71 replies to this topic

[Arya_Stark666]

DWD is out, but I guess it depends what country you live in if you've actually gotten it yet or not!
It's out in the US and the UK, that's all I know.

BUT I can't find a copy!!!!! I wanted to buy one but Barnes and Noble was picked clean. Allegedly, they claim to have them in the store, but they aren't with the other Martin books, bestsellers or the little stands where they're doing a promo for GoT. Very irritating!!!
Also, I'm a cheapskate, so I refuse to buy it from them online. Some people are selling it on amazon or ebay, but a lot are signed copies...and I'd like one but I don't really want to pay over double the price when I didn't even get to meet GRRM personally. Some have them for an ok price, but I'd still end up paying more because of the shipping.
Maybe I'd do better to wait for the paperback

[Crown]

In Holland A Dance With Dragons is split in two volumes. The first volume was released back in November, and the second end of February. I'm now almost done with the first volume, and then I need two ten to twenty days before I can continue. Fuck my life.

[Jeff_God_Of_Biscuits]

I am 300 pages in but FfC definitely feels transitional; almost the start of a new story, with all of that ground-laying and foreshadowing work to be done.  GoT had the benefit of having an entirely new world and mythology to establish;  FfC suffers a bit by comparison because with so much already known, the fresh details seem somehow less consequential.   Given the long arc of the series, it will take time to get the characters positioned for the (hopefully) final thrust of the concluding books and a large chunk of that job seems to fall to this volume.  

A thought- assuming the TV series get this far, they may have to roll Feast and Dance together?  Despite occasional intermissions from the regular characters, it feels a bit like GRRM put the central story on the back burner in order to flesh out two new sets of players.  The books can do this- these are all areas referenced at some length in the previous volumes- but there are limits to the referencing the production can do.  It's tough to see the producers all but benching their regular cast for an entire season.

Edited by Jeff_God_Of_Biscuits, 06 February 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Lady Eireanne Stark]

I am enjoying AFFC simply because the other books were so gun-ho and so much was happening. They were non stop and sometimes a little hard to follow and always hard to put down lol.
I like the pace of this book, much slower (I am only half way through so don't know about the final chapters.) and has so many stories being set up and such an impending sense of 'calm before the storm'. I like the new characters and the new POVs too and I am sure enjoying Cersei inravelling before my eyes, I really hope she gets her just deserts!!

[playXray]

Jeff_God_Of_Biscuits, on 06 February 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

A thought- assuming the TV series get this far, they may have to roll Feast and Dance together?  Despite occasional intermissions from the regular characters, it feels a bit like GRRM put the central story on the back burner in order to flesh out two new sets of players.  The books can do this- these are all areas referenced at some length in the previous volumes- but there are limits to the referencing the production can do.  It's tough to see the producers all but benching their regular cast for an entire season.

I've been wondering about this myself. Will they split it by character like in the books (I doubt it), split it chronologically so we see half the story from each character of books 4 & 5 (possible) or just merge them into one series (possible, but would require cutting down the content quite heavily).

Of the three options, I really can't see them making series 4 and 5 concurrent like in the books, so that leaves the last two options. They could easily split the books in half and make the first half of everything from AFfC and ADwD into one series, and the second half of both books into another series, but I don't know how well this would work as a lot of the early stuff in AFfC is a bit superfluous and often dull. There is probably enough waffle in AFfC that they could cut out a huge chunk of it if they wanted to. I've not read ADwD yet so I don't know how much of that could be cut out, but if it's anything like AFfC then they could probably merge the two books into one series. I'd be pretty sad if they did this, but then it might make better television as parts of AFfC do drag quite a bit.

[Crown]

playXray, on 08 February 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

I've been wondering about this myself. Will they split it by character like in the books (I doubt it), split it chronologically so we see half the story from each character of books 4 & 5 (possible) or just merge them into one series (possible, but would require cutting down the content quite heavily).

Of the three options, I really can't see them making series 4 and 5 concurrent like in the books, so that leaves the last two options. They could easily split the books in half and make the first half of everything from AFfC and ADwD into one series, and the second half of both books into another series, but I don't know how well this would work as a lot of the early stuff in AFfC is a bit superfluous and often dull. There is probably enough waffle in AFfC that they could cut out a huge chunk of it if they wanted to. I've not read ADwD yet so I don't know how much of that could be cut out, but if it's anything like AFfC then they could probably merge the two books into one series. I'd be pretty sad if they did this, but then it might make better television as parts of AFfC do drag quite a bit.

My theory was taking Feast and Dance together, and merge them into two seasons ...

[playXray]

How would you split the seasons? Chronologically, or by character like the books?

[Crown]

playXray, on 08 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

How would you split the seasons? Chronologically, or by character like the books?

Chronologically. Just merge the stories from Feast and Dance, and split them in two chronological seasons.

Edited by Crown, 08 February 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Wanderer174]

I LOVED the first books. They were pretty much my bread and butter for as long as I read them; they were brilliantly written and kept me tied to them tor a very long time.  However, I'm pretty much horrified by AFFC. Where did Martin's mad writing skills go? Is it really necessary to describe every detail so explicitly? I understand that the more detail the more realistic Westeros becomes (in fact, I adored how vivid and real his descriptions were in the first books, it's one of the reasons I fell in love with the series), but in my humble opinion describing how good someone's piss was is just ridiculous.

This book has been, so far, utterly boring. I like the political struggles and all the scheming going on, but reading pages after pages after MORE pages of the same thing is extremely tedious. Cersei wants to be greater than her father. We get it! Cersei doesn't like ir want to be bossed around. We get that, too. Cersei hates the roses. Cersei thinks far too highly of herself, to the point where she's borderline mad. All of this could have been stated in a few pages, but Martin insists on dragging the reader through endless repetitions of the same ideas. I found myself skimming through many passages to avoid being bored witless, something that NEVER even crossed my mind in the first books.

Brienne's chapters are seemingly pointless  We already know she isn't going to find Sansa, so what's the point of pulling us through all those pages? I do like what we learn about her life and personality (plus the little bits of Pod's), but the Nimble Dick story, in my opinion, was a waste of ink. Please correct me if I am wrong, but these chapters are basically fillers.

Why do we have to wait so much for Arya and Sam chapters? Martin makes sure that Cersei and Jaime get lots of chapters, along with endless repetitions about Cersei fucking the Kettlebacks - WE GET IT. Jaime's deep concern about this could have been stated easily in one hapter, but Martin chooses to (yet again) make the reader read it over and over and over again.

Sansa's chapters are interesting, at least they're not quite as tedious as Cersei's and Jaime's.  The same goes to Arya and Sam. I would have liked to see more of them but Martin has, so far, left me wanting more.

I'm 2/3 of the way through AFFC, and if it doesn't get better soon I won't even waste my money on ADWD.

[Wanderer174]

I LOVED the first books. They were pretty much my bread and butter for as long as I read them; they were brilliantly written and kept me tied to them tor a very long time.  However, I'm pretty much horrified by AFFC. Where did Martin's mad writing skills go? Is it really necessary to describe every detail so explicitly? I understand that the more detail the more realistic Westeros becomes (in fact, I adored how vivid and real his descriptions were in the first books, it's one of the reasons I fell in love with the series), but in my humble opinion describing how good someone's piss was is just ridiculous.

This book has been, so far, utterly boring. I like the political struggles and all the scheming going on, but reading pages after pages after MORE pages of the same thing is extremely tedious. Cersei wants to be greater than her father. We get it! Cersei doesn't like ir want to be bossed around. We get that, too. Cersei hates the roses. Cersei thinks far too highly of herself, to the point where she's borderline mad. All of this could have been stated in a few pages, but Martin insists on dragging the reader through endless repetitions of the same ideas. I found myself skimming through many passages to avoid being bored witless, something that NEVER even crossed my mind in the first books.

Brienne's chapters are seemingly pointless  We already know she isn't going to find Sansa (and if she miraculously wound up in the Eyrie, Sansa would be unrecognizable to her), so what's the point of pulling us through all those pages? I do like what we learn about her life and personality (plus the little bits of Pod's), but the Nimble Dick story, in my opinion, was a waste of ink. Please correct me if I am wrong, but these chapters are basically fillers.

Why do we have to wait so much for Arya and Sam chapters? Martin makes sure that Cersei and Jaime get lots of chapters, along with endless repetitions about Cersei fucking the Kettlebacks - WE GET IT. Jaime's deep concern about this could have been stated easily in one, perhaps 2, chapters, but Martin chooses to (yet again) make the reader read it over and over and over again.

Sansa's chapters are interesting, at least they're not quite as tedious as Cersei's and Jaime's.  The same goes to Arya and Sam. I would have liked to see more of them but Martin has, so far, left me wanting more.

I'm 2/3 of the way through AFFC, and if it doesn't get better soon I won't even waste my money on ADWD. This has been by far my least favorite book of the series. Sometimes I feel like I should let it gather dust in the back of my bookcase with the other terrible books I own. I don't even want to pick it up anymore.

P.D.: Please excuse my mediocre English, it's not my main language.

[playXray]

Although I don't feel as strongly about AFfC as you clearly do, I was very disappointed with how slow it was to begin with, especially with the new 'one-off' characters. However, the book started to pick up for me around the mid-way point, and by 2/3 through it really started to be interesting. Just stick with it and hopefully you'll find that you start to enjoy it a lot more.

[Plem]

I started reading AFfC right after I finished ASoS and I'm starting to think that was a huge mistake. So many things happened in ASoS that AFfC really feels slow now. I don't know how I would have felt about it if I had waited a bit longer. I keep asking myself when the book is finally going to take off, because right now nothing is really happening and I'm almost halfway through it. The new POVs seem completely pointless, especially since they don't tell us anything new. We knew about the whole Myrcella/Tommen debacle before, so why did we need an Arys Oakheart chapter to tell us again? It's pretty apparent that Martin is just stalling with this book. Why else would we follow around Brienne, even though we know exactly that she is going the wrong way? It's just frustrating. Well, I really hope it picks up soon ...

Edited by Plem, 09 February 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[ScribeMarjie]

I hope this isn't heresy, but as a writer myself (of much more humble skills), it felt as though AFFC was written by someone other than GRR. Perhaps this was an exercise by him in trying other styles, but it felt, well, more geared to a youth audience.
On the other hand, I do like Brienne's travels ~ they remind me of The Canterbury Tales.

[Crown]

ScribeMarjie, on 09 February 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

I hope this isn't heresy, but as a writer myself (of much more humble skills), it felt as though AFFC was written by someone other than GRR. Perhaps this was an exercise by him in trying other styles, but it felt, well, more geared to a youth audience.
On the other hand, I do like Brienne's travels ~ they remind me of The Canterbury Tales.

A youth audience? I think AFFC was more political minded, and less action-packed so more for an elder audience. Anyway, I loved it.

[TheDrawback]

Im struggeling through the first pages now (im still at the first damphair chapter) but im glad its going to get better allong the way.

[Scottish Natural Water]

Page 312 - in my opinion, that's when the story takes off. I've often said that I consider both A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons as the perfect example of a "Calm Before the Storm" attitude in storytelling. Together (seeing as they both pretty much take place at the same time), the pacing is slow, the tone is dark, and they come together as one hell of a long tale - but, I think George R.R. Martin perfectly captured that feeling, that something extremely bad is coming.

When you reach Page 312 in A Feast for Crows, the story that runs throughout of the Ironmen evolves, and makes them a lot more interesting and awesome. Upon re-reading, I really think that (along with A Dance With Dragons) A Feast for Crows has that anticipating feeling of dread - like, a fear of not knowing what is coming next.

[jaygreen]

I really enjoyed AFFC and ADWD, both fleshed out what impact all the goings on had to the whole realm, not just the lords, plus both books set up cliff hangers that really wet your appetite. In hindsight they both need to be reread because there is so much that is missed the first time around.

[Ser Robin Hill]

I've just gotten to the point where Samwell and Aemon are leaving the wall.  I haven't found anything boring.  I just keep wondering where things are headed.  I don't need a battle or beheading every other chapter, to stay interested.  I confess that I tend to enjoy the chapters about characters I know and like, better.  But after a few chapters on new characters, I get into trying to figure them out, so I'm good with that.  When I first read about Damphair, I wanted to consign him to a wood chipper, just as I would for anyone in House Greyjoy, but I suspect he'll turn out to have some redeeming value.

Edited by Robin Hill, 26 February 2012 - 12:37 AM.

[mrnegativity]

Yeah, ASoS was action packed... twists every chapter. FfC is not like that, so I can see where the disquiet comes from.

But... having just finished FfC... I was pretty happy with how it turned out.

Brienne chapters were the most random - kind of like Arya in SoS, she just wanders aimlessly around the riverlands getting caught up in other people's shit. I see a lot of this as world building... we get background on a few major players (Randyll Tarly, Jaime, Brienne herself, Cat + crew), and tie up a whole heap of loose ends (what happened to the Hound, what happened to Pod, what happened to the Bloody Mummers)... not to mention get a whole heap of 'Westeros flavour' - geographic information, the wandering septon, the river people... my favourite, the discourse on how a peasant ends up a 'broken man' (which suddenly gives a human face to the thousands of unnamed fighters who have died already at this stage in the book). Could the story go on without all this information? Sure, but part of what makes SoIaF great is that it has a depth other stories don't have... and Brienne's chapters are pretty valuable seen in that light. YMMV.

Arya chapters were badass. Sam's were good. Both had enough twists to keep me wanting to know more. Loved the Dorne chapters... the final twist in those ones was by far the best in the book. The Ironborn... again, I liked the 'Westeros flavour'... and all these new players on the scene, good times. None of them are particularly likeable of course, and Aeron is pretty annoying... good value though.

Cersei's implosion was awesome, Jaime as always great. I'm not sure how the events in the book could have been told differently. Definitely more 'muted' than the others in terms of twists - but bear in mind that after three books with a billion HOLY **** moments, it's going to take a lot to get the same effect again.

Bring on DwD.

[Crown]

mrnegativity, on 17 February 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

Yeah, ASoS was action packed... twists every chapter. FfC is not like that, so I can see where the disquiet comes from.

But... having just finished FfC... I was pretty happy with how it turned out.

Brienne chapters were the most random - kind of like Arya in SoS, she just wanders aimlessly around the riverlands getting caught up in other people's shit. I see a lot of this as world building... we get background on a few major players (Randyll Tarly, Jaime, Brienne herself, Cat + crew), and tie up a whole heap of loose ends (what happened to the Hound, what happened to Pod, what happened to the Bloody Mummers)... not to mention get a whole heap of 'Westeros flavour' - geographic information, the wandering septon, the river people... my favourite, the discourse on how a peasant ends up a 'broken man' (which suddenly gives a human face to the thousands of unnamed fighters who have died already at this stage in the book). Could the story go on without all this information? Sure, but part of what makes SoIaF great is that it has a depth other stories don't have... and Brienne's chapters are pretty valuable seen in that light. YMMV.

Arya chapters were badass. Sam's were good. Both had enough twists to keep me wanting to know more. Loved the Dorne chapters... the final twist in those ones was by far the best in the book. The Ironborn... again, I liked the 'Westeros flavour'... and all these new players on the scene, good times. None of them are particularly likeable of course, and Aeron is pretty annoying... good value though.

Cersei's implosion was awesome, Jaime as always great. I'm not sure how the events in the book could have been told differently. Definitely more 'muted' than the others in terms of twists - but bear in mind that after three books with a billion HOLY **** moments, it's going to take a lot to get the same effect again.

Bring on DwD.

Hallefuckingluljah! Finally someone on these forums that loves AFFC as much as I do, exactly because of the things you mentioned.