34 replies to this topic

[DornishHighlander]

Excuse me if this has been asked and answered before. Is there a particular reason for GRRM making the Blackwoods stick to the Old Ways. Is it just so Brynden Rivers has a connection to the Old Gods or Robb has a Riverlord aligned to his beliefs, which I doubt as beyond helping recapture Riverrun we don't see him again till AFFC/DWD, or is there a reason/connection that has been overlooked.

I feel GRRM is way too deliberate to mention a house south of the Neck sticking to the Old Ways for no good reason

[Lord Barristan]

Its almost certainly for the whole Bloodraven storyline... When I first read A Game of Thrones, I just overlooked it until I found out about Bloodraven

Notice the Sam chapter in STORM, the weirwood full of ravens is the Blackwood sigil, and it is clearly Bloodraven who sent Coldhands and the ravens to help Sam after he prayed to the old gods

[Frey Pie]

Bloodraven storyline aswel id say. Cool house though.

[The hairy bear]

I'd say is a matter of adding some depth to the setting and making it more realistic. It also helps to antagonize them to the Brackens.

[Askatla]

I'm of the same mind; it allows for conflict, the Bloodraven storyline, as well as the age of the family/house and that huge old weirwood. If it becomes a way to set up "us versus them" against the Brackens and further the feud... whyever not run with it, and have them hew to the old family faith?

[Renly'sGhost]

Agree. Certainly helps with running the feud an inch deeper. Though, Tytos Blackwood compared to Jonos Bracken - Blackwoods have loyalty and honor on their side, while Lord Jonos is occupied quite differently...

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Partly for the Bloodraven story line. But Blackwood isn't the only house to keep the Old Gods. Mallister and Royce are some other examples, if I remember correctly.

[tze]

Bright Blue Eyes, on 14 December 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

But Blackwood isn't the only house to keep the Old Gods. Mallister and Royce are some other examples, if I remember correctly.

I'm pretty sure that House Mallister and House Royce both keep the Seven.

[GreenHand]

Not sure about the Mallisters but the Mallister rule Seaguard which is very far North in the Riverlands and, barring the Twins, the closest seat to the Neck where the North-sworn Crannogmen lurk. Perhaps any person who named the Blackwoods as "The only House keeping the Old Gods in the South" considered Mallister's Seaguard as geographically part of the 'The Neck' even though it is politically aligned to the Riverlands and sworn to Riverrun before the War of Five Kings.

The Royces of Runestone certainly do keep a lot of tokens of the culture of the First Men. They have ancient bronze armour inscribed with "protective" First Men runes. There are emblazoned runes on their Arms. But I'm not sure we're ever told that they actually follow the Old Gods. They certainly seem to believe in the power of the protective runes on their armour, if that can be taken as evidence. Maybe there is at least a remnant of the old religion and ways. I find the Royces very interesting indeed.

So maybe there is one House in the Riverlands (Blackwood) and one in the Vale (Royce).

[gramblor]

GreenHand, on 14 December 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

Not sure about the Mallisters but the Mallister rule Seaguard which is very far North in the Riverlands and, barring the Twins, the closest seat to the Neck where the North-sworn Crannogmen lurk. Perhaps any person who named the Blackwoods as "The only House keeping the Old Gods in the South" considered Mallister's Seaguard as geographically part of the 'The Neck' even though it is politically aligned to the Riverlands and sworn to Riverrun before the War of Five Kings.

The Royces of Runestone certainly do keep a lot of tokens of the culture of the First Men. They have ancient bronze armour inscribed with "protective" First Men runes. There are emblazoned runes on their Arms. But I'm not sure we're ever told that they actually follow the Old Gods. They certainly seem to believe in the power of the protective runes on their armour, if that can be taken as evidence. Maybe there is at least a remnant of the old religion and ways. I find the Royces very interesting indeed.

So maybe there is one House in the Riverlands (Blackwood) and one in the Vale (Royce).

I know its off-topic, but the runes in the armour was my reason for believing Coldhands to be Waymar Royce

[voodooqueen126]

All of the Royces are knights.
Also does anybody know what year
Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood came to Riverrun when Lysa Tully was young to put their feud before Lord Hoster Tully's judgment.

Edited by voodooqueen126, 08 February 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[BreastplateWithNipples]

Where does one find this "Bloodraven" storyline? Is that in the Dunk/Egg stories?

[Gurkhal]

Yeah that is it and there's a little hint of it in the main story line as well.

Edited by Gurkhal, 08 February 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[voodooqueen126]

Gurkhal, on 08 February 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Yeah that is it and there's a little hint of it in the main story line as well.

you met Bloodraven in ADWD

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Lord Barristan, on 14 December 2011 - 08:38 AM, said:

Its almost certainly for the whole Bloodraven storyline... When I first read A Game of Thrones, I just overlooked it until I found out about Bloodraven

Notice the Sam chapter in STORM, the weirwood full of ravens is the Blackwood sigil, and it is clearly Bloodraven who sent Coldhands and the ravens to help Sam after he prayed to the old gods

Totally agree. I didn’t read the D&E stories till after the novels. But they brought the Bloodraven’s a Blackwood to the front of my mind. And then rereading everything after finishing ADWD, the tree full of crows at Whitetree that Sam sees in ASOS and the description of the weirwood at Raventree Hall and its history in ADWD instantly joined up in my mind.

[Apple Martini]

I think it's for several reasons, most notably the Bloodraven storyline. It might also end up being important that at least one huge weirwood in the south survived.

Spoiler

And apparently a bunch of them are shown in caves in the WOW Arianne chapter; this might be a clue that enough exist down south so that someone wanting to look might see, uh, stuff through them.

I think it also helps us have a better understanding how the skinchanging/warging "selection process" works. Namely that it's the old god worship and/or First Men blood that produces wargs, not necessarily geographic location.

Edited by Apple Martini, 08 February 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[Lykos]

Yes there is an old weirwood - tree in Raventree Hall, presumedly dead.

It´s mentioned in AFfC, when Jaime negotiates withTytos Blackwood the surrender of House Blackwood.

The moment I became convinced that Bran will warg the world.

[voodooqueen126]

Apple Martini, on 08 February 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

I think it's for several reasons, most notably the Bloodraven storyline. It might also end up being important that at least one huge weirwood in the south survived.

Spoiler

And apparently a bunch of them are shown in caves in the WOW Arianne chapter; this might be a clue that enough exist down south so that someone wanting to look might see, uh, stuff through them.

I think it also helps us have a better understanding how the skinchanging/warging "selection process" works. Namely that it's the old god worship and/or First Men blood that produces wargs, not necessarily geographic location.

The Red Keep has a weirwood.
Cersei and Eddard had their conversation under a weirwood, and Ser Dontos and Sansa met under that same Weirwood.

[ForeverBallin]

BreastplateWithNipples, on 08 February 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Where does one find this "Bloodraven" storyline? Is that in the Dunk/Egg stories?

There is some in the Dunk & Egg stories. More will definitely be added as more stories are published
Off-topic- speaking of Dunk & Egg, this whole war could have been averted had Ser Duncan not been a fool.
(The Royces keep the Seven)

[Elaena Targaryen]

voodooqueen126, on 08 February 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

The Red Keep has a weirwood.
Cersei and Eddard had their conversation under a weirwood, and Ser Dontos and Sansa met under that same Weirwood.

The godswood has an oak for the *heart tree* so no actual weirwood
http://awoiaf.wester...d_Keep#Godswood