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The Citadel's Grand Conspiracy


99 replies to this topic

#81 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

I believe the Citadel would do anything to save itself, even if it ment thousands of lives(the grey plague anyone?).

As a religion the red lot can't even decide who their savior is, so that shows how fractured they are internally.

I believe it's the Valyrian religion which is actually magic but dogma made it a religion, thts integral to dragon breeding and is part of Danny's miracle.
Fire and blood.


#82 NotSoSilentSister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:38 AM

I believe the Citadel would do anything to save itself, even if it ment thousands of lives(the grey plague anyone?).


When the Grey Plague broke out in Oldtown, Quentin Hightower ordered the city closed and everyone killed who tried to escape. That was not so much saving the Citadel, but thousands and thousands of lives of Non-Old-Town inhabitants who would have died if the plague had spread over Westeros. It's basically a textbook example of someone acting in accordance with the principle that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The ruling class of Oldtown decided to sacrifice their own city (and potentially themselves) for the greater good of the rest of Westeros.

As far as I remember he was not opposed in this by the Maesters, who were also being put at high risk by this decision as the Citadel is located in Oldtown. One could even assume that they downright supported the decision (because otherwise it's hard to imagine how Hightower could have enforced it; the Maesters definitelly being part of the ruling class in Oldtown) - in this case the Grey-plague incident would be an argument for the altruistic bent of the Citadel.

#83 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:56 AM

Yes perhaps, unless it was In fact the Maesters who let the plague out, intentionally or not...


#84 NotSoSilentSister

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:47 AM

Yes perhaps, unless it was In fact the Maesters who let the plague out, intentionally or not...


Is there any hint whatsoever in the text for that theory? What would the Maesters have to gain from such a ploy? Especially since they themselves are put at great risk by it?

#85 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

Is there any hint whatsoever in the text for that theory? What would the Maesters have to gain from such a ploy? Especially since they themselves are put at great risk by it?


I don't think so, and it may have been unintentional, but I wouldn't be surpirsed if it was some experiment gone wrong as opposed to "a ship from the east".


#86 lysmonger

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:41 AM

I think the maestars specificially chose really bad advice for the targaryens at really good times...

Yes, you should attack Dorne this way....

No, your bastard brother wont jump to rebellion when you try to marry his halfsister off....

#87 NotSoSilentSister

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:39 AM

I don't think so, and it may have been unintentional, but I wouldn't be surpirsed if it was some experiment gone wrong as opposed to "a ship from the east".


It's not entirely impossible. But we know from Tyrion and the Jon Connigton chapters that Greyscale is a thing in Essos and has been for quite a while (the shrouded Lord rather predates Quenton Hightower), so applying occam's razor, "a ship from the east" looks pretty plausible.

#88 Asha Greyjoy:Feminist Icon

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:22 PM

Perhaps Doran Martell, Westerosi equivalent to Hans Blix, can write a strongly worder letter to Dany about her dragons.


Sorry to resurrect a long dead thread, but I can't not give respect to this solid esoteric political reference. Well played, Past-Tensed Captain Breath.

#89 Aerys Blackfyre

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:34 PM

this is the best theory I've read in a long while!



#90 srini

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:40 PM

According to Archmaester Marawyn, there is a secret society within the order of the maesters which is opposed to sorcery, prophecies, glass candles and dragons. They promote their views and interests in Seven Kingdoms, by intrigue.

They were responsible for extinction of dragons.

Probably, Sabotaged Targaryen's attempts to hatch dragons from petrified eggs.

May had a hand in the overthrow of House Targaryen.

Will oppose restoration of House Targaryen to Iron Thrown.



#91 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:48 PM

"Information is ammunition".

Adam Steiner.

;)

#92 Mulled Wino

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:49 PM

So if there is a chance to rid the world of magic completely, without the risk of it coming back to be used by one group or the other, I think it is a good thing. If there is a possibility to reach consensus on not using it, sure why not? The latter is less likely to me though.

I just don't see where this is coming from.  Seems to be a crux of your argument but there is magic in plenty of places in the world other than Westeros.  Active magic hatched the dragon eggs in Essos.  There seems to be a few other hubs of magic that Maesters can't touch.  I think its much more logical to assume the maestros want to control magic as it pertains to Westeros.  

 

Additionally, the maesters are with the Lords and bound to service.  Leaving out info or purposefully ignoring requests from these lords regarding magic, COTF, Others and all of that is shady on their part.  If they were as stand up as you seem to believe, they should be sharing the info they have with their lords they are bound in service too.  



#93 #Fire and Blood

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:33 PM

I get the whole Maesters do not like magic thing......but we must not forget about the Hightowers. 

 

The Hightowers are credited with finding the Citadel.  We also know that there are many reports of many generations of Hightowers locking themselves in their towers for decades at a time.  It was reported to us in the books that the current hightower has locked himself up top, and is frantically trying to get some magical spells to work.

 

The Maesters may be against certain types of magic; but if the Hightowers are the one's wielding the power, I think it would be a different story entirely.



#94 ICRYRAGE

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

I think everyone has one part of the Conspiracy, part of magic comes from dragons, so they wanted to get rid of them, but another part of magic comes from Blood.  I think the Maesters are also trying to breed out some of the Magic abilities that the Targs and Starks have in them.  (perhaps other families as well.)  The Starks have Warging abilities I think that come from the children of the forest, (though the marsh king) the Targs have their own abilities.  If you breed Starks to southern lords then over several generations these natural skills will fade away.  I think that is the secret that is happening at the Citadel.  Also the book from the first book that Ned reads is a history of all the houses and their lineages.  Why would the Maesters have such a detailed book if not to control the family lines? 



#95 RenlyFan322

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:02 PM

The reason to rid the realm of Targaryens could also have been to prevent the return of dragons.

The maesters knew about the prophecies better than anyone, probably even better than the Targs themselves.

They studied astrology and the sky for signs, I assume they do that because they believe in the prophecies about the waking of dragons.

I don't think they want chaos.

One thing that should be noted is also that the Targaryens are by their very nature worse rulers than everyone else. (This is so bad that there is even a condition, "Targaryen madness," named after them.) Mainly, this has to do with the incestuous marriages the Targaryens have. (Even Joffrey, the only other bad ruler of all the Seven Kingdoms, is a product of incest. Other evil rulers exist in Westeros, but still, one could associate incest with evil kings.) The maesters could believe that if the Targaryens lose their dragons, they will either have to marry out, to secure alliances with other houses, or they will be overthrown. Either way, the maesters could believe removing the dragons would improve the stock of kings in Westeros, by stopping the crazy inbred Targaryens.


Edited by RenlyFan322, 01 September 2014 - 10:03 PM.


#96 Paper Waver

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:40 AM

As tze proposed in her thread, the lore about dragonslaying might have been deliberately misguided after the Conquest. I think Meraxes might have been shot with a poisoned bolt/arrow in the Neck. The Dornish are known to use poison without any shame at all. Perhaps the arrows of Brandon Snow were magically enhanced to wield extremely deadly poison.

 

BTW, I really like her observation that a dragon stabbed in the eye (Bloodraven) is still alive whereas the last dragon king was killed by a slash at the throat (Aerys). That means there might be something wrong about the story of Serwyn who approached the dragon by showing her own reflection with his shield and stabbed her in the eye. The inspiration for Serwyn comes from Perseus and Medusa and we know that Perseus used the same trick but beheaded Medusa, not stabbed her in the eye. 

 

The last dragons which were twisted and malformed were probably poisoned by the Citadel and the source of their lore comes from the legendary scrolls, the Death of Dragons.


Edited by Paper Waver, 02 September 2014 - 01:41 AM.


#97 jabulaniman

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:22 PM

I had a theory, which may or may not be crazy, but here it goes:

We know:
-Maesters have an obsession with eradicating dragons.
-Dragons are powerful and dangerous.
-Dragons hard hard to tame.
-Dragon Eggs are rare, valuable, and can be hatched (which specific methods work we do not yet know)
-Euron Greyjoy is obsessed with dragons
-Euron Greyjoy left his post on the Shield Islands to head to Oldtown.

We suspect:
-According to the popular opinion the faceless man Jaqen H'ghar was the Alchemist in Old Town in the prologue of book three, and thusly assumed Pate's identitiy in Sam's last chapter. Jaqen (if it is indeed him) therefore is in posession of a secret key.
-Balon Greyjoy died quite suddenly, and some suggest Euron hired a FM to take him out to pave his way to kinghood.

Okay, now that we've gotten that out of the way, heres my theory:
The Citadel has a stash of something wich they need to keep under lock and key. It is so secretive that only the Archmaesters have a key to open it. I think that their great secret is a hidden cache of dragon eggs. They have probably hunted down all the dragon eggs they could get their hands on, so they could not be hatched. Euron, through his great travels has heard tales of this, and concocts a plan to raise a fleet of dragons. To do this he contacts the greatest assassins in the land: the Faceless Men. Therefore, Jaqen will pilfer the key (as he has), stay undercover until Euron arrives, and then give him the key. The result? Euron Greyjoy owns a bunch of eggs which he may be able to actually hatch.

Sorry the post is so long, and is sort of off topic, but I think it sort of applies here. Please discuss.


Don't apologize for long posts - instead, I THANK you for taking your time to post all this.

Good thinking, the theory sounds plausable.

#98 jabulaniman

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:25 PM

So many juicy posts in this thread, I love it. And then I feel guilty about being a leecher with no cool original theory of my own.

#99 Mitt Baratheon

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 10:55 PM

I agree that skinchanging can be used for bad purposes, but as far as we know it is too hard to do, (even Varamyr did not succeed in warging another human) unless you find someone like Hodor that lets you inside. I don't agree with skinchanging but it does not seem to be a very destructive force as of yet. That can change however.
 

Considering the effect Varamyr attempting to warg into a human had on the human, I would say it is INSANELY destructive.  Imagine how useful his ability is - even if he can't control a human, he can drive them so insane they tear themselves apart, even after he has already left their body.  An assassin could just warg briefly into his target then back out, and everyone would think they just went mad.


Edited by Mitt Baratheon, 05 September 2014 - 10:56 PM.


#100 unitron

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:52 PM

Considering the effect Varamyr attempting to warg into a human had on the human, I would say it is INSANELY destructive.  Imagine how useful his ability is - even if he can't control a human, he can drive them so insane they tear themselves apart, even after he has already left their body.  An assassin could just warg briefly into his target then back out, and everyone would think they just went mad.

Which would be a handy way to get Theon's father to appear to have accidentally slipped and fallen from that bridge/walkway.