Procrastimancer Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Do yourself a favor and read The God of small things by Arundhati RoyA fine choice. It is a wonderful novel.That said, it has been over a month since our OP last posted. I wonder how he is getting on with expanding his literary horizons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Mika Waltari -They re-released Sinuhe? The older translation was called "The Egyptian" AFAIK, but I think they only did an abridged version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinuviel Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 They re-released Sinuhe? The older translation was called "The Egyptian" AFAIK, but I think they only did an abridged version?I read it in a Danish translation so I have no idea if it has been re-realised in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazydog7 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I tried to read "A History of Time" 100 times before I decided to just read for enjoyment. The only "old" book I was really every enjoyed reading was My Antonia. Its really a shame how we introduce kids to reading. If all you were ever assigned to read in school was Moby Dick, Scarlet Letter and Great Expectations its perfectly understandable that you would never read another book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Charles Duncan Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I can definitely feel your pain. I usually read certain genres myself. I started off with noir/action and horror, but I have expanding in to science fiction and fantasy. Martin convinced me to come to the dark side. Every time I try to read some form of literature I am always let down. The most recent being Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell. It seems with literature I will go through a couple pages and think "What the fuck did I just read?", or I spend so much time breaking down the sentence structure I'm taken away from the story. I cannot visualize a story when I have to think about what every other word means. I also felt like I was a bit retarded but either way I will stick to what is fun. It would be different if those magical words just made the story and characters became 3d because of the language. But I believe they don't and instead of making the story stronger I feel they want to show you the size of their brain instead of the size of their imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Balstroko Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I hate the notion that litterary fiction is mature and genre fiction is juvenile.I consider all fiction to be genre by default as it has to belong toa certain genre. A novel should stand on its own merits especially in terms of storytelling. Now I love books that offer a challenging read in which the reader needs to analyse the prose to grasp what is going on. However some novels divulge in pointless litterary wankery to masquerade their inability at storytelling, and to me the story is what comes first. A books greatness comes from its ability to captivate the reader not by a usage of obtuse words for the sake of being obscure.Anyways thats my take on it. Just read what you enjoy most and there's nothing wrong with reading fantasy/sci fi exclusively. Some people wish to be transported to a unique world when they read and are not interested in reading about stuff from our world. To each his/her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestripe Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Every time I try to read some form of literature I am always let down. The most recent being Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell.OMG, I LOVED The Cloud Atlas! Really, I did. I thought it was beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 It does seem that a writer who can truly get you to understand unlived experiences should be lauded.Yet I find myself often thinking the importance of literature is exaggerated, especially in this age of the algorithm.I guess I'm not sure what the reading of literature is meant to accomplish? As opposed to understanding statistics and economics, which seem like they'd make better citizens for democracies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Charles Duncan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 OMG, I LOVED The Cloud Atlas! Really, I did. I thought it was beautiful.To be fair I never made it past the first story. I understand why authors use language for the time period, but for me personally I couldn't grasp what they were saying and for some reason I had problems visualizing the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procrastimancer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I guess I'm not sure what the reading of literature is meant to accomplish?The same thing as reading any other genre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The same thing as reading any other genre?Entertainment? I guess there seems to be a moral weight to the idea of literature, as it is something we should be engaging with, that's what confuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cseresz.reborn Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I like language in a sense that it can be an amazing vehicle to create stories and convey information...Marcel Pagnol: My Father's Glory & My Mother's Castle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isalie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Some people like hockey, some people like football (soccer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yet I find myself often thinking the importance of literature is exaggerated, especially in this age of the algorithm.Could you expand on that. (I ask as an algorithms theorist, so I have an inkling of which direction your tacit argument goes, but I’d still like to hear it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 To be fair I never made it past the first story. I understand why authors use language for the time period, but for me personally I couldn't grasp what they were saying and for some reason I had problems visualizing the book.I don't think its exactly a huge stretch to say that Cloud Atlas is genre. I don't think its particularly impenetrble written either. That is, whatever it's flaws, they're not the flaws of 'literary' fiction in general, but of the particular book. There are literary books written in much clearer language, and there are genre books that are much less comprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It does seem that a writer who can truly get you to understand unlived experiences should be lauded.Yet I find myself often thinking the importance of literature is exaggerated, especially in this age of the algorithm.I guess I'm not sure what the reading of literature is meant to accomplish? As opposed to understanding statistics and economics, which seem like they'd make better citizens for democracies?Except algorthim can't say anything of importance. As for making better citizens for democracy, i think your on crack. I just read a study that the lack of arts in current univserity classrooms is more of a detriment than having statistics and economics is a positive. Your average economics class, or especially MBA programs as they are taught currently, really produce students that tend to think non-critically. On the surface you could say, no, no, they have to consider all of these variables. But what they are really doing is just thinking along the same lines that their program has taught them. Businesses are seeing students graduate and join the work force that can't think beyond basic algorithms.I could go into this more but i have a headache and i am going to bed. As a last note, i know about half a dozen MBA students, and almost universally i find them almost cookie cutter in terms of what they know and how they percieve what they know. Niccolas Taleb wrote two great books called Fooled by Randomness and Black Swan, that have really changed my opinion on how modern economics and statistics (at least in regards to trying to trend some sort of future forecast for the market) works. Seeing that evidence of his statements have piled pretty high as observable truth here in the last few years, i'm inclined to agree with him.Also, i just bought Umberto Eco, the Prague Cemetery. I bought it at the same time as i thought i would give Michale J. Sullivan a try. I have never had this question at Chapters before, but the guy pretty much questioned if i had the gumption to read Eco. Personally, while i find a solidly worded book can be enjoyable sometimes, the excsessive focus on verbosity and wordage detracts from what the book should really be about (the story), and instead tries to focus too much on the pedigree of the author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Except algorthim can't say anything of importance. As for making better citizens for democracy, i think your on crack. I just read a study that the lack of arts in current univserity classrooms is more of a detriment than having statistics and economics is a positive. Your average economics class, or especially MBA programs as they are taught currently, really produce students that tend to think non-critically.I'd be happy to see that study. The poor manner in which economics is taught (I'm guessing this is in American universities being American myself) doesn't invalidate the subject. I don't want to denigrate other nations or my own overly so, but in the US we have politicians unable to understand the depth of global finances being elected by an equally ignorant populace.Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying we should stop lessons in reading for subtext and examination of logical fallacies. I'm saying there is a huge overemphasis on canon works and general disregard for innumeracy (in the US at least). Reading to understand other people's lives is incredible valuable, but that empathy can come from a comic book as much, if not more so, than a classical work.ETA: removed double negative "I'm not saying we should not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Yea, but for all that a comic book can help us learn empathy, as you say, its ideas are limited by the nature of the medium. A book is more detailed, it forces you to think more. As for canon work, they are canon for a reason. That does not make them sacrosanct, but i think it builds something of a basis. I would not put much stock in comics, overall, despite my enjoyment of them. They have good ideas, and can make you think, but i would not call them pure literary. Even the graphic novels. As for politicians unable to stand global finances, i think part of the problem lies in that they are mostly all lawyers. I'm Canadian, and i lean left, so i would also add i think Republicans are ruining your country with crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think there is a question of accessibility, and I don't think the medium of comics is as limited as you say. The subject matter most often depicted (super heroes) might be a problem though. How does a book make you think more?Still, I think the most directly valuable gift of fiction is empathy and I don't think one needs canon works for that so much as one needs to read from a variety of perspectives. Personally I enjoy some literary works but I don't think I've climbed the moral high ground by doing so.I think canon works are canon for a wide variety of reasons, ranging from quality to habit, but the question is how valuable they are to ensuring employment compared to teaching computer programming or web design to kids. A former PA governor (Rendell) noted that some outsourcing could be redirected to kids coming from less privileged backgrounds in America if we shifted the curriculum.Though given the amount of data the Internet connected world has access to, I agree critical reading and examination of logical fallacies is definitely something that needs more focus in schools. I question the contribution canon literature has in that department however.ETA: "how valuable and they" to "how valuable they are", "(super heroes)", "How does a book make you think more?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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