The northmen inside and outside Winterfell. Conspiracy? The GNC - The Grand Northern Conspiracy

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

I would hate it if they betray Stannis.It may happen though

But you can also say that they may need a friendly King in the South .

[Lord Bear Mormont]

With the dynamics of all the different northern houses in and around Winterfell, the only conclusion I can come up with is bloodshed. I think there are traitors in both camps.

[B'Tash]

The Northmen cannot betray Stannis because (if I understand correctly) they didn't swear a fealthy to him - Stannis is just one of the pretendenders for the Iron Trone, he is not King. Anyway, the Northmen do not care anymore for Iron Trone, they declared independence and this will not change even though Rob was killled together with many of the nobles during RW. When idea of indepedece takes hold it will not dissapear just like that - we khow that from real life also. I do not see Westeros survives at the end of the series as one kingdom, at least not with the North - the only way that might still happen is if a Stark (through father or mother) ends on the Iron Trone :cool4:

[Beanie]

Lots of interesting points and great catches!

But I think that everybody tiptoeing around Jon trying to protect him is a bit too much wishful thinking, don't you think? As the Northmen are so set on honour and traditions they might not really be considering him as a part of the equation: the oath to the NW means a lot to them, as to Jon..

And re: Blackfish putting on a show for Jamie.. Catelyn truly didn't care for Jon at all ("It should have been you") Ned never told her, so in the eyes of her family he is a constant reminder of her husband's infidelity.. But then, admittedly, Blackfish did spend a lot of time with Robb...

oh, and I do so hope that Manderly has a few more tricks up his sleeve! But he is playing a dangerous game: plotting against the Boltons and killing off Freys, and NOT letting Stannis know that Davos is alive. Even if he serves WF on the silver platter, it would be very hard to convince Stannis that they were on the same side all along...

[jarl the climber]

Lots of interesting points and great catches!

But I think that everybody tiptoeing around Jon trying to protect him is a bit too much wishful thinking, don't you think? As the Northmen are so set on honour and traditions they might not really be considering him as a part of the equation: the oath to the NW means a lot to them, as to Jon..

And re: Blackfish putting on a show for Jamie.. Catelyn truly didn't care for Jon at all ("It should have been you") Ned never told her, so in the eyes of her family he is a constant reminder of her husband's infidelity.. But then, admittedly, Blackfish did spend a lot of time with Robb...

oh, and I do so hope that Manderly has a few more tricks up his sleeve! But he is playing a dangerous game: plotting against the Boltons and killing off Freys, and NOT letting Stannis know that Davos is alive. Even if he serves WF on the silver platter, it would be very hard to convince Stannis that they were on the same side all along...

I always thought that Manderly probaly has a letter from Davos to Stannis explaining the agreement that he and Davos made. Manderly might have sent part of his fleet with Davos in order that it would be seen and reported to Roose, for all we know Roose might think that Manderly is thinking of moving against the Dreadfort while he is tied down at Winterfell. Davos also mentions that there seems to be a lack of knowledge in White Harbor about what is happening at the wall, there is no talk of wights and giants. I wonder if he and Manderly had any discussions about this and if he convinced Manderly to send men there. I also wonder if the Pentoshi ship that Cotter Pyke comandeers for his Harhomme expedition has any connection to Varys/Illryio?

[Jayce]

I absolutely love the thought of a conspiracy here, and after reading this and various north chapters in Dance I believe you are on to something and that there is some bigger game afoot that we will (hopefully) soon see the fruits of.

I don't really have anything other then my opinion or desire to add, but I will say that I'd like it if the North took everything back from Stannis and Roose/Frey regardless of who that is under (Jon, Rickon, Manderly, etc).

[Curly Girl]

Based on what?

The Ironbron quite comfortably held Moat Cailin but only lost it down to Euron pulling out most of the troops and the Boltons wanting to retake it. The Crannogmen with their poison darts were an inconveniance at best.

I think they poisoned their water supply too. And they couldn't get out to replenish their food store. As sieges go, I think the Crannogmen are pretty good at it. In their own surreptitious way. Even Roose was afraid to travel through the area.

[Jayce]

I'm still looking at this north conspiracy theory and I found this little nugget in DWD:

From the first Jon chapter. Stannis asks Jon who Lyanna Mormont is and Jon answers him, she is Lady Maege's youngest daughter (about 10 years old) and she replies to Stannis' summon with;

Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK

Jon then reflects;

Maege Mormont had ridden south with Robb, Jon knew. Her eldest daughter had joined the Young Wolf's host as well. Even if both of them had died, however, Lady Maege had other daughters, some with children of their own. Had they gone with Robb as well? Surely Lady Maege would have left at least one of the older girls behind as castellan. He did not understand why Lyanna should be writing Stannis.

Why indeed? Also a bit later in Jon VII he gets a letter from Stannis;

And we had other help, unexpected but most welcome, from a daughter of Bear Island. Alysane Mormont, whose men name her the She-Bear, hid fighters inside a gaggle of fishing sloops and took the ironmen unawares where they lay off the strand.

This was at Deepwood Motte. Why was Alysane there? Who was coordinating this attempt to free Deepwood Motte from the Ironmen (that Stannis took over and achieved without saying anything about another leader/coordinator, just mentions unexpected help from people already there).

Stannis then goes on to say;

... more northmen coming in as word spreads of our victory. Fisherfolk, freeriders, hillmen, crofters from the deep of the wolfswood and villagers who fled their homes along the stony shore to escape the ironmen, survivors from the battle outside the gates of Winterfell, man once sworn to the Hornwoods, the Cerwyns, and the Tallharts.

So Alysane was there with men from the Hornwoods, Cerwyns and Tallharts, were they working together? If so, under whose command before Stannis arrived? What has Stannis learned of the battle outside of Winterfell from these men?

So many unanswered questions.

[Mulled Wino]

I read about half this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating.

I've been kicking this around lately regarding the northern conspiracy.

1) i think manderly/tallhart/glover/cerwyan/hornwoods are working together with the Umber. They all have common cause and lines of communication. Roose sent the majority of the Glovers and Tallharts and some Cerwyns to their certain death at Duskendale. I also believe that this event is enough, along with the Red Wedding, to unitr all the Northern lords not in the Bolton camp. I dont consider the Ryswells in his camp either. They are also in close enough proximity to communicate secretly.

2) the umbers have frey hostages to capture to trade for greatjohn right in the castle with them. Hosteen will be captured by the combined Manderly/Umber forces.

3) Stannis will be spared and supported as he already rescued Deepwood Motte and his hand went and found Rickon. Stannis will have to marry some folks (grudgingly) and conceed bolton lands and probably take some wildlings south with him.

Sorry cant finish now. My kids have interrupted my train of thought at least 10x.

3)

[Dolorous Ali]

3) Stannis will be spared and supported as he already rescued Deepwood Motte and his hand went and found Rickon. Stannis will have to marry some folks (grudgingly) and conceed bolton lands and probably take some wildlings south with him.

Sorry cant finish now. My kids have interrupted my train of thought at least 10x.

3)

So, how will Selyse Florent die?

I think that it's all too good to be true! I hate the Boltons, but I don't see them outsmarted that easily. Roose doesn't struck me as a kind of man who justs sits on his ass while he knows these lords are not loyal to him. I think he knows what Robb's will contained and how to prevent it, though he might fail, or at least I hope so.

[Jayce]

Maege and her daughters according to the wiki;

Lady Maege Mormont, currently missing.

{Dacey Mormont}, her eldest daughter. Slain at the Red Wedding.

Alysane Mormont, her daughter and heir to Bear Island.

Lyra Mormont, her daughter.

Jorelle Mormont, her daughter.

Lyanna Mormont, her daughter.

Lady Maege is currently missing, Dacey is dead, Alysane is with Stannis and Lyanna is holding Bear Island. So where are Lyra and Jorelle? (and how old are they)

[redriver]

Maege and her daughters according to the wiki;

Lady Maege Mormont, currently missing.

{Dacey Mormont}, her eldest daughter. Slain at the Red Wedding.

Alysane Mormont, her daughter and heir to Bear Island.

Lyra Mormont, her daughter.

Jorelle Mormont, her daughter.

Lyanna Mormont, her daughter.

Lady Maege is currently missing, Dacey is dead, Alysane is with Stannis and Lyanna is holding Bear Island. So where are Lyra and Jorelle? (and how old are they)

We can also ask where Torren Liddle is.Since his strange encounter with Bran and co as they journeyed north he has been absent from the page.

He is not in Stannis host.He did not turn up to the Karstark-Thenn wedding at the wall,as other senior northern clansmen did.

He seems very knowledgeable about northern affairs,particularly about Winterfell and the importance of Starks.

He has a son at the wall,a son with Stannis.He knows the Stark sons (at least one) escaped.

I think he is the ideal candidate to orchestrate a northern conspiracy,perhaps positioning himself in Winterfell as part of it.

[DurararaFTW]

I read about half this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating.

I've been kicking this around lately regarding the northern conspiracy.

1) i think manderly/tallhart/glover/cerwyan/hornwoods are working together with the Umber. They all have common cause and lines of communication. Roose sent the majority of the Glovers and Tallharts and some Cerwyns to their certain death at Duskendale. I also believe that this event is enough, along with the Red Wedding, to unitr all the Northern lords not in the Bolton camp. I dont consider the Ryswells in his camp either. They are also in close enough proximity to communicate secretly.

2) the umbers have frey hostages to capture to trade for greatjohn right in the castle with them. Hosteen will be captured by the combined Manderly/Umber forces.

3) Stannis will be spared and supported as he already rescued Deepwood Motte and his hand went and found Rickon. Stannis will have to marry some folks (grudgingly) and conceed bolton lands and probably take some wildlings south with him.

Sorry cant finish now. My kids have interrupted my train of thought at least 10x.

3)

It'd be rather strange for them to be supporting Stannis while orchastrating a conspiracy behind his back. Stannis is going into this battle thinking Manderly killed Davos. Dangerous game they're playing.

[Jayce]

A very dangerous game. I hope to be awed when it is revealed.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Maege and her daughters according to the wiki;

Lady Maege Mormont, currently missing.

{Dacey Mormont}, her eldest daughter. Slain at the Red Wedding.

Alysane Mormont, her daughter and heir to Bear Island.

Lyra Mormont, her daughter.

Jorelle Mormont, her daughter.

Lyanna Mormont, her daughter.

Lady Maege is currently missing, Dacey is dead, Alysane is with Stannis and Lyanna is holding Bear Island. So where are Lyra and Jorelle? (and how old are they)

While we can't be sure exactly where Lady Maege is we do know this from ADWD The King's Prize

“Do you have brothers?” Asha asked her keeper.

“Sisters,” Alysane Mormont replied, gruff as ever. “Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on

Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered.”

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

We can also ask where Torren Liddle is.Since his strange encounter with Bran and co as they journeyed north he has been absent from the page.

He is not in Stannis host.He did not turn up to the Karstark-Thenn wedding at the wall,as other senior northern clansmen did.

He seems very knowledgeable about northern affairs,particularly about Winterfell and the importance of Starks.

He has a son at the wall,a son with Stannis.He knows the Stark sons (at least one) escaped.

I think he is the ideal candidate to orchestrate a northern conspiracy,perhaps positioning himself in Winterfell as part of it.

Sounds like certain hooded person we are so fond of.

[Young Wolf's Vanguard]

It'd be rather strange for them to be supporting Stannis while orchastrating a conspiracy behind his back. Stannis is going into this battle thinking Manderly killed Davos. Dangerous game they're playing.

They aren't. None of them.

[Mulled Wino]

It'd be rather strange for them to be supporting Stannis while orchastrating a conspiracy behind his back. Stannis is going into this battle thinking Manderly killed Davos. Dangerous game they're playing.

Im not saying they will all support Stannis, saying they will make common cause.

[Mulled Wino]

They aren't. None of them.

Not even Mormonts or hill tribes? Or WH conditionally?

[Jayce]

“Sisters,” Alysane Mormont replied, gruff as ever. “Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on

Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered.”

Thank you. So wherever Maege is Lyra and Jory are. I wonder if they were with her from the beginning (and just weren't mentioned) or if they joined her after. If after then they obviously had contact and knew where to meet her.