Gendry?

[Eggplant Wizard]

He's probably going to be the one to free Jaime. He's hanging around, he has some role left to play and there is no way Jaime is going to die like a punk.

[xylven]

Although you can never be sure with GRRM, he would have a lot of explaining to do to make the readers believe Gendry is Cersei's son. Then again, it might be possible.

Also in Cersei's prophecy by Maggy the Frog, she was said to have 3 children and her husband would have 16. Joff, Mycella and Tommen make 3 already.

[The Pretty Good John]

I am surprised how many people think Gendry will not have an important part to play in the final books. Based solely on the time GRRM has dedicated to the character I would expect a reasonable conclusion to his story (other than living happily ever after with the orphans at the inn).

What the conclusion will be, I have no idea...being legitmized and taking over a castle seems like a stretch. Using his super smithing powers or becoming a knight/warrior of sorts, these things I could see.

If he gets a bit of training, he'd make an excellent member of the King's Guard for whatever Kings/Queens are left at the end. Raised poor and orphaned in King's Landing, not educated or clever with words, but true of heart, he could be a good Ser Gendry the Strong. Now, if he could only find a quirky squire . . . .

[GreenDream]

It's interesting to note that Gendry is a smith, and now (presumably) is with Jamie and Brienne, who also have the 2 swords that were made when Ice was split up. Under the eye of UnCat...

No, I read somewhere (I believe it was in So Spoke Martin) that Widow's Wail was waiting in the Red Keep until such time that Tommen would be able to wield it. Jaime's sword is the one he gave to Brienne, the other one was Joffrey's.

[GreenDream]

On another note, I was re-reading the Arya chapters in Clash of Kings, and It was either in the first or second one where Arya and Gendry were talking about the comet. Gendry said it looked like a red sword. Like one red hot just taken from the forge. Arya thinks it looks like her father's sword ice, red with his blood after his beheading. Re-reading this passage, it just struck me as odd that Gendry would use the words, "red sword" when throughout the novels we see that same description. ie. In Dany's dream of a blue eyed king with a red sword and no shadow, Jon dreaming that he was covered in black ice armor and wielding a red sword, the red sword of heroes etc etc. I don't know what this could mean, and I've tried to find the right thread to put this, but couldn't find one relevant. Any ideas? thanks.

[Silver Spearwife]

On another note, I was re-reading the Arya chapters in Clash of Kings, and It was either in the first or second one where Arya and Gendry were talking about the comet. Gendry said it looked like a red sword. Like one red hot just taken from the forge. Arya thinks it looks like her father's sword ice, red with his blood after his beheading. Re-reading this passage, it just struck me as odd that Gendry would use the words, "red sword" when throughout the novels we see that same description. ie. In Dany's dream of a blue eyed king with a red sword and no shadow, Jon dreaming that he was covered in black ice armor and wielding a red sword, the red sword of heroes etc etc. I don't know what this could mean, and I've tried to find the right thread to put this, but couldn't find one relevant. Any ideas? thanks.

Also the imagery of the two swords that Ice is melted down to, one of which Gendry has already encountered. Hell, if Brienne is undead (or dies properly) and, as Eggplant suggested, Gendry frees Jaime, then Gendry may end up with the sword (although I'm a little fonder of the idea that any special sword Gendry gets a hold of is one he makes himself).

So, it could have to do with that, or as has been suggested in the past, maybe Lightbringer. The only smiths we hear about are Donal, Mikken, a few other minor ones, Gendry, and Azor Ahai himself who forged the original Lightbringer. Someone suggested a whiiiile back that Gendry may have a part to play in the forging of the new Lightbringer.

Not saying I abide by it - just that I've heard it suggested, and it's an idea, not necessarily mine. Take out of it what you will.

[Faithmemory]

Call me crazy.. I remember Cersei talking about how she lost her first child, or one of her children. I don't think Gendry is a bastard. I think his parents are Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister and Cersei didn't want a child from Robert and paid a large amount of money to keep the midwives quiet and get rid of the baby with brown hair. Gendry = heir to the Iron Throne

That's in the TV show, in the books Cersei only has three children whose father is Jaime. In the books she says that Robert got her pregnant once but she got rid of the baby before it was born.

Gendry described his mother having a 'yellow hair'.

[Dena]

Gendry described his mother having a 'yellow hair'.

Which for me is probably a way to tell the readers that if Cersei and Robert had a child he or she would have black hair instead of blonde, just like Gendry. I just think that GRRM would have a really hard time explaining how Cersei got pregnant with Robert's baby, decided to keep it, hide the pregnancy from the Baratheons, decided to sent the baby away and still managed to be a constant presence in his life (Gendry's mother dies, until then she raised him and for all we know she was always with him. Gendry never said anything about his mother being absent) without people noticing the Queen is absent a lot of time and then decides to kill him along with the rest of the bastards. Not saying it can't happen, just seems unlikely to me

[Faithmemory]

This is after Ned Starks investigation about Jon Arryn's death. He borrowed the book that Jon Arryn was reading before he died. And he visited Gendry, the armor's apprentice and discovered that he has the looks of a Baratheon and believes that he is Robert's bastard son. It was also said that Jon arryn visited a brothel, so Ned Stark sent someone to go to all whorehouses in town.

In GoT, Arya's chapter. She overheard 2 men talking about killing Ned Stark. They mention about Ned Stark being their last problem because 'he has the bastard and the book and soon enough he’ll have the truth.' Arya mistaken the 'bastard' being mentioned as Jon Snow (bastard of his father) but many believed that it is Gendry (because this happened after Ned visited him). And the book -- Eddard consults The Lineage book and sees that in every match between a Baratheon and a member of another house, the Baratheon black hair always dominates. Robert and Cersei sons and daughter has yellow hair [CerseixJaime children]. And Robert and Cersei once had a son but in the books Cersei underwent abortion and in the TV show, Cersei said that her son died because of a fever. Gendry is the eldest known Bastard son of Robert. If all of this is true, then Gendry can be a candidate for the iron throne. (but i doubt that gendry would want that).

Most likely, Gendry will play a wider role in the future books.

[episodenone]

Without reading this entire thread - I can say IMHO we have seen the last of Gendry as anything important.

He is yet another over reach by an overwhelmed author.

Something's gotte give. This is one of those somethings.

[whitters23]

We have not seen the last of Gendry. I'm fairly positive about that. He’s too prominent of a character to just disappear and GRRM seems to be building him up for something pretty important (he’s escaped death so many times). I like the idea that he’ll be the one to re-forge Ice. Especially since it was specifically mentioned that Valaryian steel remembers it’s shape and wants to go back to it’s original form. This is not just a throw away comment. This is foreshadowing… and GRRM is the king of foreshadowing. I personally don’t think that he’ll be the one to forge Lightbringer. I’m fairly certain that Dany is AA.

I do, however, think that Gendry will play an important role in the BwB and the upcoming scenes of Stoneheart, Jaime and Brienne. Again, it’s not a coincidence that he’s right in the middle of these three major characters.

I’ve also got some feeling that his being Robert’s bastard has not finished playing it’s role yet. Out of all of the known bastards he is the one that seems most important or at least is the one we see the most of. It is thought that Varys was the one who got him the apprenticeship as a smith, and that he was the one that saved him from the Queen by sending him to the wall. Varys does NOTHING that is not important to his cause in some way or another. So why save Gendry out of all of Robert’s bastards? Why pay double the fee to have him learn to wield a hammer? My thinking is that because he is said to be a carbon copy of young Robert that perhaps he will bring peace to the Targaryen supporters and Baratheon supporters when he bends a knee to Dany or Aegon. Some people believe that these reasons point to him being the King but there are too many others that actually WANT the throne and I highly doubt that Gendry does. He’s happy being a smith and protecting those that need protecting.

I also strongly believe that we have not seen the end of the Gendry and Arya dynamic. GRRM was careful to build up their relationship, especially near the end of their time together. He would not do that if they were never intended to meet again, especially because it wasn’t a proper goodbye. It was left without closure, unlike other goodbyes we’ve seen like Ned/Catelyn, Jon/Robb, Jon/Arya. Those all felt like real goodbyes and so far in the end they really have been.

I’m also one of the people that think it’s likely that something romantic will form between them in the future. Like I said, GRRM took the time to set something up between them just before he separated them. Yes, right now she is still a young girl, and for them to actually have something truly romantic right NOW is creepy. But as it is they are just friends and there is only the beginnings of something that, possibly, in the future, could become something romantic. The big indicator being that they were both jealous when someone else of the opposite sex was giving them attention. I think they both have something of a crush on each other, but they don’t really realize it yet. And when I say ‘crush’ I’m not saying they are sexually attracted to each other, but I think they understand each other and admire one another. Gendry likes that she isn’t the average girl, she’s rough and tumble, and not afraid to fight. She’s strong and wilful and smart. She doesn’t act like a girl or talk like a girl and those are all things that he admires in her. She's unique and much like her aunt is passionate and wild. It’s not something physical, but instead he is attracted to Arya as a person. And I think the innocence of that in itself is something romantic. The same goes for Arya. she likes Gendry probably because he reminds her a lot of Jon. They work well together. She says he’s stupid but often they think very much alike and even on occasion finish each others sentences. I think she also admires his strength and build… and yet she doesn’t realize it yet, which again leads me to believe it’s not that she’s attracted to that yet, but perhaps his stature is something that makes her feels safe, and protected. As for the age difference, it is nothing in the long run. 5 years is really not a big age difference even by today’s standard. It’s only an issue because of how young they still are. By the end of the series I believe she’ll likely be around 15 or 16. In there time period that makes her a young woman, and a perfectly normal age to get married and start having children. (I guess it would be comparable to being 18 or 19 in our day and age. It’s still young but it’s not wrong.) And again, this does not mean that if they do meet up again they will have something sexual, just that it is likely they will have something slightly romantic between them. Look at the other two ‘big romances’ in the series, Jaime/Brienne and Sansa/The Hound, nothing actually physical has happened between either and yet there is a strong connection between them. I think it is likely that will be the same for Gendry and Arya. Romances that seem to be all about sex tend to have a bad ending in this series. It makes sense that the relationships we are supposed to root for are generally the ones based on a mutual respect and trust (with their deepest darkest secrets AND their lives) first and physical attraction second (if at all).

I also hope that Gendry and Arya will actually be the couple that winds up together in the end. I know that GRRM is not likely to make everyone happy at the end. I see so many people that think all the surviving Starks will get back together and be a big happy family again, and I think they are naïve in thinking so. But I do really think that Gendry and Arya could be the exception. Think about it. Out of all the other ‘romantic’ relationships, it is most likely that these two will be the ones to both survive. Personally even though I love the characters, I see Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Cersei, Littlefinger, the Hound (if you still believe him alive) and Jorah Mormont all dying. And even if they don’t I don’t see them having a happy ending with the ones they love. Dany is not likely to marry for love, she will find her other 2 heads to the dragon and marry to rule the kingdom. Sam and Gilly won’t be able to continue their relationship when he goes back to the Watch. Bran will become the new Three Eyed Crow and therefore will never have a romance or family of his own. GRRM is a fan of bittersweet endings and he has many to work with here, but will he really end the series with NO happy endings? This is why I think at least one couple with make it in the end. And to me these two seem to be the best candidates.

I’m not saying they will get married. Personally I think Arya is the type of girl that won’t care about if its proper for her to be with a low born man. She certainly won’t care if she wants to be with someone who isn’t a ‘good match’ for a lady. And if she wants to get married she would do so regardless. However it could be that they never do get married and instead just stay together unwed (much like Asha and her beau). So I could see these two together in the end. Defying social protocol, perhaps adopting several of the orphans of war (they are both big on protecting the helpless).

Also remember GRRM is big on foreshadowing and there have been TONS of hints that these two will be together. The biggest is the Lyanna/Robert comparisons. The rebellion started when those two didn’t get married, it would be interesting if it ended by these two fulfilling that promise instead. Also, with Robert suggesting that his son marry Ned’s daughter. He was speaking of Joff and Sansa but again it would be an interesting twist that it would actually be these two that form that bond between the families, especially if it is unknowingly.

Arya has been said to have the hands of a blacksmith. And of course there were the words of Jaime when speaking of the Stark girls.

“Lord Eddard’s daughters live. One has just been wed. The other…[..] if the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark. She’ll wed some burly blacksmith [..] fill his house with children and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall.”

Now he was speaking of Sansa when he said that, but the interesting twist is that it is actually Sansa that is married and Arya that is currently trying to forget she is a Stark (Sansa is merely pretending until the time comes to claim Winterfell).

These are not all coincidences. GRRM has done it on purpose. Plus how fitting for a warrior to be paired up with a blacksmith. I couldn't think of a better match for her. He can make her all of the deadly weapons that she wants, haha.

[SusieSnow]

The HBO series has no relevance at all to the books; they have added and taken away stuff. I have watched it and they are trying to make Cersei much more likable in the series than GRRM did in the books, which I prefer. I think he wrote her way too irrationally. In the books, a pregnancy carried to term before Joffrey has never been mentioned and since she aborted the child she did conceive from him is a good sign that it doesn't exist. GRRM coming back with I hid my pregnancy, I thought birthing his legitimate heir and disposing of him, or whatever is just going to look foolish.

Last I checked, Edric Storm who actually did have a noble mother is still alive and well liked by Stannis. If any of Robert's bastards is going to get the stamp of legitimacy, it is going to be him not Gendry.

Wow, first off, for those who have read the books and also watch the show.... yes, it's clear the show is deviating quite a bit from the books. BUT, to say the series has no relevance at all to the books is totally inaccurate.

If you pay very, very close attention - you'll realize the show has attempted to narrow things down (for time and production purposes) and include only the characters who are important to the story arc. They've taken the liberty of changing a few book plots to make things a little more "obvious" on screen, since they can't possibly include every subtle clue contained in the books. The beauty of creating a show based on a book series, is you can improve upon and simply certain things after-the-fact. Whereas, you can't rewrite a book. Somewhere, GRRM said there are things he wished he could go back and change for clarity purposes (not in those exact words) but you can't. You CAN when creating an HBO series.

Remember.... GRRM has a soft spot for bastards, cripples, and broken things. You can bet your butt, that Gendry is most definitely significant! There are SO many subtle clues in the books: GoT Ch. 27.... ACoK Ch. 1, 5, 19.... ASoS Ch. 3, 13, 29, 39.... just to name a few. I thought Gendry was boring and missed a LOT of it my first reads. When I read a second and third time, I started paying closer attention. Once I started putting the pieces together in my mind, he became a whole lot more interesting in the book. Everything GRRM writes is done with absolute intent. ASoIaF is filled with subtle clues. Some are obvious, but more are not. Some are red herring, many more are not. That's just my opinion.

With that said.... I've read all the books four times and watched every episode of the show 5-6 times, which doesn't make me any wiser - just more obsessed than most... LOL! Anyway.... this isn't the forum to discuss the show, so I'll stick to the books. Here's what I think....

IMO - I think there's a very good possibility that Gendry is not a bastard, just as Jon Snow is likely not a bastard. I find it probable that Gendry is Robert and Cersei's first child. He's at an age with Robb, which would be approximately 3 years older than Joffrey. Cersei said she had an abortion, but how did she know it was Roberts child when she's been messing around with Jaime since they were 14 or 15 years old? And clearly continued to do so after she married Robert.

So.... in early years, Cersei was young and likely sleeping with both men without thinking (one for duty, one for love). Then she gets pregnant for the first time and realizes "oops" she doesn't know who the baby daddy is! Naturally, she hides the pregnancy (which LOTS of people do in real life) with the help of Jaime, until the baby was born. When the baby shows up with a head full of black hair.... oh shit!

At that point, Jayme probably took the baby away and ordered Varys to hide him under the notion that it was just another bastard created by Robert. He already has a bastard daughter in the Vale, so another bastard wouldn't be a surprise. As the Master-of-Whispers, I suspect he knew Cersei was the mother, but it played right into his game (another pawn to play). This makes way more sense, because I really don't see Cersei aborting a baby that might have been hers and Jaime's "first" child. Of course after this incident, now a little wiser, Cersei stopped having intercourse with Robert to prevent another "mix up" again.

After giving birth to Gendry, I think Cersei disguised herself as a tavern wench (as she'd done twice before with Jaime) and secretly visited Gendry for the first 3 years of his life, which is why he remembers her a little. I can totally envision Cersei feeling mixed emotions in regard to giving up her first child.... a child of her body.... regardless of paternity. I think it's not coincidental her preferred disguise is that of a "tavern wench", and Gendry's supposed "yellow-haired mother" worked at an "alehouse". Once Cersei got pregnant and gave birth to Joffrey (approximately 3 years, 9 months later) she stopped visiting Gendry. Memories of his mother are vague, so it can be assumed he was around 3 or 4 years old when she supposedly died (stopped visiting). The timeline seems to add up.

For clarity - I suspected this scenario when I read the books a couple of times, but wasn't totally convinced. But when I watched the show, certain changes sealed the deal for me. If it wasn't significant, they could have left the entire baby topic out and it wouldn't have changed anything else thus far. Just saying.

So is Gendry insignificant??? Hell NO! There's definitely a reason why Varys and Melisandre have been interested in Gendry. There's definitely a reason why he meets Arya and they form a bond. There's definitely a reason why he has so much dialogue with Arya. There's definitely a reason why he shows up in Briennes Chapter in AFFC. These are not random coincidences.

GRRM has reasons for everything! We just don't know what they are yet! But I feel pretty confident that Gendry is not just any ole' bastard. Just like I feel Jon is not any ole' bastard. Gendry might not be as important as Jon, but then again.... maybe he will be. You never know in this cleverly created World. :-) Peace.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Without reading all 18 pages of posts, especially since most posts were in 2011 & 2012 (not that we have new information, but most of those users are probably not as active now).

As for Gendry...Why introduce someone that has ties to Baratheon and is a blacksmith (apprentice) without the thought of using that in the future? Red Herring? Possibly.

But the mention of Dragonsteel makes me wonder. Jon & Sam ponder that Dragonsteel and Valyrian Steel are one in the same; however how can this be? Per TWoIaF book, Valyria was a new power rising as Westeros was healing from The Long Night. Which makes me believe that Dragonsteel was here before Valyria.

Anyways...this is not the forum to debate Dragonsteel. What my theory is that Gendry will turn out to be the blacksmith that ends up learning how to make Dragonsteel/Valyrian Steel (if they are the same thing). Possibly with the help of Sam (if Sam finds something deep in the vaults of the Citadel and needs to get this information back to Jon/The Wall). Just one thought.

Either way, I hope Gendry's role is not complete...but I could also see how he will be just another minor character with his role now being complete.

[Bumble Bee]

Just what Gendry tells Ned: died when Gendry was little, yellow hair, she used to sing to him, she worked in an alehouse.

What if Cersei's son with Robert didn't die. What if Cersei gave him up because didn't want a child of Robert's inheriting?! What if Gendry is that child?! That would make him Robert's rightful heir.

[nickdt]

On another note, I was re-reading the Arya chapters in Clash of Kings, and It was either in the first or second one where Arya and Gendry were talking about the comet. Gendry said it looked like a red sword. Like one red hot just taken from the forge. Arya thinks it looks like her father's sword ice, red with his blood after his beheading. Re-reading this passage, it just struck me as odd that Gendry would use the words, "red sword" when throughout the novels we see that same description. ie. In Dany's dream of a blue eyed king with a red sword and no shadow, Jon dreaming that he was covered in black ice armor and wielding a red sword, the red sword of heroes etc etc. I don't know what this could mean, and I've tried to find the right thread to put this, but couldn't find one relevant. Any ideas? thanks.

Gendry is the one to forge Lightbringer out of Ice and LS will be his Nissa Nissa.

[Luddagain]

Gendry is an important character for the FUTURE of Westeros. He will become Lord of Storms End and possibly even on the Iron Throne.

Why?

First he is now Ser Gendry, having been legally knighted.

Second he inherited his father's strength and will be a damn fine warrior, especially should he use a war hammer. He would NOT need the many years of training to wield this weapon better than most knights

Third, like Ser Duncan the Tall, and Brienne he has the honour of a true knight

Fourth and most obviously he is the ELDEST male bastard. Should Stannis ever be King or Lord of Storms End, then he will name the ELDEST as heir (after Shireen). That is why he killed Renly. Stannis was older than Renly. For Stannis age matters A LOT.

Fifth, not only does age matter to Stannis, noble birth does NOT. He knows Davos to be a better man, wiser, more honourable and a better military commander, than his lords. Like Gendry, Davos was raised in Flea Bottom. For this reason is Stannis has any say whatever, he will name Gendry as his heir.

Sixth: I would imagine that Jon Snow would think exactly the same as Stannis ie true worth as a person is more important than how you were born

Other reasons why Gendry may be important:

Seven: He is a smith that worked with Valyrian steel - there are very few such. He will almost certainly reforge Ice, and he may also reforge Lightbringer

Eight: As a guy with Known Targ blood he could be a dragon rider - his Targ decent is not hidden

Ninth: There was clearly the beginning of romantic interest between him and Arya, childish and sweet, but still real. Arya was 10 when she met him and he was 14. Not even a big age gap for children to play with one another. Even today a 13 year old and a 17 year old might raise some eyebrows, but a 16 year old and a 20 year old very few, while a 20 year old and a 24 year old would seem perfectly normal. In the middle ages 13 and 25 was perfectly acceptable, while 13 and 17 practically ideal.

Ten: GRRM loves foreshadowing, so suggesting Sansa marry a smith (Gendry) or a fat innkeeper (Hot Pie) was telling us something.

Eleven: GRRM started telling the tale of ragnarok. The land of the gods (nobility of Westeros) will be inherited by two sons of Odin, the skin changing magician, hanging in a tree (Bloodraven), two sons and a daughter of Thor the Stormlord (Robert) , and probably Hodr (Hodor) and Balder (Bran) returning from the underworld (cave in the North). Gendry and probably Edric are the two sons of Thor (we still have 6 children of Robert not accounted for)

[Luddagain]

In the book as opposed to HBO there was NO child of Robert and cersei

[Buried Treasure]

Point Five: If birth does not matter to Stannis, why would he even bother naming a bastard of Baratheon blood? Why not say that Stannis will name the current steward of Storms End as Lord of Storms End - he is surely better skilled to run the Lordship than a trained smith whose only qualification is his ancestry.

Though in fact, Stannis does care about birth, from his only claim to bring king as Robert's lawful heir on down to keeping that coward in Mel's in service. You only think he does not care about birth because after the disaster with Floret he adopted the tried and true method of having his closest advisor be someone he trusted (see also; Tywin-Kevan, Robert-Ned, Robb-Brynden). Only they had the advantages of having the most suitable trustworthy advisors also be noble-born, trained to command and educated.

[Luddagain]

BT

Stannis cares about BIRTH ORDER. he would not for example name Edrik Storm ahead of Gendry, because Gendry is the eldest. Stannis does NOT assume that only those raised in a Noble House are competent. He makes Davos Hand, because he recognises his true worth.

Now I imagine that Stannis will name Shireen first and try for a good marriage for her. Edrik Storm is an obvious choice, uniting the female and male lines of Baratheon (and sort of Targ). Shireen is ugly and has grey scale, so her options are more limited than a beautiful girl whom Stannis might marry to a major house. However if Edrik Storm were dead, Stannis might well marry Shireen to Gendry

[Buried Treasure]

He doesn't need to name Shireen. Nobody needs to name their heir when they have a direct successor. Shireen is his trueborn child and undoubtedly a successor.

And I gotta disagree that a bastard cousin is a good marriage choice for her. If Stannis wins then her husband is going to be the next royal consort and in the eyes of many the ruler - not the woman. Many in Westeros would resent that honour going to a bastard. Besides, a cousin marriage is a wasted opportunity to bind another House in a marriage alliance. Somebody will marry an ugly girl that is going to be Queen.