The Official Tyrion Lannister appreciation thread

[Woman of War]

@ Woman of War --> I actually find I like both Tyrion and Sansa. Though I do not want them together!! No more than I want Sansa and Sandor together!! Yuck!!

Welcome to the club of freaks. I for example like both Tyrion and Cersei. Apart form that I do not dislike Sansa. But IF there ever should be a remotely happy ending for Tyrion I would like him to be with an independent, clever and streetwise woman.

[1234567]

BTW, I don't remember Shagga ever being described as specifically raping somebody. I wouldn't put it past him. He's funny, and simple, and a refreshing counterpoint to Tyrions intrigues. Shagga likes axes.

There are a few hints in ACOK that the Wildlings are not behaving appropriately in KL and (Shagga is mentioned as wanting every whore in this city of whores), but in ASOS when Arya is in the little village that is arming itself for Winter, the people in the town talk about the Hill Clans having come back with proper steel and that they have massacred a nearby village and took the women. But you are right, it didn't say Shagga by name.

Also Tyrion's love life is tragic. However Tysha fell for him and with his personality and confidence (because he is incredibly self-confident) he could indeed have easily found a merchants widow, or a middling class sort of girl to be his mistress, and have a relationship based on love. However his father was the one who destroyed that possibility for him with the Tysha incident and instead of developing normal relationship skills Tyrion kept trying to recreated a paid for fantasy girlfriend, and actually never bothered to learn much about women. All he ever wanted was Tysha 2.0. Very, very sad.

The implication though is that the Hill Clans are terrorizing local villages and the Vale smallfolk.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Welcome to the club of freaks. I for example like both Tyrion and Cersei. Apart form that I do not dislike Sansa. But IF there ever should be a remotely happy ending for him I would like him to be with an independent, clever and streetwise woman.

Like, say, Chataya or Alayaya? Let's face it. No woman other than a whore can really stomach him. Although Septa Lemore seems to find him charming, oddly....

[Woman of War]

Like, say, Chataya or Alayaya? Let's face it. No woman other than a whore can really stomach him. Although Septa Lemore seems to find him charming, oddly....

I agree. A successful (former) prostitute and strong woman who maybe has seen the world would be a good choice. In fact I believe that Tyrion needs a challenge and someone who likes to share a good joke. An innocent virgin would simply not be interesting for him after some time anymore, about what should he talk with a pampered lady?

Rapsie:

Also Tyrion's love life is tragic. However Tysha fell for him and with his personality and confidence (because he is incredibly self-confident) he could indeed have easily found a merchants widow, or a middling class sort of girl to be his mistress, and have a relationship based on love. However his father was the one who destroyed that possibility for him with the Tysha incident and instead of developing normal relationship skills Tyrion kept trying to recreated a paid for fantasy girlfriend, and actually never bothered to learn much about women. All he ever wanted was Tysha 2.0. Very, very sad.

Yes, Tyrion compulsively tries to repeat the Tysha love as ideal, that lets me think that he himself is unable to believe in a good ending for any relationship, thus making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. He definitely would need a woman that unmistakably tells him where a relationship goes

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Maybe he should move to Sothoryos, where the women there view the sex-trade as a prestigious trade, and one to be respected. He would be like a kid in a candy store.

[Evamitchelle]

I would think it would be plain I wasn't referring to the murder in a jealous rage part.

Shae was a camp follower. Given the treatment of army camp whores in westeros, yes, he was kind, and concerned for her safety, and even in love with her.

Tyrions whoring is always rather sad, pre ADWD, because it seems to me he's looking for affection, not flesh. Where else is he to get it? How many highborn or baseborn ladies are going to fall for a deformed dwarf?

No, Tyrion isn't a saint. He's conniving and Machiavellian and murderous, in the end. So is Cersei, but one never sees any acts of kindness from her.

BTW, I don't remember Shagga ever being described as specifically raping somebody. I wouldn't put it past him. He's funny, and simple, and a refreshing counterpoint to Tyrions intrigues. Shagga likes axes.

As far as there being countless Tyrion threads, I see where you're coming from, and I do use the search function, and lurked for a while. I don't think there's much that hasn't been discussed here from what I've read. If you haven't discussed it it's new to you :)

Even before he murdered her Tyrion wasn't particularly good to Shae. She was a prostitute he paid for her services but he fell in love with her and deluded himself into thinking she felt the same. If he was so concerned about her safety he wouldn't have brought her to KG in the first place. Making her Lollys' maid might have been the smart thing to do to keep her alive, but She herself absolutely did not want to become a scullion or a maid and told him so repeatedly and he ignored her demands while still making use of her services. Convincing her to leave the money she'd earned (in her own way) included slapping her IIRC. Also, the "other people do worse all the time" argument doesn't really hold for me. The fact that Ramsay tortures his wives in a horrible fashion doesn't make Robert hitting Cersei "only" twice any better. Similarly, other people treating whores like shit doesn't mean Tyrion's slightly nicer approach is good in and of itself.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Even before he murdered her Tyrion wasn't particularly good to Shae. She was a prostitute he paid for her services but he fell in love with her and deluded himself into thinking she felt the same. If he was so concerned about her safety he wouldn't have brought her to KG in the first place. Making her Lollys' maid might have been the smart thing to do to keep her alive, but She herself absolutely did not want to become a scullion or a maid and told him so repeatedly and he ignored her demands while still making use of her services. Convincing her to leave the money she'd earned (in her own way) included slapping her IIRC. Also, the "other people do worse all the time" argument doesn't really hold for me. The fact that Ramsay tortures his wives in a horrible fashion doesn't make Robert hitting Cersei "only" twice any better. Similarly, other people treating whores like shit doesn't mean Tyrion's slightly nicer approach is good in and of itself.

This isn't completely fair. If you read his POV's again, you'll see that he was not the only one responsible for deluding himself into believing that she loved him. She was very, very convincing. Hell, I actually believed it for a while - that she wasn't just another whore. I think that was what GRRM was getting at. That he wanted us to think that she was somehow differetn, somehow more pure, than all the other, normal, whores. But in the end, she sold him out to his father and sister for money.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying, at all, that makes it ok for him to kill her. It doesn't. He still mirdered her. Nut he wasn't the only one responsible for deluding himself into thinking that she genuinely loved him. She wa also responsible. She was a whore, it was her job to make him believe that, and she was very good at her job. And GRRM made sure we knew it. Also, if you read it again, you'll see that Shae wanted very, very much to come with Tyrion to King's Landing. Tyrion told her hat his father told him not to bring her. Granted, she argued against being a scullion and a maid, but she did want to go to KL with him, and asked him to take her.

[Toro]

Similarly, other people treating whores like shit doesn't mean Tyrion's slightly nicer approach is good in and of itself.

No, it doesn't. It's good considering the situation and how he could act without feeling the least bit abnormal in his actions towards a camp follower.

Very little in Westeros seems good in and of itself. Brienne comes to mind. A little bit of Ned. Dany's attempts, at least. Like I said, its subjective.

Consider two men walk by a woman waiting for her bus. Her purse is open and a little bit of money is sticking out. She has two kids with her, its cold, they all look

tired and hungry. One of the men is a businessman, the other a thief and a heroin addict. For the businessman to leave the wallet is one thing. He's never stolen somebodies money, so the kindness of not taking the hungry families wallet is somewhat lost. He didn't really do a kind thing. For the thief to leave it, that's something else. It doesn't make him a good person, he's still a thief and a junkie and so on, but it was an act of kindness.

[Evamitchelle]

This isn't completely fair. If you read his POV's again, you'll see that he was not the only one responsible for deluding himself into believing that she loved him. She was very, very convincing. Hell, I actually believed it for a while - that she wasn't just another whore. I think that was what GRRM was getting at. That he wanted us to think that she was somehow differetn, somehow more pure, than all the other, normal, whores. But in the end, she sold him out to his father and sister for money.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying, at all, that makes it ok for him to kill her. It doesn't. He still mirdered her. Nut he wasn't the only one responsible for deluding himself into thinking that she genuinely loved him. She wa also responsible. She was a whore, it was her job to make him believe that, and she was very good at her job. And GRRM made sure we knew it. Also, if you read it again, you'll see that Shae wanted very, very much to come with Tyrion to King's Landing. Tyrion told her hat his father told him not to bring her. Granted, she argued against being a scullion and a maid, but she did want to go to KL with him, and asked him to take her.

Of course she'd want to go to KG, Tyrion is a Lannister and has the riches to show for it. When Bronn brought her to Tyrion she was the bedwarmer of nameless knight #1234, being employed by the active Hand is quite an improvement in comparison. She was a very convincing actress, but she did remind him quite often that she was a whore and no a lady (she almost mentions it every time we see her in a chapter actually). I'm not saying falling in love with her makes Tyrion unkind in any way, quite the contrary, but I don't see any of his actions towards her as very "kind". He gave her gold and jewels and silks because that was the payment she required, but he made her as a scullion and a maid (his wife's maid no less - classy) after that, to keep her close, and then tried to marry her off to facilitate their affair. She's just his property to do with as he pleases.

No, it doesn't. It's good considering the situation and how he could act without feeling the least bit abnormal in his actions towards a camp follower.

Very little in Westeros seems good in and of itself. Brienne comes to mind. A little bit of Ned. Dany's attempts, at least. Like I said, its subjective.

Consider two men walk by a woman waiting for her bus. Her purse is open and a little bit of money is sticking out. She has two kids with her, its cold, they all look

tired and hungry. One of the men is a businessman, the other a thief and a heroin addict. For the businessman to leave the wallet is one thing. He's never stolen somebodies money, so the kindness of not taking the hungry families wallet is somewhat lost. He didn't really do a kind thing. For the thief to leave it, that's something else. It doesn't make him a good person, he's still a thief and a junkie and so on, but it was an act of kindness.

I have to disagree with your example. I don't see how not stealing from someone when you could have is kind. It's like saying not murdering someone when you could have gotten away with it is kind. It's just common decency.

[voodooqueen126]

Welcome to the club of freaks. I for example like both Tyrion and Cersei. Apart form that I do not dislike Sansa. But IF there ever should be a remotely happy ending for Tyrion I would like him to be with an independent, clever and streetwise woman.

But if Tyrion was with a clever independent woman, she would talk back and Tyrion would slap her.

All Tyrion wants is a woman who helps him between the sheets and laughs at his jokes.

[Tini]

But if Tyrion was with a clever independent woman, she would talk back and Tyrion would slap her.

All Tyrion wants is a woman who helps him between the sheets and laughs at his jokes.

So what? I would hope that this woman leaves him if he doesn't repent and changes his act. He might actually learn from the experience and not beat the next clever independent woman. I think he'd be better off with such a woman as with a woman who suffers his every whim.

[No Lama]

Tyrion is an awesome character, who had every single thing bad, go worse.

You try and be a midget in the middle ages, with the perfect brother and a father that detests you, it fucks you up.

I love the fact that is is so fucking hilarious, my favorite character.

[No Lama]

But if Tyrion was with a clever independent woman, she would talk back and Tyrion would slap her.

All Tyrion wants is a woman who helps him between the sheets and laughs at his jokes.

I don`t think Tyrion would slap an independent clever woman, in fact i think he`s looking for one that will accept him and love him.

[headtrip_honey]

I don`t think Tyrion would slap an independent clever woman, in fact i think he`s looking for one that will accept him and love him.

Well, he slapped Shae the first time she talked back to him, and he was "in love" with her, or so posters claim.

[Alexia]

He isn't looking for a clever independent woman and he doesn't want a clever independent woman. He is looking for validation, both sexual and otherwise, and a pretty china doll to project all his fantasies on.

[Woman of War]

So what? I would hope that this woman leaves him if he doesn't repent and changes his act. He might actually learn from the experience and not beat the next clever independent woman. I think he'd be better off with such a woman as with a woman who suffers his every whim.

and a woman who lets herself get slapped more than once by the same guy is either not independent or not clever. No, Tyrion needs someone he'd not dare to slap, for fear of losing the woman or his head. He is interesting enough, if he digs deep to find his charms........ and love is not always a reason to lose ones wits but can be a motivation to find some reason. My guy e.g. stopped smoking when I bribed him to be a father or to smoke - chose!

[No Lama]

Well, he slapped Shae the first time she talked back to him, and he was "in love" with her, or so posters claim.

It wasn`t love, he hated her for being a whore and he hated himself because only whores could "love" him.

The slap was to remind himself that this woman was not his "love" but rather a prostitute that didn`t deserve to judge him and his faults.

In my opinion, at least.

[only me]

When I read about characters being grey, greyer and dark-grey, I imagine long scale and all the characters are standing in front of it side by side. For example, Eddard is white and Ramsay Bolton is black and everyone else in between.

About Tyrion, in ADWD he is mourning. Although he killed Shae and his father (does he regret it? did they deserve it?), they were still a big and important part of his life.

[1234567]

and a woman who lets herself get slapped more than once by the same guy is either not independent or not clever.

Or living in the world of Westeros where women have no ability to escape violent husbands.....even if their father owns Casterly Rock.

[No Lama]

Or living in the world of Westeros where women have no ability to escape violent husbands.....even if their father owns Casterly Rock.

That`s true in our world as well. Knowing Tywin, he`d tell her to take it like a good wife.