412 replies to this topic

[Gillio]

"one skinchanger can sense another............................... The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it"

I guess Varamir couid sense the skill level of the other skinchanger too, remember he's hung out with skinchangers all his life

[Olorun Sand]

In A Storm of Swords Robb declared Jon a Stark before his bannermen.  Even had them place their house seals on the paper saying as much. Of course Jon turned down the same declaration from Stannis.  Neither knowing of the previous action.  Has Robbs ruling as The King in North been brought up since?  Does it even matter since officially he was a rebel and only kings can grant such titles?

I know this spans several books but it does tie in to ADwD.....kind of.....if you squint real hard.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Olorun Sand, on 21 November 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

Has Robbs ruling as The King in North been brought up since?

We haven't directly heard from it since the letter presumably detailing all this was entrusted to Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover to make for Greywater Watch. Incidentally the seat of the same little crannogman who might be the last surviving insider on R+L=J.

Olorun Sand, on 21 November 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

Does it even matter since officially he was a rebel and only kings can grant such titles?

Indeed neither surviving faction in the North (Lannister backed Boltons or Stannis)* consider Robb to have been a rightful king, but only a rebel. The legitimization won't count in their eyes, just as it wouldn't have counted if Balon Greyjoy used his kingly powers in that way during his first and failed rebellion... but it might still be important. Should Jon wish to defy both claimants for the Iron Throne and continue Robb's kingdom, he can try so now with increased authority (cause in that kingdom, it counts). Should he need some extra convincer when entreating other Northmen to rally for Stannis / join him against the Others / whatever, he can go "You declared for Robb, well Robb chose me as his heir and I tell you to..." - not legally binding, but perhaps convincing to some.


* ETA: except for House Mormont. Iirc, they still declare for Robb's kingdom.


ETA: There is a thread where all this is discussed in detail: http://asoiaf.wester...nd-robbs-letter

Edited by The Dornishman's Wife, 21 November 2011 - 03:30 PM.

[alguien]

Dragonfish, on 19 November 2011 - 11:12 PM, said:

People on this board keep saying it was Ser Bonifer Hasty, but I don't recall where the books tell us this.

Its not said explicitly.  But its pretty 100% implied.  In AFFC, someone (I think it was Jaime) talks about how Ser Bonifer was quite the tourney knight but for some unknown reason gave it all up and became quite a religious knight instead.

Then in ADWD Barristan remembers how Dany's mother was in love with a knight far below her in station, and how after she was made to marry (because of a prophecy by the dwarf woman/child of the forest) the knight gave up tourneys and became the religious because no one but the Mother could compare to Dany's mom.  Or some such thing.

So yeah, Bonifer was into Dany's mom and she apparently loved him back.

[Olorun Sand]

The Dornishman, on 21 November 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

We haven't directly heard from it since the letter presumably detailing all this was entrusted to Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover to make for Greywater Watch. Incidentally the seat of the same little crannogman who might be the last surviving insider on R+L=J.


Indeed neither surviving faction in the North (Lannister backed Boltons or Stannis)* consider Robb to have been a rightful king, but only a rebel. The legitimization won't count in their eyes, just as it wouldn't have counted if Balon Greyjoy used his kingly powers in that way during his first and failed rebellion... but it might still be important. Should Jon wish to defy both claimants for the Iron Throne and continue Robb's kingdom, he can try so now with increased authority (cause in that kingdom, it counts). Should he need some extra convincer when entreating other Northmen to rally for Stannis / join him against the Others / whatever, he can go "You declared for Robb, well Robb chose me as his heir and I tell you to..." - not legally binding, but perhaps convincing to some.


* ETA: except for House Mormont. Iirc, they still declare for Robb's kingdom.


ETA: There is a thread where all this is discussed in detail: http://asoiaf.wester...nd-robbs-letter

Thanks! My thoughts exactly on Jon using it as a rallying cry.  Once or if  the fake Arya is revealed and the decree comes out the Boltons will be in it deep.  Roose is a cunning man but since he was at Harrenhal at the time I don't think he knows of the decree and thus had no plan to counter.

I completley forgot Robb sent two parties to find Graywater Watch with his will and not just plans to retake Moat Cailin.

[ghost the direwolf]

Gillio, on 20 November 2011 - 05:16 PM, said:

"one skinchanger can sense another............................... The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it"

I guess Varamir couid sense the skill level of the other skinchanger too, remember he's hung out with skinchangers all his life

thanks !

[The White Wolf of Winter]

Dragonfish, on 12 November 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

It's in AFFC, the chapter where Brienne and her companions travel to the Quiet Isle. There is a novice gravedigger there who keeps face hidden, has a limp, and is apparently well-liked by Dog.

I was also wondering about this so I looked it up:  "...and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne struggling to dig a grave."
I don't know how I missed that the first time, but now I'm convinced! Thanks!

[the silent speaker]

Olorun Sand, on 21 November 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

In A Storm of Swords Robb declared Jon a Stark before his bannermen.  Even had them place their house seals on the paper saying as much.

We have not seen this paper and do not know this for sure. Personally I doubt it but have no non-problematic alternative.

Question: Melisandre saw a grey girl on a dying horse, "and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away." Alys Karstark shows no sign of crumbling. Could the grey girl be someone else? Jeyne Westerling, perhaps?

[Stannis the Great]

Alys Karstark was near death due to the cold. I guess that was the interpretation of crumbling.

[lostcause]

Right so GRRM had initially wanted a 5 year gap, to push the Stark children from teens to adults or kids to teens.

He discarded this...do we know if he plans on any time jump then? Will WoW jump say 1 year? Or DoS do so?

Or is it unknown as of yet.

[Walder_Frey]

GRRM has stated that he has given up on the idea of a gap, too many moving pieces for it to be plausible.

That being said, he sure does love surprising his fans, so I wouldn't say it's completely impossible. However, my guess is that the gap would be in between the Sixth and Seventh books. You know, like a 10 year gap for winter to play out.

Edit: I believe GRRM actually implemented the gap for the television program. I forget where, but in an interview he said that all the characters had to be older, because it would be illegal to portray a 13 year old (Dany) having "relations" with an adult.

Therefore, everyone is five years older. That's why Jon and Robb look 20-25 instead of 15-17. That's why Dany looks 17-18, why Neddard looks 45 instead of 35. Everyone is a bit older in the television series.

Edited by Walder_Frey, 28 November 2011 - 12:52 PM.

[gogorath]

Walder_Frey, on 28 November 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

GRRM has stated that he has given up on the idea of a gap, too many moving pieces for it to be plausible.

That being said, he sure does love surprising his fans, so I wouldn't say it's completely impossible. However, my guess is that the gap would be in between the Sixth and Seventh books. You know, like a 10 year gap for winter to play out.

Edit: I believe GRRM actually implemented the gap for the television program. I forget where, but in an interview he said that all the characters had to be older, because it would be illegal to portray a 13 year old (Dany) having "relations" with an adult.

Therefore, everyone is five years older. That's why Jon and Robb look 20-25 instead of 15-17. That's why Dany looks 17-18, why Neddard looks 45 instead of 35. Everyone is a bit older in the television series.

The five-year gap long predates the TV show.  He originally wanted to age up the younger characters merely for the story, so it was most realistic/they were more capable.  However, when he began writing AFFC, he found he was constantly having to flashback/explain what had happened and he didn't like it.

The discussion of the TV aging up was separate and did have a lot to do with the adult nature of what some of the characters have to go through.  I suspect acting quality was another issue (it's easier to get good actors older) though I don't think it was ever said.  But the five year gap was getting ditched when the program was being created, not the other way around.

[Apokalips_]

I have a small question. Don't know if it's on the right spot.

1 - In Melisandre Chapter, in page417, she said that stannis was younger son, living in the shadow of his elder brother. But, Stannis is the big brother, not Robert :|. Isn't this a big mistake?
2 - In a Clash of Kings, it's said that tyrion lost a nephew in the battle of Oxcart. Tyrion doesn't have any nephews, except Cersei kids.

Any toughts about this?

[S_Id]

Stannis is 2 years younger than Robert according to the wiki.

I can't find anything regarding Tyrion's nephew in CoK, do you have a page number?

[Apokalips_]

OMG; i was so certain that Robert was the middle brother. ARGH. Thx on that info, on the matter of Tyrion nephew, i'll look it up later so we can see through that.

I found another thypo but this is unimportant. (Because all hands of gold are gold - It was supposed to be cold ).

Yeah, i have nothing better to notice ^^

[gogorath]

Apokalips_, on 29 November 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

OMG; i was so certain that Robert was the middle brother. ARGH. Thx on that info, on the matter of Tyrion nephew, i'll look it up later so we can see through that.

I found another thypo but this is unimportant. (Because all hands of gold are gold - It was supposed to be cold ).

Yeah, i have nothing better to notice ^^

If Stannis was older than Robert, he'd have likely led the Rebellion, as he'd have a better claim originally.  Stannis was the middle child.

I have a feeling that Tyrion may have been -- as a lot of people do -- referring to a cousin that is of the age relationship of a nephew as a nephew.  I referred to most of my dad's cousins as "Uncle" despite them technically being cousins.  But it's weird at age 10 to call your 40-year old cousin "cousin."

[TyrionsFlagon]

I read in another post that Theon has lost his member. Is that true?

Also, what do you think the point of the prologue was? I feel like it was pretty unrelated to the rest of the book and I'm having trouble understanding why it was in there.

[S_Id]

Whether his member has been removed or not is still up for debate. From what is said in the book it seems very likely that Ramsey has done something to it though.

I thought it was just giving us an insight into warging, especially the whole 'second life' of a warg. This is particularly important in Jon's case and given Melisandre's vision of him becoming a wolf then a man again could very well be how he beats death (if he does).

[south-victor]

Er I was wondering about the heads sent by catapult into Meereen that someone (shakaz?) told Barristan about, and then Barristan was relieved that it meant war.
whose heads were these?

[Dragonfish]

south-victor, on 30 November 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

Er I was wondering about the heads sent by catapult into Meereen that someone (shakaz?) told Barristan about, and then Barristan was relieved that it meant war.
whose heads were these?

I assumed they were the heads of the hostages, but others have argued that they could be the heads of some of the pale mare victims.