howsockgothappy, on 12 November 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:
I actually don't see how you get this from the text. An in-depth reader would realize that just because they are separated by a few sentences, this does not make them separate instances. The exact text is:
"But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark? "
I'm quite certain that the implication here is 'might she have looked to me instead of him?.... If she had, I would not have dishonoured her as he did,' not that she looked to Stark for comfort after the 'dishonouring'
How would Ser Barristan crowning Ashara Queen of Love and Beauty at the end of the tournament have prevented Ned or Brandon or anyone else from dishonoring Ashara prior? Perhaps revisiting Meera's story will help a bit. We know the possible suitors would likely have danced with Ashara. Brandon is not specifcally mentioned as dancing with Ashara, but the too shy to ask her himself Ned did. Of course we know that Ned and Howland became fast friends at Harrenhal, too. Earlier on Barristan suggests that young maidens prefer the fiery type, was Oberyn fiery? Oberyn certanly has no compulsion to preserve a maid's honor. Only the listed white swords died during the war, so ...
So, it seems that Ashara threw herself from the tower after her brother's death (White Sword in Meera's tale? Or, was it another White Sword, Jaime excluded?) One story suggests it was because of her love for the married Ned. This story suggests that Ashara wanted to redeem herself by finding a husband in Ned, who she knew liked her very much at Harrenhal.
Again, there is one complete sentence: "But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well.
" I see no names or suggestions for the identity of the man. Does Barristan know? I sincerely doubt it, though he may have heard rumors, he fails to give an identity to himself. This also suggests that the man who dishonored her died during the war.
ETA: There are five King's Guard that died during the war, any one of which could be the White Sword that danced with Ashara, and thus be likely to be suspect of dishonoring Ashara at Harrenhal. They are: Lord Commander, Gerold Hightower; Ser Arthur Dayne; Ser Oswell Whent; Ser Lewyn Martell; Ser Barristan Selmy; Ser Jaime Lannister; and Ser Jonathor Darry. We can exclude Jaime who survived and because he was at King's Landing immediately after being inducted, and he only had relations with his sister. We can exclude Barristan who survived and because he is the source and he surely seems to imply that he would not dishonor Ashara. We can exclude Arthur because he is Ashara's brother, and he had ample opportunity, if he was so inclined, to dishonr Ashara at other times. So, we have a red snake (Oberyn), Lord of Griffins (Jon Connington), and a white sword (could be Gerold, Oswell, Lewyn, or Jonathor), also dancing with Ashara if we are to assume that the man who dishonored Ashara also danced with her.
Edited by MtnLion, 13 November 2011 - 12:02 PM.