289 replies to this topic

[Skunkbelly]

Raidne, on 03 November 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:

No offense, I like you. I do. But this kind of smugness annoys the piss out of me. Guess what? People look at everything about you all the time and make a judgment. You, and everyone else posting stuff like this, are also making judgments about people based on what they say, talk about, etc. One of those many factors may be the kind of engagement ring someone has. It's no different than saying you tell a lot about a man by his shoes. So, for instance, if I know a couple who was nearly destitute, but she's walking around with a $25K ring on, I'd judge them the same way that Chats has that hard-on for maligning lovers of flat screen TVs and granite countertops. From this thread, every time I look at someone with a non-traditional engagement ring, I will note that it's correlated with being really judgmental about people who made a different choice, like the South Park episode about the Prius. Yes, your ass emits a wonderful bouquet. Or is that aroma? I'm sure you can tell me.

Raidne: Did you bother to read my follow up post before attacking me? It's  #35. I'll quote it in case you missed it

Quote

And I realized after I posted that I should have added that if you want a big ring and you can afford a big ring then, go for it. I am sure that my parents think that we are the most frivolous people in the universe for putting a hot tub in the back yard last year. Thing is, we've wanted it for years and we could afford it, so we did it.

How could I possibly be smug about not having a diamond when I just told you that there was no money to buy a diamond when I got engaged. I did get a ring. It was a garnet  from a big chain jeweler that cost I think $150.  It's mangled and bent, and I can't wear it anymore.  One of these days I may have it reset. Maybe I won't.

As far as judging people,  I actually don't give a flying fsck about anyone's engagement ring, shoes, car, house,  zip code, clothes whatever. Does not matter to me one iota.  I  try not to judge people by appearances, really I do.  I am much more likely to pass judgment on a person based on the grammar of their email than what brand of jeans they are wearing (if I could even tell what brand they had on in the first place).


As far as people judging me.... well, if people are going to judge me based on my jewelry, clothes, shoes, house, car, zip code, whatever, I really would prefer NOT to know them.  I do realize that your outward appearance is a projection of who you are, and to that end I try to be neat and clean, well mannered and well spoken.  Other than that, if someone doesn't want to be my friend because I happen to be wearing a sweater from Target along with my Boden skirt and Clarks shoes, then I really don't want to be their friend, either.

Edited by Lady Whitestripe, 03 November 2011 - 12:37 PM.

[Iskaral Pust]

I hate the engagement ring BS.  The deck is stacked against guys.  I think most women resist the brainwashing attempts about diamonds, but it's hard for them to ignore the competitive associations.  Female competition is very inadequately discussed/exposed in mainstream culture, instead it is fanned and exploited by marketing juggernauts.

So I caved and bought a 1 carat solitaire for ~$5k.  That was a large expenditure while we were young and relatively poor.  Our entire wedding cost $25k to put it in perspective.  I went for a 1 carat that scored very highly on the 4c's and was/is very sparkly.  A 1.5 carat is overwhelming on my wife's hands, and 2 carats would be clown-shoes (great phrase Monday).

Of course, that same stone would cost a lot more today.  Jewelry inflation is criminal.  Even without the stupid gold bugs, the diamond cartel manages supply very tightly to push up prices, but they must be very good at bribing the anti-trust regulators.

At least now there is better access to jewelry wholesalers and on-line retailers.  Anyone who pays retail at a mall jeweler is crazy.  (I could find a wholesaler even then)

Edited by Iskaral Pust, 03 November 2011 - 11:56 AM.

[IheartTesla]

Yet another industry with artificially inflated prices that have little relation to functionality of an item.

[Chataya de Fleury]

Thanks, Jaxom...I've been sucked into wonderful tax forums and articles with great diversity in opinion, regarding "gifts twice given" (i.e., the engagement ring given again).

There was one really interesting circumstance, with the guy's wife dying, then him falling in love with her sister or something, and giving the ring again, to her...Damn you!  It's the middle class version of "Jerry Springer".

Edited by Chataya de Fleury, 03 November 2011 - 12:18 PM.

[kairparavel]

I am prettyvery judgemental, and would roll my eyes at something garish and look at me blingy. But you know what I wouldn't do? Smugly feel sorry for someone who was blissfully unaware at how flawed her diamond was as she prepares for her exciting new married life. People should be feeling sorry for me, if that was the case.

I have a simple hand-crafted band set with a 0.33 carat diamond that I was rather happy with, from Engagement 1.0. I wanted a ring but I didn't want to tie up gobs of money in it. Turns out it was money well not spent. This time around throwing a reception seemed a better use of money. I have a very simple white gold band with engraved edges that I wear. If we upgrade, we upgrade. If not, that is ok too.

[Daenerys Stormborn]

With diamonds i think any solitar over 2cts looks a bit flashy, but if youre going with a different gem i think size isnt a factor. I also second the previous statements of quality over quantity and taking the size of your hands into account with ct size.

Verboten, on 03 November 2011 - 10:56 AM, said:

My mother has an opal engagement ring. They were both poor students when they got engaged and mum loves opals so that's what dad got for her. Sometimes non-traditional rings have sentimental and financial reasons behind them. It's quite beautiful.

I too went the route of non-traditional, i've never been fond diamonds. I thought my mother and MIL we're going to have strokes over snubbing tradition (us being only children, we were their only shabang). I think my garnet is about 5cts, octogon cut, in a custom platinum setting (which is valued more then the gem). I get tons of comments on picking something so unique and personal. If you like the idea of designing your own ring and making it yours alone I'd recommend checking out some locally owned jewelry stores for examples of custom work, that's what we did.

Edited by Daenerys Stormborn, 03 November 2011 - 12:36 PM.

[Iskaral Pust]

cyrano, on 03 November 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yet another industry with artificially inflated prices that have little relation to functionality of an item.

We utilitarians find this world confusing and illogical, but you always have the choice not to buy the diamond/McMansion/dodgy financial security.

The inflated prices only stay inflated because enough people are paying them.  Price inflation in necessities is a grave public concern.  Price inflation in frivolities is self-inflicted.

[Skunkbelly]

One final thought on jewel size, I honestly don't even know what a 1 ct stone looks like. Is it common knowledge?  Did I miss some jewelery gene?

[TerraPrime]

Lady Whitestripe, on 03 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

One final thought on jewel size, I honestly don't even know what a 1 ct stone looks like. Is it common knowledge?  Did I miss some jewelery gene?

Well, here's a reference.

[Tammy]

I'm a big fan of the non-traditional engagement/wedding rings.  I just don't like diamonds.  I've never seen a big diamond ring I've liked.  The only ones I've ever liked were rings that had tiny little diamonds set in a pattern of some sort.

[Chataya de Fleury]

Lady Whitestripe, on 03 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

One final thought on jewel size, I honestly don't even know what a 1 ct stone looks like. Is it common knowledge?  Did I miss some jewelery gene?

https://www.google.c...=og&sa=N&tab=wi

For a serious answer   If you kind of scroll over the pictures, some women are also describing their ring size, so you can get an idea of what one carat looks like on a ring size 5, for example.

See what variability there is on the second to last picture on the first row, and the last picture on the first row?  That's all finger size; the diamond is roughly the same weight (or should be, if one trusts teh interarnets).

Remember, also, carat is a weight measure; the table (top) of the diamond can vary a bit, depending on the cut.

Edited by Chataya de Fleury, 03 November 2011 - 01:11 PM.

[Aoife]

Lady Whitestripe, on 03 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

One final thought on jewel size, I honestly don't even know what a 1 ct stone looks like. Is it common knowledge?  Did I miss some jewelery gene?

It's just sort of a standard benchmark, so a lot of people are used to it from that. You can get a vague idea from websites like this one (bearing in mind the aforementioned details like comparison to finger size, and so on).
http://www.bridalrin...n_diamond_sizes

The main thing, though, is that a carat is actually a measure of mass, not a specific diameter or weight or anything like that. So, depending on the cut, you can have stones of the same material that look different and yet still have the same carat weight. (Of course, the cut will also affect the sparkle, so it's often a tradeoff between a bigger face diameter and how it glints.)

Because different gems have different densities, it's also possible for the same size gem to be totally different carat weights based on the material. Check out the difference here between sapphire and diamond, for example: http://www.gemselect...size-weight.php

[Nichole]

God, if I had the money I would love a huge flashy ring. I would probably rather it be a cocktail ring and not meant for everyday wear but a huge rock to put on when dressing up sounds fabulous. I really like bold pieces of jewelry so I think that is part of the appeal to me.

[Jaxom 1974]

Chataya de Fleury, on 03 November 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Thanks, Jaxom...I've been sucked into wonderful tax forums and articles with great diversity in opinion, regarding "gifts twice given" (i.e., the engagement ring given again).

There was one really interesting circumstance, with the guy's wife dying, then him falling in love with her sister or something, and giving the ring again, to her...Damn you!  It's the middle class version of "Jerry Springer".

Sorry, Chataya.

[Raidne]

Lady Whitestripe, on 03 November 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Raidne: Did you bother to read my follow up post before attacking me? It's  #35. I'll quote it in case you missed it

Sigh. I'm not attacking you. Well, maybe I am, but as stated, it's not personal, you're just the exemplar. It's a total coincidence. Yours just happened to be the whatever number post I read saying basically the same hypocritical crap that other people were saying and/or have previously said on the multiple past iterations we've had of this thread.

And no, I didn't. But it's pretty predictable.

Lady Whitestripe, on 03 November 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

Sorry, I just don't understand spending that much money on a ring...[but] I should have added that if you want a big ring and you can afford a big ring then, go for it.

With me, it's like, I just don't understand murder. I think it would make me feel bad about myself if I were a murderer. You know, sorry. I just don't get it. But, on the other hand, if you're a sociopath and you're willing to do the jail time, well, go for it! No judgment!

Quote

As far as judging people,  I actually don't give a flying fsck about anyone's engagement ring, shoes, car, house,  zip code, clothes whatever. Does not matter to me one iota.  I  try not to judge people by appearances, really I do.  I am much more likely to pass judgment on a person based on the grammar of their email than what brand of jeans they are wearing (if I could even tell what brand they had on in the first place).

As far as people judging me.... well, if people are going to judge me based on my jewelry, clothes, shoes, house, car, zip code, whatever, I really would prefer NOT to know them.  I do realize that your outward appearance is a projection of who you are, and to that end I try to be neat and clean, well mannered and well spoken.  Other than that, if someone doesn't want to be my friend because I happen to be wearing a sweater from Target along with my Boden skirt and Clarks shoes, then I really don't want to be their friend, either.

I don't know what to say about this. People do make judgments. The judgment might be an unconscious assessment of the absence of a Bottega Veneta bag or something, and the resulting impression might be positive. I personally will admit that I judge people with big Coach or Loius Vuitton logo bags as being kinda tacky in most cases, if I think about it. Because it seems like they care more about what brand their bag is that how it functions as a bag. Here, as Cyr points out, there is no functionality whatsoever other than pure aesthetic. I will also fully admit that I would probably unconsciously have a more favorable impression of someone with a really unique and unpretentious engagement ring that was really reflective of their personality than I would of someone who had a perfect 2 carat solitaire diamond ring, which seems like a generically pretty ring for a generically pretty person. OTOH, that is precisely what one of my best friends has, and I don't think she's at all generic, so it's not controlling. But I'm pretty sure other acquaintances I have judged her harshly for it (I probably got that impression when the person said "your ring is a huge waste of money and if anyone gave me that I would take it back!").

My point is, there's this bar I like by my office. You would be judged to belong there. Some other people I know would not. It's not that great of a book, but William Gibson's Pattern Recognition got me thinking about how hard it is to really avoid branding, and honestly, his character who supposedly succeeded at it wasn't very convincing to me - she just seemed to evince a minimalist aesthetic, not no aesthetic, which I think is impossible. And so, judgment. Sorry. From what you've said, I suspect you of having bought something from the Delia's catalogue at some point. And perhaps Urban Outfitters. Sue me.

Howdyphillip, on 03 November 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

...but I remember paying half of a comparable purchase at Zales. The one thing that I had to keep in mind about this was that there is no return policies this way.

Well, there is retail, and then there are mall jewelry stores for suckers.

Edited by Raidne, 03 November 2011 - 01:58 PM.

[Raidne]

Nichole, on 03 November 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

God, if I had the money I would love a huge flashy ring. I would probably rather it be a cocktail ring and not meant for everyday wear but a huge rock to put on when dressing up sounds fabulous. I really like bold pieces of jewelry so I think that is part of the appeal to me.

Yes. I really, really, really, really want an aquamarine cocktail ring. Unfortunately, aquamarines aren't that cheap. And if they are, it's for a good reason, like they lack color. But man (if you will, picture the impression that the Chinese guy does of Americans on that episode of South Park) I really really want it.

I have an onyx cocktail ring that's just begging someone to do something that would justify punching them in the face. I guess you can't have everything you want.

[quirksome]

Aoife Trevgaryen, on 03 November 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Because different gems have different densities, it's also possible for the same size gem to be totally different carat weights based on the material. Check out the difference here between sapphire and diamond, for example: http://www.gemselect...size-weight.php

This explains so much!  I have a sapphire rong which was supposedly .75 carats and the stone is beautiful but tiny!  Thought I'd been cheated until I saw that comparison.

Tammy, on 03 November 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

I'm a big fan of the non-traditional engagement/wedding rings.  I just don't like diamonds.  I've never seen a big diamond ring I've liked.  The only ones I've ever liked were rings that had tiny little diamonds set in a pattern of some sort.

I love filigree work and pave.  Found this beautiful Elvish-style ring... it would be a totally terrible, ridiculous and extravagant and tempting idea to buy it...

[Chataya de Fleury]

kairparavel, on 03 November 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

I am prettyvery judgemental, and would roll my eyes at something garish and look at me blingy. But you know what I wouldn't do? Smugly feel sorry for someone who was blissfully unaware at how flawed her diamond was as she prepares for her exciting new married life. People should be feeling sorry for me, if that was the case.

Jezus, you know, you can put me on "ignore" if I rub you the wrong way that badly.

[zollo]

But where would be the fun in that?

[Skunkbelly]

Raidne, on 03 November 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

With me, it's like, I just don't understand murder. I think it would make me feel bad about myself if I were a murderer. You know, sorry. I just don't get it. But, on the other hand, if you're a sociopath and you're willing to do the jail time, well, go for it! No judgment!

Sarcastic much?  It seems like you are pretty set in putting your own spin on my words.  I don't get bling. I  do get spending a lot of money on something that you want.  I bought a hot tub.  Did I need it? Nope.  Does it serve any purpose other than to give me pleasure? Not really. Did I want it? Hell, yeah. Do I like it? You betcha.

Quote

  From what you've said, I suspect you of having bought something from the Delia's catalogue at some point. And perhaps Urban Outfitters. Sue me.

  

And you would be wrong on both accounts, although I've been in an Urban Outfitters store sometime in the past five years or so, which is more than I can say for Delia's having never actually entered one.  I suspect you don't know me at all.

Edited by Lady Whitestripe, 03 November 2011 - 03:05 PM.