASOIAF fan and he's totally addicted now :) We played one game that lasted for 3 hours (!) before he finally beat me, and the way the piece movement/terrain/promotion rules work is even better than I could have hoped. For instance, it really does matter when you "bring your dragon out" (the first game we suffered mutual dragon KOs while we were still figuring out how to use them). In the second game I nearly managed to trap his dragon with Trebuchets (their movement makes them the best/easiest piece to try to do this), but he managed to wiggle out of it and ended up winning because my dragon was then out of position. For the elephant/spear combo it's really important which squares you put them on to start with (since they only move on squares of one colour like bishops), especially if your opponent surrounds their fortress with mountains (still not sure if this is actually a good idea, but it's one way to play) because the elephants can move between mountains "through the passes" ;) It makes them the best piece to get to a mountain fortress. Also, we had a couple of heavy/light horse moves that came out of nowhere and completely changed the course of the game. It takes a game or two to get the hang of it, but all in all I'm *really* happy with it!

I used the piece icons I created for my web game (still in progress) so if you download the file here www.mikelepage.com/pieces2.doc and print it out, stick the pieces and board to card of some kind to give it some stiffness, then you cut them out and stick them to some kind of token that you can grab onto, you come up with something like this:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/vlmrh.jpg

Notice that the board is too big for A4 (which is the paper size that I have handy), so I had to print out two copies and overlap them - but the whole image is there in the word doc so if you have larger pieces of paper you can just print it out on one sheet. It needs to be that big or else it gets a bit annoying trying to pick the pieces up.

We played with just a couple of rule variations from what I've said in the video:

Firstly we decided that trebuchets can't jump mountains - only dragons can. No piece can jump other pieces, so the only way to block a dragon is with a row of pieces.

Secondly, we found it pretty intuitive to let every piece be capable of flanking for any other piece. Each piece of the same tier level adds +1 to the attack, but having one tier 3 and two tier 2s was equivalent to two tier 3s (or alternatively, one tier 3, one tier 2 and two tier 1s was also equivalent to two tier 3s).

I'll do a video demo with the real set next time we play.

Happy Cyvasse playing everyone!

[Brainth]

I think (and hope) that they will use this cyvasse, as when I searched in google, the first link was this site.

PD: hope you get your account back

[Brainth]

Also, could you post the rules with the last update? I want to explain the game to others and I'm not very good at it, so the only way to do it is with the rules written

[AegonSnow]

IIRC Cyvasse is based on Tafl.

[tydides]

this is beautiful. Im going to teach my friends how to play this. Without telling them its origin, of course. Kind of extremely nerdy.

[mikelepage]

IIRC Cyvasse is based on Tafl.

Weird, I can't get in from either my laptop, work computer or phone. Oh well this is me!

Well that was educational: in all my reading I had never come across Tafl, only Chaturanga. According to wikipedia, Tafl always had square grid boards, a 2:1 ratio of spaces to opening pieces, and a central "fist" arrangement. While Chess corresponds to the first two rules, and Stratego at least has the first one, Blitzkrieg has none, and GRRM has stated previously in interviews that these three were his main influences. In the youtube video I explain how I've incorporated each of those influences into the current game. Now to put the rules in written form...

[mikelepage]

Cyvasse (Rules by MikeL v4.2)

Inspired by George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

George RR Martin has stated Chess, Blitzkrieg and Stratego as his inspiration for Cyvasse. In this variant: players take turns moving pieces in a manner similar to chess. The fate of the King is what decides the game. The board itself is a 91-square hexagonal grid (an element borrowed from Blitzkrieg), and players decide their initial set ups in secret behind a screen (an element borrowed from Stratego)

Download this www.mikelepage.com/pieces2.doc

Assemble it to look something like this http://www.freeimage...loads/vlmrh.jpg

(These are assets from the webgame I'm working on)

This variant of Cyvasse has 10 pieces with movement as follows:

Stationary: Mountains (x6) (blocks movement of all pieces but Dragon)

Move any direction orthogonally (adjacent squares): 1 square for Rabble (x6) and King (x1)

Move any direction orthogonally: 3 squares for Crossbows (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Trebuchet (x2)

Move any direction diagonally (squares of same colour): 2 squares for Spears (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Elephant (x2)

Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)

Move any direction to a range of 4 squares: Dragon (x1)

There are also four terrain types (coloured tiles placed on the board at the beginning of the game):

Hill (x2 per player): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet

Forest (x2 per player): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant

Grassland (x2 per player): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse

Fortress (x1 per player): gives advantage to all pieces.

The pieces are grouped into four tier levels as follows:

Tier 1: King, Rabble

Tier 2: Crossbows, Spears, Light Horse

Tier 3: Trebuchet, Elephant, Heavy Horse

Tier 4: Dragon

A piece can always capture another piece of the same or lesser tier level. There are two factors which change the "effective" tier level and allow lesser ranked pieces to 1) attack higher rank pieces (flanking) or 2) defend against pieces of same rank (terrain).

1) Flanking plays make up much of the strategy in this variant of Cyvasse so this is where most of the complexity is. Flanking happens when you have 2 or more pieces with a bearing on a target piece. The attacking piece moves into the target square to capture the opponent piece and receives a effective increase in tier level because the other pieces "flank". For example: Two tier 3 pieces can capture a Dragon because the second tier 3 piece provides a temporary +1 improvement in tier. The same applies in a situation where two tier 2 pieces attack a tier 3 piece or two tier 1 pieces attack a tier 2 piece. Because each flanking piece of the same tier level as the attacking piece provides a +1 improvement, it is also possible for three tier 2 pieces to attack a Dragon, or for four tier 1 pieces to attack a Dragon.

The way pieces of different tier level interact in flanking is that each lower ranked flanking piece is worth half of a flanking piece from the tier above. So for example, a tier 3 piece and two tier 2 pieces can also capture a dragon because each lower ranked piece provides half the flanking power of the tier above it. Likewise a tier 3 piece, a tier 2 piece and two tier 1 pieces could also attack a dragon. The special ability of the King is to serve in a flanking play as an equal to the highest ranked piece in the attack. The highest ranked piece (or one of them) must always be the one that moves to the target square.

2) Terrain provides a +1 improvement in tier level for defence, but only as long as the piece is on it. A King in its fortress is therefore ranked tier 2. An Elephant on a forest tile (its "home" terrain) is ranked tier 4, but a trebuchet on a forest tile is only ranked tier 3. Unlike the other pieces, a Dragon does not receive any benefit from being in the fortress as it is already Tier 4.

Initial set up requires putting a screen across the centre row of squares so placement of pieces and tiles is done in secret. That leaves 40 "home" squares in which to place 25 pieces.

A King always starts in its fortress

The two Crossbows always start on the two hill tiles

The two Spears always start on the two forest tiles

The two Light Horses always start on the two grassland tiles.

All other pieces can be placed strategically as desired.

The dragon does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

Ruining the Fortress:

If a player's fortress is occupied and cannot be retaken on the move immediately following the attack, the fortress is ruined and the fortress tile is removed from the board. All horse pieces can move relative to the only remaining fortress, and that player can no longer promote pieces.

Promotions:

The fortress can be used to promote any piece to a higher rank if that higher ranked piece has already been captured and if possible, this happens at the beginning of a players turn without counting as a turn itself. A rabble in the fortress can be promoted to any tier 2 piece. A tier 2 piece can be promoted to its corresponding tier 3 piece (Crossbows to Trebuchet, Spears to Elephant, Light Horse to Heavy Horse), and any tier 3 piece may be promoted to King if this is done the turn immediately following the capture of the King. The Dragon piece can be neither promoted, nor replaced.

End game:

The fate of the King is ultimately what decides the game:

Just as the fortress must be retaken on the very next move in order for it not to be ruined, the King must be replaced on the very next move for the game not to be lost. If the fortress is already ruined, or no tier 3 pieces are left/able to move to the fortress to be promoted, the game ends as soon as the King is captured.

Optional extra rule:

Sea ports: Each of the 6 corners of the board are connected via the sea. Any piece that can move to one corner can move to either adjacent corner in that same move. If a fortress is placed on the edge of the board, it too counts as a sea port. The reason for this is to allow forest pieces (Spears/Elephants) to change the colour that they move on.

Praise for the game:

"Just played my first two games of cyvasse. The first took twenty minutes, the second nearly three hours. My opinion? Compellingly addictive once the rules are grasped"... Xin

My advice:

Grab a friend a try a few games. All the moves become quite intuitive after a while. Happy playing!

[Brainth]

I like it, but I'm not sure about horse only been able to move around 1 fortress when the other one is ruined, that makes them nearly useless

[KJR the PR of TaFW]

welcome to the forum, great first post

[MikeL]

welcome to the forum, great first post

Haha thanks mate, but it was me the whole time.

[MikeL]

I like it, but I'm not sure about horse only been able to move around 1 fortress when the other one is ruined, that makes them nearly useless

Yeah I'm not sure as it has yet to actually happen in a game I've played (all the horses had been captured, or the king was still in the fortress so it was a moot point): all I can say is that it affects both players equally.

[Brainth]

You said that to capture a dragon inside a fortress you would need 3 tier 3 pieces (+1 tier for every flanking piece that has the same tier) but I thought you needed 4 tier 3 pieces (you need 2 tier 4 pieces to kill a tier 5, and 1 tier 4 piece is equal to 2 tier 3 pieces). Although, this makes it almost impossible to kill. Maybe put 4 as maximum tier for any piece? This would still allow the dragon to kill anything inside the fortress.

[MikeL]

You said that to capture a dragon inside a fortress you would need 3 tier 3 pieces (+1 tier for every flanking piece that has the same tier) but I thought you needed 4 tier 3 pieces (you need 2 tier 4 pieces to kill a tier 5, and 1 tier 4 piece is equal to 2 tier 3 pieces). Although, this makes it almost impossible to kill. Maybe put 4 as maximum tier for any piece? This would still allow the dragon to kill anything inside the fortress.

That makes a hell of a lot of sense. I'll update the rules. Thanks.

[mikelepage]

Well drat.

Somewhere along the line of putting together the list of quotes about Cyvasse from the books that I have kept referring to, I missed the fact that the very first passage where Cyvasse is even mentioned (Soiled Knight chapter, AFFC, p210 in my edition) says that Cyvasse consists of "pushing ornate pieces across squares of jade and carnelian and lapis lazuli" (meaning green, red and blue fields))

I had always assumed that the rules of cyvasse website had just been creative when they chose those particular gemstones - but there it is, right in the text.

In retrospect, I see that the whole reason Zuberi went for the hex grid system was because of this quote, in addition to the fact that GRRM has mentioned Blitzkrieg as an influence. Those times I have looked into Blitzkrieg, I have noted that it is a hex-grid layout - but that the grid isn't itself checkered as we have it here. The checkerboard design - with three colours - is the basis for the hex-grid as we have it.

What I'm getting at here is that if we want to follow the books more precisely, then there really isn't any justification for players customising their terrain tiles as well as their pieces. The "terrain tiles" are the squares that form the playing surface. The mountain pieces are the only customisable bit of "terrain". That just leaves 10 different types of pieces for each player to place on the board at the start.

This does simplify things a bit further: It just means that the entire board is made up of a grid of Hill (Carnelian), Forest (Jade) and Water tiles (Lapis Lazuli). Only the placement of mountain pieces, or fortress changes the advantage/accessibility given by a particular square. The rules stay the same in this revision, except that we go back to horse pieces getting their advantage on water tiles, not grassland.

I've made up a new board to go with my pieces - the file is here:

http://www.mikelepage.com/pieces3.doc

It should look something ike this when assembled:

http://www.freeimage...loads/acdcq.jpg

And if everything works out, I'll be making up a new video to go with it on the weekend :)

[Pero the first of His name]

Ill try this interpretation of Cyvasse too. I really enjoyed one other.

[mikelepage]

Cyvasse (Rules by MikeL v4.3)

Inspired by George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire

George RR Martin has stated Chess, Blitzkrieg and Stratego as his inspiration for Cyvasse. In this variant: players take turns moving pieces in a manner similar to chess. The fate of the King is what decides the game. The board itself is a 91-square hexagonal grid (an element borrowed from Blitzkrieg), and players decide their initial set ups in secret behind a screen (an element borrowed from Stratego).

Download this:

www.mikelepage.com/pieces3.doc

Assemble it to look something like this:

http://www.freeimage...loads/acdcq.jpg

(These are assets from the webgame I'm working on)

Terrain and Pieces

Each player starts with one fortress tile, which they can place on any square in their half of the board, and this gives advantage to any piece placed on it (more on that later). The board surface itself is checkered in three colours, indicating three types of terrain which advantage certain pieces:

Hill (Carnelian/Red): gives advantage to Crossbows and Trebuchet

Forest (Jade/Green): gives advantage to Spears and Elephant

Water (Lapis Lazuli/Blue): gives advantage to Light Horse and Heavy Horse

Each player has 10 pieces with movement as follows (note: no piece may "jump" another):

Stationary: Mountains (x6) (blocks movement of all pieces but Dragon)

Move any direction orthogonally (adjacent squares): 1 square for Rabble (x6) and King (x1)

Move any direction orthogonally: 3 squares for Crossbows (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Trebuchet (x2)

Move any direction diagonally (squares of same terrain): 2 squares for Spears (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Elephant (x2)

Move relative to fortress (move must be along a hexagonal path that starts and finishes "x" squares away from one fortress or the other): 3 squares for Light Horse (x2), to edge of board or mountains for Heavy Horse (x2)

Move any direction to a range of 4 squares: Dragon (x1)

These are grouped into four tier levels as follows:

Tier 1: King, Rabble

Tier 2: Crossbows, Spears, Light Horse

Tier 3: Trebuchet, Elephant, Heavy Horse

Tier 4: Dragon

Capturing, Changes to "Effective" Tier level

A piece can always capture another piece of the same or lesser tier level. There are two factors which change the "effective" tier level and allow lesser ranked pieces to 1) attack higher rank pieces (flanking) or 2) defend against pieces of same rank (terrain).

1) Flanking plays make up much of the strategy in this variant of Cyvasse so this is where most of the complexity is. Flanking happens when you have 2 or more pieces with a bearing on a target piece. The attacking piece moves into the target square to capture the opponent piece and receives a effective increase in tier level because the other pieces "flank". For example: Two tier 3 pieces can capture a Dragon because the second tier 3 piece provides a temporary +1 improvement in tier. The same applies in a situation where two tier 2 pieces attack a tier 3 piece or two tier 1 pieces attack a tier 2 piece. Because each flanking piece of the same tier level as the attacking piece provides a +1 improvement, it is also possible for three tier 2 pieces to attack a Dragon, or for four tier 1 pieces to attack a Dragon.

The way pieces of different tier level interact in flanking is that each lower ranked flanking piece is worth half of a flanking piece from the tier above. So for example, a tier 3 piece and two tier 2 pieces can also capture a dragon because each lower ranked piece provides half the flanking power of the tier above it. Likewise a tier 3 piece, a tier 2 piece and two tier 1 pieces could also attack a dragon. The special ability of the King is to serve in a flanking play as an equal to the highest ranked piece in the attack. The highest ranked piece (or one of them, King included) must always be the one that moves to the target square.

2) Terrain provides a +1 improvement in tier level for defence only, and only as long as the piece is on it. A King in its fortress is therefore ranked tier 2. An Elephant on a forest tile (its "home" terrain) is ranked tier 4, but a trebuchet on a forest tile is only ranked tier 3. Unlike the other pieces, a Dragon does not receive any benefit from being in the fortress as it is already Tier 4.

Gameplay

Initial set up requires putting a screen across the centre row of squares so placement of pieces and tiles is done in secret. That leaves 40 "home" squares in which to place 25 pieces.

A King always starts in its fortress

All other pieces can be placed strategically as desired.

The dragon (the 26th piece) does not need to be placed on the board initially, but when it is "brought out", it must be placed within one move of home fortress (including inside the fortress). It may capture on this move.

Promotions:

The fortress can be used to promote any piece to a higher rank if that higher ranked piece has already been captured. If possible, this happens at the beginning of a players turn without counting as a turn itself. A rabble in the fortress can be promoted to any tier 2 piece which has been previously captured. A tier 2 piece can be promoted to its corresponding tier 3 piece (Crossbows to Trebuchet, Spears to Elephant, Light Horse to Heavy Horse), and any tier 3 piece may be promoted to King if this is done the turn immediately following the capture of the King. The Dragon piece can be neither promoted, nor replaced.

Ruining the Fortress:

If a player's fortress is occupied and cannot be retaken on the move immediately following the attack, the fortress is ruined and the fortress tile is removed from the board. All horse pieces can only move relative to the remaining fortress, but do gain the ability to move one square orthogonally (like rabble). That player can no longer promote pieces.

End game:

The fate of the King is ultimately what decides the game:

Just as the fortress must be retaken on the very next move in order for it not to be ruined, the King must be replaced on the very next move for the game not to be lost. If the fortress is already ruined, or no tier 3 pieces are left/able to move to the fortress to be promoted, the game ends as soon as the King is captured.

Extras

Optional extra rule:

Sea ports: Each of the 6 corners of the board are connected via the sea. Any piece that can move to one corner can move to either adjacent corner in that same move. If a fortress is placed on the edge of the board, it too counts as a sea port. The reason for this is to allow forest pieces (Spears/Elephants) to change the terrain that they are moving on.

Praise for the game:

"Just played my first two games of cyvasse. The first took twenty minutes, the second nearly three hours. My opinion? Compellingly addictive once the rules are grasped"... Xin

My advice:

Grab a friend a try a few games. All the moves become quite intuitive after a while. Make use of terrain and flanking. Don't bring out your dragon too early! Happy playing!

[muffinpoodle]

Sorry, I hope commenting on this topic is not flogging a dead horse after this period of silence.

I have to admit, I really didn't like some of the ideas you guys had at the start. Didn't get why mountains would be considered a piece and not terrain, for example, and hated flanking because - having never played a game that involved it - couldn't understand what the hell you guys meant when you were discussing it! :P But having skipped to the end of the thread and seen the latest version of the rules, I get it and I like it now. In theory it seems preferable to the other versions out there. I'm going to give it a try and let you know my impressions.

[mikelepage]

Hi Muffinpoodle,

I'll admit I've not been thinking about it much lately. Fair enough about the initial reaction to the flanking play - it is definitely a different concept which blew me away when Zuberi first came up with the idea. Now I see it as the thing which really differentiates it from other board games. The way I figure it, the game will always be "a hobby thing based on a series of books" unless it actually contributes something original to board games. I want it to be intriguing to people who have no idea what ASOIAF is.

What I have been doing lately is working on some horror stories instead :) It was because GRRM said in one of his blogs that any aspiring author should do short stories first, I wrote an ebook of them, based on my nightmares. Would love your support if you're interested in creepy dystopian fiction:

Reactions to Keep off the Grass include:

“I think Michael Le Page might be the original renaissance man: scientist, composer, cellist, dancer, and now author of extravagantly dystopian visions.” Also, "Refreshing, polished and effortless, this shits on Mr King", “Awesome mental imagery”, "Holy crap. These stories are bloody brilliant!" and “Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! F#$%ing genius!”

See the Goodreads page here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18779548-keep-off-the-grass
Like the Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/peas.make.pit.stop
Apple: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/keep-off-the-grass/id718432242?mt=11

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Keep-off-Grass-Michael-Page-ebook/dp/B00GG0TSSI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384760974&sr=8-1&keywords=Keep+off+the+Grass+michael+le+page

and it is up on many more ebook stores as well.
Thanks, MikeL