Eddard’s mother, aka ‘Lady Stark’

[kissdbyfire]

When Bran says: "His father's mother's mother", is he referring to Ned or Rickard Stark?

Ned, isn't it? Bran's father's (Ned) mother's mother's...

:bang:

[Brandon the Epithetless]

When Bran says: "His father's mother's mother", is he referring to Ned or Rickard Stark?

This is not dialogue, it is bran's thoughts reminiscing about what Nan told him of the mountain clans.

His (Bran) father's (Ned) mother's (Rickard's wife) mother (Ms. Flint from the mountains)

[LordBloodraven]

Yep that's what I was thinking. So it's Ned's maternal grandmother who's a Flint.

[LordBloodraven]

Ned, isn't it? Bran's father's (Ned) mother's mother's...

:bang:

This is not dialogue, it is bran's thoughts reminiscing about what Nan told him of the mountain clans.

His (Bran) father's (Ned) mother's (Rickard's wife) mother (Ms. Flint from the mountains)

Yep that's what I was thinking. So it's Ned's maternal grandmother who's a Flint.

[St. Pelagius]

When was the last time the Boltons or the Skagosi clans rebelled against the Starks? Wasn't the current Lord Stark killed putting down the rebellion? Could his wife be the woman Bran sees asking for revenge?

[Brandon the Epithetless]

So now we have Eddard's mum who's half-Flint and half-'a probably Northern house that is notably surprising', I think now I prefer Rickard's mum (instead of Eddard's) for the girl-praying-for-avenging-son in Bran's stroll through time visions.

[bianca]

On a better thought, Ned's mother being half-Flint and half-skagosi has a potential for surprise and would be nicely tied into the story, now that we're pretty sure Rickon is in Skagos.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

When was the last time the Boltons or the Skagosi clans rebelled against the Starks? Wasn't the current Lord Stark killed putting down the rebellion? Could his wife be the woman Bran sees asking for revenge?

Well the popular theory is that the visions are in reverse chronological order:

1st was Ned

2nd was dueling boy and girl (popularly interpreted as Lyanna kicking Benjen's ass)

3rd was girl-praying-for-avenging-son

4th was tall knight making out with girl (popularly interpreted as Nan and Duncan the Tall) which would place this at the time of the planned 4th D&E story [c. 88-89 years before AGOT]

The Skagosi Rebellion (around 100 years ago) is farther back the timeline.

It is most likely that 3rd Vision occured in Edwyle's reign Ned's granddaddy.

[St. Pelagius]

If it is Rickard's mum asking for revenge, then there's a possibility that the reason why could show up in the next D&E story.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

On a better thought, Ned's mother being half-Flint and half-skagosi has a potential for surprise and would be nicely tied into the story, now that we're pretty sure Rickon is in Skagos.

I like half-Skagosi too, I also like Half-Reed. I remember in the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree that the wolf-maid immediately recognized Howland as a crannogman when he was being beat up by the squires I think she said something like 'Hey that's my father's bannerman your beating up!'. I'm under the impression that crannogmen rarely visit Winterfell even for Harvest feasts and Lyanna would have had limited to no contact with them.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

If it is Rickard's mum asking for revenge, then there's a possibility that the reason why could show up in the next D&E story.

Also a possible motivation for Rickard's Southron ambitions as someone else pointed out up-thread.

[kissdbyfire]

Very interesting possibilities. I still want the prayer to the old gods asking for vengeance to be connected with the Stark children getting the direwolves... :eek:

[Queensmoot]

We really get no description of the woman other than that she's heavily pregnant. Is she even a Stark? Perhaps she is the girl slender as a spear years later, or someone else from the Dunk/ Old Nan/ Hodor family.

We'll probably know more about the vengeance in the next Dunk and Egg tale, but its fun to speculate. The time distance between the vision of Eddard and the vision of Lyanna and Benjen could have been somewhere between 10 and 15 years. He has several more visions quickly before focusing on her, so it feels like the pregnant woman is closer to the girl and knight than to Lyanna and Benjen. If the visions are roughly equi-distant, or at least speed up exponentially, the pregnant woman could be as little as 10-15 years after the slender girl and tall knight. I'd guess the visions are speeding up exponentially though, so more likely 25-30 years after the girl and knight.

Going off the Tower of the Hand timelines, Dunk probably is in Winterfell 209-210-ish. So, the pregnant woman would likely be during Aegon's reign. Maybe something to do with the Blackfyre rebellion? Or maybe it was later on and had something to do with Summerhall? Then it could be Lady Stark.

hmmm...

[Queensmoot]

Very interesting possibilities. I still want the prayer to the old gods asking for vengeance to be connected with the Stark children getting the direwolves... :eek:

That would make me really happy! I hope it has something to do with the direwolves!!!

[kissdbyfire]

The time distance between the vision of Eddard and the vision of Lyanna and Benjen could have been somewhere between 10 and 15 years.

Yes, that's what I'd thought too. At first anyway.

He has several more visions quickly before focusing on her, so it feels like the pregnant woman is closer to the girl and knight than to Lyanna and Benjen.

No, I think the vision with the woman heavy with child is right after the one with Lyanna and Benjen.

"“You be quiet, stupid,” the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. “It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?” She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her."

If the visions are roughly equi-distant, or at least speed up exponentially, the pregnant woman could be as little as 10-15 years after the slender girl and tall knight. I'd guess the visions are speeding up exponentially though, so more likely 25-30 years after the girl and knight.

Going off the Tower of the Hand timelines, Dunk probably is in Winterfell 209-210-ish. So, the pregnant woman would likely be during Aegon's reign. Maybe something to do with the Blackfyre rebellion? Or maybe it was later on and had something to do with Summerhall? Then it could be Lady Stark.

hmmm...

'Hmmm' is exactly where I am at the mo. :dunno:

[Yarp]

I was under the impression that the Stark-Flint marriage was to bring the Flints into the Northern fold, and that the Flints had been similar to the mountain clans in the Arryns' lands. So, here's my theory: the women wishing vengeance was the Ms. Flint who was unhappy with the whole arrangement. Rickards southern ambitions become the downfall of the Starks, whom she hates. Of course, I have no facts to back this up.

[Brandon the Epithetless]

We have had no indication that the Northern mountain clans were lawless like the hill tribes of the Mountains of the Moon. And the girl married to Rickard was only half-Flint, from her mother's side at that, which would make it unlikely that she could have been a means of bringing into the Stark fold of the Flint clan and even more unlikely the rest of the mountain clans. Also from that Bran chapter in Asos where they met a Liddle in the mountains, it was evident that the clansmen had deep respect for Stark authority and leadership. It does not seem like this kind of loyalty could be fostered by an arranged marriage just two generations back.

[lupis42]

Also from that Bran chapter in Asos where they met a Liddle in the mountains, it was evident that the clansmen had deep respect for Stark authority and leadership. It does not seem like this kind of loyalty could be fostered by an arranged marriage just two generations back.

That sounds like a culture built up over many generations, and since Westeros history seems to operate on longer timescales than ours, I would speculate that more than one hundred generations of good relations are not unreasonable.

[Errant Bard]

And the girl married to Rickard was only half-Flint, from her mother's side at that

Everyone but some Targaryen is half-something.

[kissdbyfire]

We have had no indication that the Northern mountain clans were lawless like the hill tribes of the Mountains of the Moon. And the girl married to Rickard was only half-Flint, from her mother's side at that, which would make it unlikely that she could have been a means of bringing into the Stark fold of the Flint clan and even more unlikely the rest of the mountain clans. Also from that Bran chapter in Asos where they met a Liddle in the mountains, it was evident that the clansmen had deep respect for Stark authority and leadership. It does not seem like this kind of loyalty could be fostered by an arranged marriage just two generations back.

Yes, I totally agree. I never got the impression that the northern clans are ‘unruly’ like the Vale tribes. The Vale tribes more or less hate the lords/noble houses as they feel robbed of their own lands in a way. The northern clans on the other hand are extremely loyal and devoted to the Starks. I don’t remember this, are there any Liddles among the northern clans when rally to Stannis in ADwD? Because they know Bran is alive, right?

I wonder...