106 replies to this topic

[sheppard]

its been mentioned quite a few times that the raven mormont has is unusually intelligent, and we know that bloodraven controlls a lot of ravens beyond the wall

could mormonts raven also be one bloodraven controlls? a spy right at the heart of the nights watch which sees and hears everything the lord commander does and everything that goes on at the wall!

[Arkash]

Probably, interesting thought... yet I think we, the fans, think to high of the three eyed-crow... we give him too much power.

Edited by Arkash, 20 December 2011 - 11:58 AM.

[FanTasy]

Possibly. I suggested something like this in another thread, but it was not thoroughly discussed. So i'm glad you opened this thread

[Revan Baratheon]

I agree this theory is far more plausible than R+L=J. I belive u might have cracked a mystery.Why else would GRRM give that damn bird so much screen-time?

[sheppard]

he obviously has a great deal of power though, he has lived a longer life than he should have, he managed to penetrate bran and jojens dreams and bring them to him past the wall and take controll of a weight in the shape of coldhands, whether or not he just controlls him or he can create weights who knows! i for one also believe coldhands to be stonesnake, as we never heard anything more from him after he seperated from jon and the halfhand

[Val the Wildling Princess]

I never thought about it until the crow said: Corn. King. Snow. Jon Snow. Dude, that was weird he never called Jon by his whole name before and I thought it could be Bran but you could be definitely right.

[sheppard]

Revan Baratheon, on 20 December 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

I agree this theory is far more plausible than R+L=J. I belive u might have cracked a mystery.Why else would GRRM give that damn bird so much screen-time?

exactly! the bird comes up far to often! everywhere something of any importance happens the bird is around!

[sheppard]

which also raises the question that if bloodraven has been looking through the birds eyes he would have known mormont was planning on using the fist of the first men, maybe he had the dragon glass planted there for jon to find!

[EdricBaratheon]

I never thought about Mormont's crow's purpose untill now..... this thread has just sparked up a good topic for discussion, and one for me to certainly read into!

[Arkash]

Damn, the dragonglass knives!!!!

Completely forgot !!!

Hope we wont have a Lost effect here: dozens of unresolved mysteries!

[Serie]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 20 December 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

I never thought about it until the crow said: Corn. King. Snow. Jon Snow. Dude, that was weird he never called Jon by his whole name before and I thought it could be Bran but you could be definitely right.

that was the case for me as well! that was a weird thing for a crow to say....

[EdricBaratheon]

Arkash, on 20 December 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Damn, the dragonglass knives!!!!

Completely forgot !!!

Hope we wont have a Lost effect here: dozens of unresolved mysteries!

The possibilities here are just endless right now!

[sheppard]

i get the feeling iv stumbled onto something quite big! was the raven not with sam when he was attacked by all the weights and coldhands rescued him too? that could be further evidence!

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Either that or Mormont is a skinchanger too. Maybe both.

[Glyn Tarvoke]

I thought that something, after ADWD BR, was warging Mormont's crow. There's a scene after Jon cuts his deal with the Braavosi banker where Jon comes back to his room to find the crow perched on his chair above the contract. I was pretty sure this implied that the crow was reading the contract. I think GRMM is careful not to make everything too obvious,

In the last Bran chapter its pointed out that various people can warg the same animal. So it seems to me that both BR and Bran (after he's trained up a bit) could both warg the crow. Sometimes it might be BR, sometimes Bran. And sometimes it would just be a crow.

I'd also guess that there are other times when BR or the old gods take a hand in things. Like when Arya and the Hound end up finding the horse Craven for Arya to ride. Lucky no? Or did someone direct the horse there? I think BR-- and soon Bran-- can manage little things like that.

[mike_s_6]

I am one of those who think that it's definitely Bloodraven. Maybe Bran, but remember, Bloodraven has...

A thousand eyes... and one.

I think the thousand are not just people. They are also animals, because just notice how careful the characters in Dunk and Egg are in talking about him. He's perceived to be omniscient enough to spark my theory that he knows so much even those said in places where there are no people, not the way Varys does, but through warging.

Also remember when Jon was elected LC? The action of the raven is pretty much magical, I can't think of a way for that to have happened if not that the raven was warged into by someone who favors him.

Edited by mike_s_6, 20 December 2011 - 12:37 PM.

[FanTasy]

There are probably more talking ravens. It is in the text that Sam teaches them to say words. But Lord Mormonts raven (if it is the same bird) seems to be something special. He not only asks for corn, he asks for blood. If given corn by a hand that is not protected by a glove he breaks the skin.
He mostly repeats words from a sentence just spoken.
On some rare events, for instance at Castle Black and at the Fist, he says words on his own account, not picked up from sentences just spoken.

The raven could be used by Bloodraven, or it could be a raven that has been used by skinchangers. Some aspect of a skinchanger always remains in the skin that was taken.
In another thread I suggested that we hear not the raven talk, but the voice of the remainder of the skinchanger that used of uses the raven.

And of course it's in the text that in the older days it wasn't necessary to tie a message to a raven to deliver your message. You could tell the bird the message and it would deliver it verbally at the adress required.

Edited by FanTasy, 20 December 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[EdricBaratheon]

Bright Blue Eyes, on 20 December 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

Either that or Mormont is a skinchanger too. Maybe both.

Oh god, don't throw that one into the fire! That could spark up a huge row on whether Mormont was a warg/skin changer or not!

[Great Dayne]

It could be Lord Mormont. In a ADWD one of the Mormont girls tells Asha that the Mormonts are skinchangers. The Blood Raven theory is interesting and probably more plausible, he was the Comander of the NW if I remember correctly.

[CJS 2207]

Let us assume that BR has been warging into Mormont's crow. We know from Bran's chapters in aDwD that BR has been training him, and furthermore as someone posted here already, that multiple people can warg into the same creature. I agree with the other posters here who found it peculiar that Mormont's raven called Jon by his full name, and that the bird was perched above the Braavosi contract as if perusing it is another tell-tale signal to the reader that there is more to this bird than meets the eye.

My question is: could it be possible that BR and Bran were both warging into Mormont's crow when the creature uttered Jon's full name? Bran called out to his lord father from the weirwood in Winterfell's godswood, and Theon heard his name whispered there as well, which again could have been Bran. I think for it to be a possibility, however, Mormont's raven would have had to utter "Jon Snow" after Bran's POV chapter, where BR had him trained up, so to speak. I would have to go back and re-read the timeline of events to be sure, unless someone here knows (always a good chance).

Overall, this is a very intriguing aspect of the series, as well as ominous... that one individual (BR) can pull so many strings using his particular brand of magic that it seems the possibility of the extent of his influence is, for all intents and purposes, limitless in many ways.

Edited by CJS 2207, 20 December 2011 - 01:49 PM.