291 replies to this topic

[Sci-2]

Yeah, I don't know, seems real to me.

Moving on -> First girl-girl kiss on TV is Star Trek DS 9 right?

[SkynJay]

peterbound, on 25 December 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

I know this story is going to go over like shit, but i'll tell it anyways:

We ran into a lot of this shit in Iraq.  I always found it odd, because the islamic faith isn't too hip to the whole gay thing, but it was really, really prevalent with the local nationals.  Anywho, we were helping with a school one day (inspecting it, ensuring it was up to code) and one of the volunteers relayed that they were having an issue that day because two kids (teenagers boys) were caught mid act.  The dad's didn't mind that they were fucking, but they were really upset because the boys wouldn't come out an say who was buggering who.  Seems being the fuckee was much, much worse than being the fucker.  It all seemed odd to me.

The details are very hazy 8 years later, but in college I took a class on sexuality in the Americas, and the section on pre revolution Cuba had the same issue.  It was only gay to receive.  And that made sense in some way.

[Myshkin]

SkynJay, on 25 December 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

It was only gay to receive.  And that made sense in some way.

Prison rules.

[Aoife]

Easy to pin it on sexism, though I don't think that's the only factor. If you receive, you're the "woman" of the pair, and that's unacceptable for a manly man's man.

[Memory Lane]

EDIT: Antonius Pius beat me to it.

Edited by Bass, 30 December 2011 - 02:18 AM.

[Sci-2]

Forgive me for a bit of resurrection, but really no one has seen Queer as Folk or the L-Word?

[Memory Lane]

sciborg2, on 30 December 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

Forgive me for a bit of resurrection, but really no one has seen Queer as Folk or the L-Word?

I'd vaguely heard of them, but I still had to check both on wikipedia to see what they were.

[Little Valkyrie]

A bit of a tangent, but anyone interested in sexuality in ancient Greece, but specifically Athens (which is one of the few places we have really quality sources for) should read James Davidson's Courtesans and Fishcakes: The Consuming Passions of Classical Athens.  It also has great discussion of food!  He argues against the view of sexuality as a binary of active/passive, and provides a lot of information about (what we now label as) both homosexual and heterosexual practices.  It's very readable, not dry at all.

[kalbear]

Ah, meant to talk about that. I've seen the L-Word. not seen QaF.

I didn't think the L-word was that great because it was kind of a shitty show. There were only a couple of characters that were interesting and it felt like they were basically going down the list of lesbian stereotypes when doing the show. Mostly, it was a soap opera, not a fantasy/sci-fi story, and the whole focus was on lesbianism. Which was somewhat interesting  but also somewhat bland.

Ultimately the characterizations sucked, period. I've heard much better about QaF.

[Lord O' Bones]

peterbound, on 25 December 2011 - 11:17 AM, said:

I honestly haven't heard any negative feedback from this.  I just don't think anyone cares any more.  

LoB you heard in anything in your circles?

Not so much as a peep.

peterbound, on 25 December 2011 - 11:46 AM, said:

After doing some research on various Military Message boards, the common consensus is that this photo was staged.  Hot ass lesbian kissing hot lesbian.

In whatever thread it was that broke that story here I made a similar comment. It does seem awfully convenient that they test the waters first with not only women instead of men, but two very attractive women.

[Verboten]

Lord O, on 30 December 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

Not so much as a peep.


In whatever thread it was that broke that story here I made a similar comment. It does seem awfully convenient that they test the waters first with not only women instead of men, but two very attractive women.

Honestly I don't think it really matters if it was staged or not, as long as the women are actually in a relationship. That's what people do when faced with finding a figurehead for something potentially controversial, they find an upstanding model citizen with a spotless record and a winning smile. Also, I don't really see a problem with the couple being women. The only real difference is that there will probably be a sudden rush of military themed pornography. My experience is of course slanted but I don't think bigots are any easier on gay women than they are on gay men. And once wannabe liberals get over the fact that 'ohmigod two girls are kissing, that is sooo hot' they get hostile for reasons currently unknown to me. Though I'd guess it's because they are ignorant and arrogant bastards who cannot believe that a woman would not like the almighty cock. /rant

[Grogsmash]

From my experiences in the navy on my first ship and in bootcamp (all men), there was a great deal of hostility towards homosexuals. It seemed to me that it was almost a compensation for the gay jokes sometimes directed at the navy. In bootcamp someone dropped an anonymous tip that I was gay to our company commander and that resulted in me being pulled out in front of the rest of the division and being yelled at for 30 minutes in front of everyone, screaming at me to confess that I was gay and how I was going to get a dishonourable discharge, etc. Not that it matters, but I am straight and the tip was done by someone that just wanted my bunk heh. There was also a scandal on my first ship where one of the petty officers had been blackmailing some people into sex with him and when it got busted almost all of the people in that division were transferred off. The few that weren't, were harassed quite a bit.

On my second ship, which had more women than men, there was again a great deal of hostility towards anyone perceived as gay or feminine as a man and at one physical confrontation that I witnessed and ended up going to Captains Mast. On the other hand, there were several female "friends" that people joked about as being lesbians and no one thought it a big deal at all. My division also had a female petty officer that joked constantly about her being gay in a half serious tone, whereas a male doing that in the ships that I was in would never have been in a safe position doing so.

So from my admittedly small view of the US Navy over 4 years and 2 ships, I think that the true test will be a male/male open relationship.

Edited by Grogsmash, 30 December 2011 - 05:38 PM.

[Lord O' Bones]

Verboten, on 30 December 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

Honestly I don't think it really matters if it was staged or not, as long as the women are actually in a relationship. That's what people do when faced with finding a figurehead for something potentially controversial, they find an upstanding model citizen with a spotless record and a winning smile.

It's supposed to be a random lottery draw. And the way it went down just seems a bit fishy. That said, if you don't mind it being staged I can't understand this logic. Attractive lesbian women are the upstanding model people of the gay community? Why wouldn't you find that insulting?

Quote

Also, I don't really see a problem with the couple being women.

Of course not. Just the odds were against it.

Grogsmash, on 30 December 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

I think that the true test will be a male/male open relationship.

Agreed.

[Verboten]

Lord O, on 30 December 2011 - 06:12 PM, said:

It's supposed to be a random lottery draw. And the way it went down just seems a bit fishy. That said, if you don't mind it being staged I can't understand this logic. Attractive lesbian women are the upstanding model people of the gay community? Why wouldn't you find that insulting?

I don't think it was staged. I think it may have been staged, and that it, depending on their personal histories, it makes sense to choose them. Yes I find it insulting, but I find the idea that because they were lesbians it must be staged just as insulting. All that really matters is the fact that there is a positive image of a pair of gay women with good careers being able to kiss on camera because of the support of their heterosexual colleagues. It's an incredibly positive thing, not that it might have been staged, but that they were allowed to do it at all.

[Grack21]

sciborg2, on 25 December 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

Yeah, I don't know, seems real to me.

Moving on -> First girl-girl kiss on TV is Star Trek DS 9 right?

I found this on that: http://www.afterelle...relativity.html

[felice]

Kalbear, on 30 December 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

Mostly, it was a soap opera, not a fantasy/sci-fi story, and the whole focus was on lesbianism.

That's something that bugs me, yeah. The overwhelming majority of lesbian films etc seem to be about lesbianism, and that gets boring after a while. I'd like to see more stories where the main characters are queer but that's not the whole point.

[Grack21]

felice, on 31 December 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

That's something that bugs me, yeah. The overwhelming majority of lesbian films etc seem to be about lesbianism, and that gets boring after a while. I'd like to see more stories where the main characters are queer but that's not the whole point.

This is the part of the thread were I recommend Buffy and people throw rocks at me.

[Arthmail]

I think people just want to throw rocks at you. Your avatar practically begs for it.

[Grack21]

Hey if they want to throw rocks at a totoro it's not my fault when they come in the night to eat their family.

[felice]

Grack21, on 01 January 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

This is the part of the thread were I recommend Buffy and people throw rocks at me.

Buffy is certainly a step in the right direction, though it has its flaws (eg neglecting Willow's partner, being way too coy about the relationship, and failing to understand the concept of bisexuality).