178 replies to this topic

[JonisHenryTudor]

gogorath, on 29 November 2011 - 07:16 PM, said:

Umm, Bran can't walk.  If he's going to do anything active in whatever role he takes, he's likely doing it from the cave.  People seem to have this image of him rounding up a bear or something and riding into battle.  I have a feeling if he leaves the cave it will be fleeing something.

I don't think Bran is going to find a lot of happiness outside of warging.  I'm always surprised when I read predictions of good things happening, especially to Starks.  More plot and change is driven by crisis, not happy times.  Bran isn't likely to be any different.

Yes and the special saddle design given to him in GoT has a purpose for more than just horse and mules.

Edited by JonisHenryTudor, 11 May 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[SunsetSeaSailor]

BearandMaidenFair, on 10 May 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Is it possible Jojen is actually going to replace BR and Bran will go on to bigger things? And what indication is there that BR is dying?

Jojen is not a greenseer. He has greensight but cannot warg. Bran can do both so he's being trained as a greenseer. The implication is that Bran has an important role to play in the coming battle against Others, but it has not been made clear what Bran will do and how the power of a greenseer will be useful against Others.

Many relevant things are not known like what is relationship between CotF and others, how the "final battle" will start (aside from it will happen during winter), how does being hooked up to weirwood may be useful against others, how the power to warg may be useful against others ( unless warg ability may be useful in fighting Other's ability to animate the dead though it's not clear where Bran can cutoff others from wights or warg others to control them.)

Anyway the point is that GRRM has not shown his cards on what Bran may be able to do but he will be very important against the battle against Others. So it is unlikely that Bran will be stuck on the tree roots inside the Cave of the CotF.  If I have to guess, Bran, Jojen, Meera, Hodor, and Summer will have to move out of the cave when the Other invasion occurs. It is unlikely that Others will leave them undisturbed in the cave even if the cave is warded against wights. (Is it warded against Others or Great Other? Not completely, if I have to venture to guess).

They may be forced to go to the Lands of Always Winter to deal with the leaders of Other invasion. Or they may go by Greywater Watch and probably see Jojen killed and also see GWW destroyed. The plot can go in many different directions in the tWoW.

[Drogon the Dread Reborn]

The only thing the troubles me is can Bran, if he does return and become the Lord Paramount of the North, can he have children, is he paralyzed from the waist down or is it just his feet.

[Black Crow]

JonisHenryTudor, on 11 May 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Yes and the special saddle design given to him in GoT has a purpose for more than just horse and mules.

You mean the saddle which he used to ride on horseback when he was at Winterfell and subsequently left there to be plundered or burned.

[CerseisPimp]

Bran is crippled.  The Greenseer said he will not walk but will be able to fly.  Bran wanted to be a knight, but that is beyond the Greenseer's power.  This book is a lot about sacrifice and dead ends.  Like life.

[The Lady Raven]

GRRM said Bran will be one of the POV characters in TWOW-- he would have the mos boring arc ever if he just stood there becoming a tree for the entire duration of the book... Besides, GRRM has built up a lot of sympathy for Bran, but not in a Ned way where he uses it to screw us over, but in a genuine way (if it can be believed in this series...)

So no, I don't think he's going to end up a tree, at least not for another 100 years

[Lissa Martell]

I think Bran will stay with the CotF. His being in the tree will give us a look at events that have happened. Stories that can't be told because the people involved are all dead.

Through him we'll learn more about Lyanna and Eddard and Brandon. Possibly others.

Sometimes people get crappy endings. I do wonder what will happen to Meera, Jojen, and Hodor though.  They're all seemingly trapped there.

[Maia]

The Lady Raven, on 27 May 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

GRRM said Bran will be one of the POV characters in TWOW-- he would have the mos boring arc ever if he just stood there becoming a tree for the entire duration of the book...

On the contrary. Bran would be able to see important past events and also could be used to provide us with a PoV of contemporary events, when GRRM has no resident PoV in place. For all this time, GRRM had to introduce new PoVs or, in some cases, move PoVs in a fairly contrived manner, to show us some of the scenes that he considered important. Now he doesn't have to do this anymore.
Bran learning his ropes would explain the haphazardness of what we'd see through him.

Also, once Bran learns to use the weirwood network and warg into stuff at a distance, he'd be able to affect things far more than he ever could. Being on the run, his handicapped body constantly in danger or in need of attention, he'd be able to do far less.

Re: Bran escaping and cave being overrun soon after their arrival, him barely having learned anything and yet managing to become great flying by the seat of his pants would be incredibly clichee. Like the most overused fantasy trope ever.  That their party managed to reach the cave without Bran getting terminal frostbite in paralyzed parts of his body was somewhat contrived as it is, and things are far worse now. IMHO, Meera and Summer will be sent south and warn NW.

I also predict that the last PoV of the series will be Bran's and will be set long after the end and it will have him watch a Spring through the trees.

Edited by Maia, 29 May 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Snow Whyte]

Maia, on 29 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I also predict that the last PoV of the series will be Bran's and will be set long after the end and have him watch a Spring through the trees.

I could see this. And it would indeed be the "bittersweet" ending that has apparently been promised, if all the rest of the characters we know and love have died by the time Spring comes again (depending on how long Winter lasts).

[Lissa Martell]

Do we know if Bran was controlling the Crow that was following Jon around cawing "Jon Snow"?  

If can Bran will figure out how to communicate with people beyond the wall he would be a great assest. I actually think Bran being in CotF is interesting.  Not the saddest fate out-there.

[Maia]

Snow Whyte, on 29 May 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

I could see this. And it would indeed be the "bittersweet" ending that has apparently been promised, if all the rest of the characters we know and love have died by the time Spring comes again (depending on how long Winter lasts).

Well, I kinda thought that it would be a spring in the somewhat distant future and that Bran would be watching his siblings' descendants, maybe? Or just some random Westerosi.

I don't believe that Martin will kill _all_ PoVs, but IMHO it would feel cheap if the "Long Night" will turn out to be just a year or 2.
I mean, again, a hoary fantasy clichee - something bad bides it's time and prepares for thousands of years, attacks when humanity is at it's weakest... And in a year or 2 the threat is completely defeated. It was OK in Tolkien, because there was an actual reason for it, but becomes progressively less tolerable in fantasies that followed him, where it happened just because.

This has been billed as a Long Night, as an exceedingly long winter and GRRM has proven himself incapable of stretching the on-screen timeline over a decade or so it should take. So, I hope that he'd let the immediate  Others danger end/ sharpy diminish with some PoVs standing, but let it still be the depth of winter, with all the challenges of surviving it still ahead of them. And then show us some much later spring from Bran's PoV in the epilogue.

[Tini]

I think Bran will see something that makes him leave the cave prematurely. Jon's death and the events at the Wall, possibly.

His training has just started, so he may not be able to use his newfound abilities once he leaves. At least not unless he finds a weirwood, and he might still be lacking control when he finds one. There aren't that many weirwoods close to the Wall, so Bran might be cut off from weirwood knowledge.

Bloodraven can't leave the cave. And he may not be able to linger much longer. If Bran leaves now, he might lose his chance to learn from Bloodraven. Bloodraven won't be happy - but I think he can't stop Bran. If he tries, Bran might consider him an enemy - and that, too, would mean that Bran's training / learning will come to a sudden end.

[Prince Bran]

SwtLissa, on 27 May 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

I think Bran will stay with the CotF. His being in the tree will give us a look at events that have happened. Stories that can't be told because the people involved are all dead.

Through him we'll learn more about Lyanna and Eddard and Brandon. Possibly others.

Sometimes people get crappy endings. I do wonder what will happen to Meera, Jojen, and Hodor though.  They're all seemingly trapped there.

I totally agree that he's going to be used as a plot detective, but I also think it's strange that people assume he will live out his days in a cave. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

Bloodraven didn't spend his life in the cave, not until he was extremely old. On the contrary -- during his life BR was a badass, respected & feared character. People could tell there was something otherworldly about him, and he was said to have a thousand eyes and one. Newsflash people -- Bran has those same powers! Therefore, he also has the capacity to be a badass character who is respected and feared. Is Bran really going to stay cooped up in a cave for the rest of his life just because he can't walk? Doran Martell is doing alright for a guy who can't get around, and it'd be pretty out of character for Bran to give up just because it might be difficult.

People seem to want to reject this on the assumption that it'd be too happy of an outcome, or something to that effect. But it's not, really. Bran may be becoming a darker character, whether it be from cannibalism or old gods blood magic, I don't expect this character to be happy all the time and have everything handed to him. But to argue that he'll be fine with being stuck in a cave for the rest of his life, and not to have something more, flies in the face of the evidence -- Bloodraven, the only comparable character we know of, led an active, politically prominent life.

Edited by Prince Bran, 05 June 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Neo]

Prince Bran, on 05 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I totally agree that he's going to be used as a plot detective, but I also think it's strange that people assume he will live out his days in a cave. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

Bloodraven didn't spend his life in the cave, not until he was extremely old. On the contrary -- during his life BR was a badass, respected & feared character. People could tell there was something otherworldly about him, and he was said to have a thousand eyes and one. Newsflash people -- Bran has those same powers! Therefore, he also has the capacity to be a badass character who is respected and feared. Is Bran really going to stay cooped up in a cave for the rest of his life just because he can't walk? Doran Martell is doing alright for a guy who can't get around, and it'd be pretty out of character for Bran to give up just because it might be difficult.

People seem to want to reject this on the assumption that it'd be too happy of an outcome, or something to that effect. But it's not, really. Bran may be becoming a darker character, whether it be from cannibalism or old gods blood magic, I don't expect this character to be happy all the time and have everything handed to him. But to argue that he'll be fine with being stuck in a cave for the rest of his life, and not to have something more, flies in the face of the evidence -- Bloodraven, the only comparable character we know of, led an active, politically prominent life.

The big difference is that Bran is a cripple.  GRRM took his legs away from him for a reason, and IMO it's so he remains trapped to his weirwood throne for the rest of his days.

His journey to the cave has been long and perilous.  GRRM wouldn't have spent all that time emphasising the arduous nature of Bran's trek if he was only making a temporary pit-stop North of the Wall.  IMO his mind will be able to leave the cave, but his body never will.

[Hodor knows]

I genuinely enjoy the Bran chapters, but I found the last couple to be a bit depressing. The thought of him sitting in that dark cave forever is just awful, but that said, I don't think Bran's body ever leaves that cave.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Neo, on 15 June 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

The big difference is that Bran is a cripple.  GRRM took his legs away from him for a reason, and IMO it's so he remains trapped to his weirwood throne for the rest of his days.

His journey to the cave has been long and perilous.  GRRM wouldn't have spent all that time emphasising the arduous nature of Bran's trek if he was only making a temporary pit-stop North of the Wall.  IMO his mind will be able to leave the cave, but his body never will.

Bran's broken legs have led him to following his current path, otherwise he would never had been open to it. He wanted to be a Knight and still does and wouldn't  have given that up if not for being a cripple. The broken body has served its purpose, it does not need to make him remain in the cave.

[tormund's beard]

TheNorthernWarrior, on 17 June 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Bran's broken legs have led him to following his current path, otherwise he would never had been open to it. He wanted to be a Knight and still does and wouldn't  have given that up if not for being a cripple. The broken body has served its purpose, it does not need to make him remain in the cave.

but he does, he is the "Next blood raven", it's not as sad as it seems he's going to be a force of nature the world needs someone like him.

actually it is sad but is necesary.

[One More Gun]

Bran is the focal point.  The command and control center.  The General in the bunker.  He's going to stay there.

[A Murder of Ravens]

Bran will be the ward of the North and the Lord of Winterfell at the end. Jon and Daenerys will rule Westeros as King and Queen.