TerraPrime Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 There's way better stuff for a young reader to be consuming.Sparkly vampires! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sparkly vampires!Don't even joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Bass Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The Elven Nations and Elven Exiles Trilogies were both disappointments. In both cases, I liked the first books (they were nice to read, if not great), but the follow-up books ruined the trilogy for me. Particularly Elven Nations, which is supposedly about the rise of Qualinost (the other Elvish realm besides Silvanost), but which completely skips over the nation-building process after Book Two to an established nation and kingdom in Book Three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebenstone Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They're okay for young readers getting into fantasy for the first time. The first three - the Chronicles trilogy - don't really stack up to adult reading. There's some nice touches, such as the GRRM-esque totally unexpected killing of a major character who isn't the traditional mentor wizard role or the fact that the adventuring band have been together for years and are already experienced at combat and don't really need to 'change and grow' in the traditional manner, but nothing too revelatory. The prose is severely malnourished and the characterisation spotty in places, and in Tas we have a character who combines the worst of Bombadil and Jar-Jar into one role, which is seriously fecking annoying. Some characters - Kitiara and Raistlin most notably - are more interesting and better-developed, but overall it's a kids' series based on some D&D modules.The Legends trilogy, on the other hand, is more original, more interesting, far better-written and more intelligently-characterised (even Tas becomes quasi-bearable for paragraphss at a time, which is remarkable), though we are only talking relatively here. It's an interesting step up for younger readers and an acceptably decent YA fantasy trilogy, but again not much beyond that.Most of the other books by other authors are pretty poor, including the later Weis and Hickman novels, though I remember Jeff Grubb's 'villain POV' book about Fewmaster Toede being amusing and reasonably entertaining.The biggest problem with Dragonlance is that the world and setting are geared too much around the War of the Lance and its aftermath (particularly Raistlin's story arc). Other stories set in the world outside of those events and that time period feel redundant. The later degeneration into constant world-shaking events and the gods being around and then vanishing and then returning got completely tedious.The first three Dragonlance books sold 4 million copies in their first six or seven years on sale (my 1991-copyrighted paperbacks have, "Four million copies of the Dragonlance Chronicles sold!" on the cover), which is extremely impressive. But a drop in the ocean compared to what LotR was on by that time (an absolute minimum of 30 times that). Along with Eddings, Brooks and, a couple of years later, Salvatore, they introduced a lot of kids to fantasy, but I don't think those kids would have suffered without them. There was plenty of other stuff in the modern fantasy genre around by that time.One of the things I've read about the books is that they are published under the idea that the audience replicates itself every five years or so, keeping the stories fresh to the public. Can't argue with that.Still, important books for me nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm not even sure how to respond to this thread. I like DL, but I understand why people here don't, nor would I actually hold them up as any example of...erh...superior writing skills. (I actually do think Death Gate is really good. Darksword I thought was shit even when I was 12). As someone who at one point made it a goal to read every DL novel, and almost has, I can tell you that 99 percent of them are shit. There is a few OK ones in there were the authors were actually allowed to do their own thing that weren't too bad. Douglas Niles had one a few years back that actually had a main character who was kind of an asshole, and a non happy ending. but yeah, when I reccomend DL I'm kidding. I mean I like it, and maybe it gets shit on too much, but cmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Let's say someone wanted something in the same vein - close knit friends/lovers/siblings who get swept up in world changing events. Setting cleaves close to classic fantasy. Some are redeemed, and some fall to the darkness.I think, more than anything, it was the friendships and how they evolved or dissolved that makes people remember them fondly.That said, I went back and checked and yeah, I gotta put them lower than the easy reading but better prose (and likely plotting) of Sanderson, Prince of Thorns, Night Circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickg Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I liked The Legend of Huma when I was younger. I can only thing of a couple more outside of the Chronicles and Legends trilogies that I would actually admit to reading now. I'm in the same camp as Grack though, I've read most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Man, on a Weis note, have you ever read any of HEr solo stuff? That woman has ISSUES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 What kind of issues?Wasn't there a whole debacle where they basically added this guy's short story that was basically a rip off of the Ainulindalë? I saw it in the hardcover for I think Vanquised Moon but not in the paper backs.It was, admittedly, a mess where they not only had the Chaos-god retcon but made the High God a Lawful Good being whose only faithful son was Paladine...They just got to the point where Krynn's primary theme (Good Vs. Evil Vs. Balance) was trampled. I really wish they could have another go and pretend everything past the Test of the Twins was erased.ETA: Vanquished Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 What kind of issues?Wasn't there a whole debacle where they basically added this guy's short story that was basically a rip off of the Ainulindalë? I saw it in the hardcover for I think Vanquised Moon but not in the paper backs.It was, admittedly, a mess where they not only had the Chaos-god retcon but made the High God a Lawful Good being whose only faithful son was Paladine...They just got to the point where Krynn's primary theme (Good Vs. Evil Vs. Balance) was trampled. I really wish they could have another go and pretend everything past the Test of the Twins was erased.ETA: Vanquished MoonOh not her solo DL work, I mean her other stuff. There was one set in space that was really...not what you'd expect from someone who wrote DL. Aliens eating peopel and storing there still conscious half eaten bodies in meat lockers and some weird Paradise lost parallels. Plus she had some dragon books where one of the main characters is raped by a giant Dragon man. Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrellius Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I got into Dragonlance through playing the AD&D 2nd edition setting. Chronicles was meh, but I really enjoyed Legends. I was about 15 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The first three Dragonlance books sold 4 million copies in their first six or seven years on sale (my 1991-copyrighted paperbacks have, "Four million copies of the Dragonlance Chronicles sold!" on the cover), which is extremely impressive. But a drop in the ocean compared to what LotR was on by that time (an absolute minimum of 30 times that). Along with Eddings, Brooks and, a couple of years later, Salvatore, they introduced a lot of kids to fantasy, but I don't think those kids would have suffered without them. There was plenty of other stuff in the modern fantasy genre around by that time.Wert, it's hard to argue with you on particulars and what not, but I don't think Eddings, Brooks and certainly not Salvatore accomplish what they did if Dragonlance hadn't paved the way. Other than Tolkien, there was nothing else remotely like it in the early 80s.And as you say, LOTRs had decades to accumalate numbers. Mind you, I didn't by a copy or FOTR until about 10 years after I'd read all of Chronicles and Legends a half dozen times. Still haven't been able to finish it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Brooks and Eddings came before Dragonlance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I actually think Brooks predates DL. Eddings might too. Salvatore doesn't...I don't think. Damn now I have to go look.What Shryke said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Plus she had some dragon books where one of the main characters is raped by a giant Dragon man. Fun times.I think you may be thinking of McCaffrey on this one. I remember branching out past Pern a few times, and quickly realizing Pern was all I was reading of hers. Either that or its a common theme in books and I didn't know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I liked Dragonlance fine when I was younger. It doesn't really stand up well to the test of time, but for a youngster getting into the genre, they're good stuff. And I'd also rank Legends way above Chronicles. Legends sometimes gets a nostalgia-reread, Chronicles not so much.I also read Dragons of Summer Flare (? - the one set way after Legends). I thought the premiss of honourable knights devoted to evil was silly, but it was somewhat nice to read about favourite characters later on. I never touched the other woks set in the Dragonlance world though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 thought the premiss of honourable knights devoted to evil was sillyCurious why this would be silly, as this is pretty much a large swath of people throughout history though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yeah you could use that to desribe half the characters from over half of the books really popular here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Wert, it's hard to argue with you on particulars and what not, but I don't think Eddings, Brooks and certainly not Salvatore accomplish what they did if Dragonlance hadn't paved the way. Other than Tolkien, there was nothing else remotely like it in the early 80s. As others have pointed out, Dragonlance came pretty late in the development of the early-modern epic fantasy. Dragons of Autumn Twilight came out in 1984, so was preceded by Brooks' Sword of Shannara (1977), Donaldson's Lord Foul's Bane (1977, but definitely not for kids), Feist's Magician (1982) and Eddings' Pawn of Prophecy (1982), among numerous others.Salvatore came later, with The Crystal Shard being published in 1988, and certainly the idea of a Forgotten Realms novel line was inspired by the success of the Dragonlance line, so that's a fair comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I remember thinking that the Legend of Huma was one of the best books in the Dragonlance pantheon. I remember them fondly, and despite how much some actively hate them, i don't think they are that bad for young readers. I've just moved on myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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