145 replies to this topic

[Trinuviel]

Trinuviel, on 24 November 2011 - 07:24 AM, said:

Catelyn Stark
- losing her beloved husband (though Eddard stupidly engineered his own downfall and endagered his daughters because of that stubborn, rigid pride that he calls honour ). Then she had to repeatedly relive every the very worst nightmares of every parent: the deaths of her children, a missing child and another child trapped as a hostage to a family that pretty much takes the price for ruthlessness and cruelty.

I found her chapters absolutely heart-breaking to read.

[ipsuel]

I agree with those who say Viserys, Jeyne Poole, and Podrick Payne--for obvious reasons, all.

I would also add Stannis to the bunch. Living in your older brother's shadow, while that same brother treats someone else as his brother -- that always  made me feel sorry for him. More than that, his (seemingly) inability to smile and laugh... to me, that is so sad.

Can't believe no one said Bran or Arya (or did I miss it?). What's coming up for Bran seems SO sad... and poor Arya, being just a young and having to literally survive by any means -- so sad!

[Gala]

Joffrey?! Are you kidding? As I remember, Robert tried to make a connection, but after the episode with pregnant cat...he is not worth of pity!
I feel sorry for all innocent people that died in the series. I do not feel sorry, for example, for Cersei: she as well put everything on her head herself, like it was said about Catelyn. I feet deeply sorry for Jamie, as he was so stupid and proud all his life, that he lost himself, dancing to his father and sister's tune...stupid, very stupid + he regrets many of his actions.
What about Arya? Everything that happened to her...all those monsters! it is not a childhood, it is a hell.
Bran? Rickon? All those Robert's bastards? Podrick? he is a nice boy!!! And many other...they are children, innocent...


"though Eddard stupidly engineered his own downfall and endagered his daughters because of that stubborn, rigid pride that he calls honour"

Well, he really did make huge mistake by accepting the Hand's position... but really, he was the only decent man there...REALLY decent, a true Man...Yes, it was real honour (not pride) which was, of course, stupid, taking into account that there were only liars, snakes, moral monsters and simply scum around him in KL. My personal opinion is that he (as well as, all Starks) is the only character, who possesses all features that the King should have (except naivety).

Edited by Gala, 24 November 2011 - 07:53 AM.

[ipsuel]

Trinuviel, on 24 November 2011 - 07:24 AM, said:

Catelyn Stark
- losing her beloved husband (though Eddard stupidly engineered his own downfall and endagered his daughters because of that stubborn, rigid pride that he calls honour ). Then she had to repeatedly relive every the very worst nightmares of every parent: the deaths of her children, a missing child and another child trapped as a hostage to a family that pretty much takes the price for ruthlessness and cruelty.

I must be weird cuz I don't feel sorry for her, never have. She made poor decisions throughout and unfortunately, things just didn't go her way.

[SeanF]

ZacharyB, on 24 November 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

Not to mention he was killed while his sister, the only woman he truly loved, just stared on without pity. The guy was an asshole, but all he wanted to do was restore his family's honor and make a good life for him and his sister, and it got him crowned.

I think that's hard to sustain.  He loved Daenerys so much that he beat and tormented her;  sold her to Khal Drogo at the age of 13;  told her he'd happily see Drogo's warriors and horses fuck her if it gave him an army; attempted to rape her the night before her wedding to Drogo, and disregarded every bit of advice she gave him about how to survive among the Dothraki.  And, Daenerys was far from pitiless when he got "crowned".  There was just nothing she could do.

[LordBloodraven]

ZacharyB, on 24 November 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

Not to mention he was killed while his sister, the only woman he truly loved, just stared on without pity. The guy was an asshole, but all he wanted to do was restore his family's honor and make a good life for him and his sister, and it got him crowned.

For some reason, I've never understood Dany's lack of reaction on that scene. Viserys was a tool but hey, they were brother and sister

[SeanF]

LordBloodraven, on 24 November 2011 - 07:29 AM, said:

For some reason, I've never understood Dany's lack of reaction on that scene. Viserys was a tool but hey, they were brother and sister

She and Jorah were both frantically trying to stop Viserys from getting himself killed.  Despite the fact that Viserys had threatened to cut out her unborn child.

[Trinuviel]

ipsuel, on 24 November 2011 - 07:27 AM, said:

I must be weird cuz I don't feel sorry for her, never have. She made poor decisions throughout and unfortunately, things just didn't go her way.

I have never understood the animosity towards Catelyn (she's such a tragic figure), and I really don't understand the notion that she has brought all that grief upon herself. Nobody deserves to live through the total destruction of their family through murder and I have always found that she gave her son a lot of sensible advice. I blame Eddard, Robb (only a little bit because he was so young, but antagonising the Freys like that just shows that he had very little sense of Realpolitik, just like his father!), the Lannisters, Theon Greyjoy and let's not forget Littlefinger.

Capuring Tyrion was a huge mistake but bear in mind that she acted on the information she had, and there she was deliberately screwed over by Littlefinger.

Her freeing Jaime, I totally understood - she had just had the news of Bran and Rickon's "deaths" and she was hoping to save one of her remaining children.

[SeanF]

2661eire, on 23 November 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

By the way, what real disease or malady is "greyscale" supposed to represent?  I tried to find something similar on the Internet, but there's too much medical jargon.

I think there's a disease called "Stone Man Syndrome" which causes flesh to calcify, although I believe it's not infectious.

There are similarities too with small pox, or leprosy,

[Serie]

honestly, I pity all characters

[Trinuviel]

Gala, on 24 November 2011 - 07:27 AM, said:

"though Eddard stupidly engineered his own downfall and endagered his daughters because of that stubborn, rigid pride that he calls honour"

Well, he really did make huge mistake by accepting the Hand's position... but really, he was the only decent man there...REALLY decent, a true Man...Yes, it was real honour (not pride) which was, of course, stupid, taking into account that there were only liars, snakes, moral monsters and simply scum around him in KL. My personal opinion is that he (as well as, all Starks) is the only character, who possesses all features that the King should have (except naivety).

I quite agree that he was in most respects a good and honourable man not suited to the power plays in KL. However, he was repeatedly told and shown that The Game of Thrones is NOT played according to the rule of the knightly code that he subscribes to. What I really blame him for is revealing his knowledge of the incest to Cersei before he had gotten his daughters safely out of KL. He did that for mercy, but it was still an immensely stupid thing to do, mainly because it must stem from an inability to "read" people, and that can be an extremely dangerous failing, not only in the political viper's nest that is KL but in real life as well.

In my first reading of the series I found Eddard a very tragic character, which I still do but the tragedy is that he created his own downfall and miserably failed to protect his children. On taht note, I'll end this post that I quite enjoyed the portrayal of Eddard in the show as a well-intentioned and kind-hearthearted but ultimately ineffectual father when it comes to his daughters. Plus, they had Sean Bean

[Alexia]

On a minor side note, Ned doesn't subscribe to a knightly code.  He isn't a follower of the Seven and there are no knights in the North or under the old gods.

[Raksha the Demon]

Ser Gei, on 24 November 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

Jon Connington. I really like this homo, he's been protecting and training the son of his gay-daydream princeling for ages, living in exile, and just when they are ready to make their victorious return to Westeros, the poor fellow has got himself the greyscale. He sounds such a good and straight( :-) )-up guy, competent general, all-in-all a perfect mentor for Aegon, and then he is destined to die a gruesome death.

Well, at least he got to live long enough to get his home castle back and maybe even some greater things still to come.

The one thing that keeps me from liking Jon Connington is his plan to "end the Usurper's line for good and all"; which sounds to me like a desire to do to Tommen and Myrcella (and possibly Robert's bastards as well) what was done to Rhaenys and the infant presumed to be her brother.  He could at least get the Iron Throne before making up his mind to murder innocent children.  

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Trinuviel, on 24 November 2011 - 07:24 AM, said:

Catelyn Stark
- losing her beloved husband (though Eddard stupidly engineered his own downfall and endagered his daughters because of that stubborn, rigid pride that he calls honour ). Then she had to repeatedly relive every the very worst nightmares of every parent: the deaths of her children, a missing child and another child trapped as a hostage to a family that pretty much takes the price for ruthlessness and cruelty.

Not to mention she was mourning her father's death.

[Skeksi]

Lysa Arryn- the boy she loved was in love with her sister, her father tricked her into miscarrying her child, she was married to an old man with terrible breath who didn't really want her, she lost all her children except one sickly boy, and it turns out that her second husband only ever loved her sister after all- not to mention him murdering her.

Catelyn Stark- her husband is murdered, her daughters are held captive, she believes her younger sons have been murdered, when she thought she had left them somewhere safe, and she is murdered, having seen her son murdered in front of her eyes, and thinking all her children dead, bar Sansa (who is married into a family she hates).

Brienne- seems to pretty much get mocked and ridiculed by everyone, if not for her fighting skills, then for her looks. She's a more formidable fighter than most men, and believes passionately in the whole "knightly chivalry" thing, but because of her gender, she is scorned. Not to mention, everyone thinks she killed the man that she loved.

Tyrion- He definitely does the self pitying thing plenty himself, but I do have sympathy with him to a certain extent. His father blames him for the death of his mother, looks down on him and refuses to consider that Tyrion be allowed to inherit Casterly Rock. His sister despises him and mistreats him pretty much from birth. The only brother who he is fond of tricks him into thinking that his first wife is a prostitute that only slept with Tyrion because she was paid by Jaime, and only married him for his money. He's framed for the murder of his nephew, and runs into exile. I mean, he's not the most pleasant of characters in many ways, don't get me wrong, but I can sympathise to a certain extent.

There are others, but those are the first four that spring to mind.

Oh, one more- I don't know that I would say that I feel sorry for Varys, and I can definitely see why people distrust him once they've encountered him- he knows a scary amount, and no-one's sure of his agenda. BUT so many people seem to have an issue with him being a eunuch- like that is the reason he shouldn't be distrusted? I mean, someone mutilated him as a child and left him for dead, and this is his fault how, exactly?

[LordBloodraven]

SeanF, on 24 November 2011 - 07:33 AM, said:

She and Jorah were both frantically trying to stop Viserys from getting himself killed.  Despite the fact that Viserys had threatened to cut out her unborn child.

I know, I know, but I can't help pitying him.

[Trinuviel]

Alexia, on 24 November 2011 - 09:31 AM, said:

On a minor side note, Ned doesn't subscribe to a knightly code.  He isn't a follower of the Seven and there are no knights in the North or under the old gods.

That doesn't necessarily mean that he hasn't internalized the chivalric code as his own personal moral codex. In fact, one consistent them of these novels is the examination of the medieval chivalric ideal. We are constantly show characters who are knights (by therituals of the Seven), who in fact act like brutal monsters (Ser Gregor, Ser Meryn, etc.) but we are also shown characters whose behaviour exhibits the chivalric ideals of protecting the innocent, being just, etc. Eddard is certainly one of those, Brienne is another (was she ever officially made a knight?) and, sometimes, in his own twisted way, Sandor Clegane - who also repeatedly tries to educate Sansa on this particular aspect of Westerosi society. The fact that someone hasn't been dubbed Ser and anointed in a sept doesn't preclude them from modelling their behaviour according to the ideals of chivalry. Just as well as ordained knights can bear the title and pay lipservice to the code, but act in ways completely contrary to those ideals.

[Melpomene]

Jeyne Poole. Definitely. Barely a preteen and has to endure so much nasty crap...is under a fake identity, is married to a monster, no family around..

Penny. I mentioned this in another thread, but her story really makes me sad. Loses her brother, only true companions are a dog and a pig where they are constantly at risk for getting killed, is naive at times but really geniunely sweet, and Tyrion isn't exactly the most sympathetic...sure, he as helped her in some ways, but then he is hypocritical in a sense that he hates being treated differently for being a drawf, yet treats another drawf slightly harshly and thinks how ugly she is. He never seems to appreciate it when a woman actually treats him kindly and looks past his looks (unless she fits the requirement of being attractive).


Brienne. Again, for obvious reasons. Poor thing, no matter what she does she faces ridicule at every sentence.

Sweetrobin. Now I know he is dubbed a annoying for many readers, and it is true, but gotta feel bad for the boy. He wasn't raised properly, is stunted, constantly nervous, seems constantly very lonely and sad on a lot of levels, and now has a whole lot of pressure on his shoulders after being an official lord. Imagine growing up like that!

Shireen. She reminds me of Brienne in a sense that her ugliness is always mentioned - and it is sad since she is only a child. Plus she has only a couple of companions (Patchface, who is mentally unwell, and Storm, who is now sent far away) then she has Selyse for a mother, and an absent father. And now she might face some revulsion on by the Wildings because she has the disease, or even at risk of being a sacrifice for all we know.

Marcella and Tommen. Tommen faced some harshness by his mother, Marcella got whacked in the face. Overall, they are such sweet and smart kids, their circumstance is such a pity.


Then I feel so bad for any animals that get abused in the series. Yeeeaah, big animal lover here.

Edited by {Dances With Direwolves}, 24 November 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[Wroth of a dwarf]

Lollys Stokeworth.

[Trinuviel]

Wroth of a dwarf, on 24 November 2011 - 01:17 PM, said:

Lollys Stokeworth.

Seconded.