401 replies to this topic

[Jon AS]

Antonius Pius, on 04 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Void Stalker is out in pb next week, apparently (according to Amazon).

This confused me, but after checking the release date on amazon.co.uk it seems that Amazon Germany just likes to send out books a week or two early, sometimes. Fine by me.

[Antonius Pius]

Hmm, I simply thought you guys read the hardcover (and LotN probably an advance reading copy). I'll be keeping an eye out for differing release-dates on amazon.de... I suppose the rates and delivery-estimates aren't really different, and if I'm correct amazon.co.uk also despatches from some enormous warehouse in Germany.

[Lord of the Night]

There is no hardcover for Void Stalker, only a paperback. And Antonius you are right, my copy is an ARC. I get all my BL books that way. Its really awesome.

Oh and great choice ordering the Night Lords series, you won't be disappointed.


LotN

[Onion Smuggler]

Antonius Pius, on 04 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

I was about to pick up either Abnett's GG omnibus The Lost or the Ravenor omnibus, but I decided to postpone them. I'm rereading Hero of the Imperium (again) and I have some other stuff I want to finish first. But reading the introduction almost made my start the books in earnest. I both love and hate how you get sucked in.

Just finished that, I'd definitely recommend it to any fans of 40k, especially if you liked Eisenhorn.

[Antonius Pius]

Lord of the Night, on 04 May 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

There is no hardcover for Void Stalker, only a paperback. And Antonius you are right, my copy is an ARC. I get all my BL books that way. Its really awesome.

You ought to be, you'vre read more BL stuff than the Editors Militant!

Lord of the Night, on 04 May 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Oh and great choice ordering the Night Lords series, you won't be disappointed.

LotN

Yeah well, you have to say that, since you've been recommending them on practically every page of this thread!

Onion Smuggler, on 04 May 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Just finished that, I'd definitely recommend it to any fans of 40k, especially if you liked Eisenhorn.

I already own it, so I'll definititely get around to it sometime. I did like Eisenhorn, and I understand Ravenor is rated even more highly. I just feel like pacing this stuff (and the other stuff on my to-read-list) more, so I'll enjoy it more. Or less, if it's really crap, but I don't think that's the case here.

Edited by Antonius Pius, 04 May 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Nukelavee]

Picked up Soul Hunter, and Know No Fear, the other day.

[Lord of the Night]

Antonius Pius, on 04 May 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

You ought to be, you'vre read more BL stuff than the Editors Militant!

A fact I can take pride in.

Antonius Pius, on 04 May 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Yeah well, you have to say that, since you've been recommending them on practically every page of this thread!

Because they are that good.

Nukelavee, on 04 May 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Picked up Soul Hunter, and Know No Fear, the other day.

Two great choices. Soul Hunter is a definite recommendation from me, and Know No Fear has received mixed reaction because of its present tense narrative but I feel it makes the battle much more personal to the reader and makes the book great. KNF imo is the best Horus Heresy book thus far.


LotN

[Antonius Pius]

[Nukelavee]

Finished "Soul Hunter" - I really enjoyed it.

I know LotN is gonna disagree to a point, but I think ADB and DA both do a similar job with their stories, that is, they manage to make the over the top aspects of 40k seem workable.

I think it's the way both show the slow erosion of units, both numbers and character, over time.  Instead of nameless masses dieing, they make each death a loss, they show characters wondering about the future of their regiments, or Chapters.

Basically, both manage to enable me to accept a "war" that has gone on for 10,000 years, because neither settles for unified sides, they show why neither side can really just defeat teh other.

Gonna save the Abnett for a bit, and read the new Culture novel first.

Btw - anybody ever read "The Eye of Terror"?  An older stand alone 40k novel, about a "rogue trader",  and his unwilling Navigator, on an illicit trading venture in the Eye itself.  It's not great, but it's solid, and has some nice twists and aspects.  A Changer of teh Ways is a major character, as are a Traitor marine, and a 30k Loyalist marine who has been in stasis since the Heresy.

Plus, an interesting concept for the Emperor's existance.

[Lord of the Night]

Nukelavee, on 08 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Finished "Soul Hunter" - I really enjoyed it.

I know LotN is gonna disagree to a point, but I think ADB and DA both do a similar job with their stories, that is, they manage to make the over the top aspects of 40k seem workable.

I think it's the way both show the slow erosion of units, both numbers and character, over time.  Instead of nameless masses dieing, they make each death a loss, they show characters wondering about the future of their regiments, or Chapters.

Basically, both manage to enable me to accept a "war" that has gone on for 10,000 years, because neither settles for unified sides, they show why neither side can really just defeat teh other.

Why would I disagree on that? Its a great point that is true, both Abnett and ADB make the war personal by showing how deeply the bonds of brotherhood run in the Astartes and the Guard, and how keenly the loss is felt when they are severed.


LotN

[Nukelavee]

Actually, I think you would have disagreed with what I thought I was going to write, as opposed to what I did, lol.

Plus, I walked the Squig part way thru the post.

And It's too early to actually know what the hell I'm thinking when I think anything.

[peterbound]

Picked up this 'Eisenhorn' book today at my local book store.  I'll try to slog through it, and post my review of what i read during the day if i can get to it.  If nothing else, i'd like to know why they are called 'Marines', when in reality they look to have little ties to the proud tradition of the corps, or any navy.  Plus, i'm looking forward to this lightsaber scene that I heard about.

[Werthead]

peterbound, on 09 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

If nothing else, i'd like to know why they are called 'Marines', when in reality they look to have little ties to the proud tradition of the corps, or any navy.

They're highly mobile, elite forces which have to move on rapid deployment (they are not the entirety of the Imperial military, the bulk of which is made up of the 'normal' humans of the Imperial Guard). They have their own fleets which transport them to the battlefield. However, Space Marines play only a very minor role in the Eisenhorn trilogy, which is more focused on the Inquisitors.

[Lord of the Night]

peterbound, on 09 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Picked up this 'Eisenhorn' book today at my local book store.  I'll try to slog through it, and post my review of what i read during the day if i can get to it.  If nothing else, i'd like to know why they are called 'Marines', when in reality they look to have little ties to the proud tradition of the corps, or any navy.  Plus, i'm looking forward to this lightsaber scene that I heard about.

Werthead, on 09 May 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

They're highly mobile, elite forces which have to move on rapid deployment (they are not the entirety of the Imperial military, the bulk of which is made up of the 'normal' humans of the Imperial Guard). They have their own fleets which transport them to the battlefield. However, Space Marines play only a very minor role in the Eisenhorn trilogy, which is more focused on the Inquisitors.

Werthead has it right, on both points. Though the Marines do have many traditions and beliefs that fit in with military and cult beliefs. Some are far more traditional than others, and some are very unbound by them though these chapters are rare.

Eisenhorn focuses on the Inquisitors and the factions within, the Puritans and the Radicals. Personally I think the Eisenhorn and Ravenor series both pose two really good questions. When you fight evil, how far will you go to win? And how far is too far?


LotN

Edited by Lord of the Night, 09 May 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Antonius Pius]

peterbound, on 09 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Picked up this 'Eisenhorn' book today at my local book store.  I'll try to slog through it, and post my review of what i read during the day if i can get to it.  If nothing else, i'd like to know why they are called 'Marines', when in reality they look to have little ties to the proud tradition of the corps, or any navy.

On the face of it there are some similarities, but they're all caught up in the events and particular setting of the 30K universe (Horus Heresy) or 40K (all else), so it's definitely not a straight line from the US Marine Corps. Plus they're genetically engineered super-soldiers, so there's quite a big divide to span...

peterbound, on 09 May 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Plus, i'm looking forward to this lightsaber scene that I heard about.

You do realise that was a joke, right?

Lord of the Night, on 09 May 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Eisenhorn focuses on the Inquisitors and the factions within, the Puritans and the Radicals. Personally I think the Eisenhorn and Ravenor series both pose two really good questions. When you fight evil, how far will you go to win? And how far is too far?

But they're the wrong choice if Peterbound wants to critique "Bolter-porn".

Spoiler

I loved how Eisenhorn got so caught up in his personal crusade he became (almost) as bad as the demon he was chasing. Fucking up his colleague of how many years (I forget his name, the one he recruits from the Arbites almost at the start of the first book) was a real evil move.

[Lord of the Night]

Antonius Pius, on 09 May 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

But they're the wrong choice if Peterbound wants to critique "Bolter-porn".

Spoiler

I loved how Eisenhorn got so caught up in his personal crusade he became (almost) as bad as the demon he was chasing. Fucking up his colleague of how many years (I forget his name, the one he recruits from the Arbites almost at the start of the first book) was a real evil move.

Indeed. Abnett does not write "Bolter-porn".

Spoiler

True but Fischig did betray him to Osma and Heldane. That was a completely traitorous thing to do, especially considering that he knew Osma hated Eisenhorn and would want him to be guilty. That said Eisenhorn is still a fairly decent person, he's just fallen into the trap of Radicalism. The truth behind fighting Chaos with Chaos is very simple. It. Doesn't. Work. Inquisitor Czevak said so in Atlas Infernal and he is right, Chaos corrupts and if you think you can use it for good then it may already be too late for you.

Another great Inquisitor novel is Atlas Infernal by Rob Sanders. It deals with a Radical Inquisitor named Czevak, and features the Inquisition, Eldar, Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons, and has some of the best depictions of Chaos i've read. It really captures the madness and horror of it.


LotN

[Nukelavee]

Peter - If you are going in with the attitude of being a harsh critic, why bother?  It would be like me picking up a book by, sigh, Bakker.

The only reason I'd read Bakker is to punch holes in his writing.

Besides -  GW is a British company, with mostly British talent and designers - Their marines aren't your Corps.

Here's the thing- 40k is a damn cheesy premise - It's scale is over the top.  A space opera galactic empire of millions of worlds, multiple powerful enemies, "magic", with a timeline that goes back aeons...But, some of these writers manage to make you forget how absurd the setting is, and tell stories that make it work while you are reading.

It's actually kind of the opposite of Banks and the Culture.

[SkynJay]

Antonius Pius, on 09 May 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

You do realise that was a joke, right?

No no, when I read Eisenhorn it caused me to wonder about the sanity of people recommending the book.  It was one short scene, but the title character does pull what is basically a lightsaber at one point.  Thankfully, it was not brought up again.

[Lord of the Night]

Nukelavee, on 09 May 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Here's the thing- 40k is a damn cheesy premise - It's scale is over the top.  A space opera galactic empire of millions of worlds, multiple powerful enemies, "magic", with a timeline that goes back aeons...But, some of these writers manage to make you forget how absurd the setting is, and tell stories that make it work while you are reading.

It's actually kind of the opposite of Banks and the Culture.

I dunno about cheesy. Really the premise behind 40k is that anything and everything that could have gone wrong with humanity's future, has and then some. We are a fanatical, xenophobic, cruel and fading empire in the galaxy surrounded by hostile aliens who want to enslave us, kill us or both, by traitors who want to corrupt us or kill us and deliver our reality to their Dark Gods, and are assailed from within by heretics to our faith, traitors to our race and mutants that hate us. The Horus Heresy series shows what could have been had things been different, and 40k books show what is. These are the examples I find best to show how bad life in the 40k universe is for a human.

Invention is heresy. The Adeptus Mechanicus holds that all technology already exists and if they do not have it, they must find it. To invent something new is to put yourself on the same level as the Machine God, the highest tek-heresy. The punishment is to be lobotomised and converted into a Servitor to serve the Machine God you blasphemed against. This also means that the Imperium's technology has not changed in 10,000 years, and won't change at all. And of course the xenos do not have this limitation. Ork and Tau technology get deadlier with every century, the Eldar and Necrons are already masters of technology and the Chaos Space Marines are constantly inventing new and horrible Chaos-infused tech.

Exterminatus. The destruction of an entire world overrun by the enemy. And the reason it was invented? To destroy worlds taken by the enemy that are not worth the amount of troops it would take to get them back. This is the key reason the Imperium destroys many of the worlds it loses, they are not worth what it would take to get them back and neither are the people living on them.

Human life has no value. The best example of this is the Armageddon crisis. The Daemon Prince Angron and his forces invade the planet Armageddon and are held back only by a beyond valiant defence by the Space Wolves and the Armageddon Steel Legion. At the end the Grey Knights arrive and banish Angron at great cost, losing nearly 100 elite Terminators, and a Grey Knight Terminator is worth twenty of any other Terminator. And the Inquisition's first decision. Execute every single Guardsman who fought on the planet for seeing Angron and the Grey Knights, sterilize the civilian population and ship them out to slave camps across the galaxy and then pretend the whole thing never happened. That is the original version, the updated version in ADB's The Emperor's Gift is even worse as the Space Wolves manage to save those soldiers and get them safely to their home planets... all of which the Inquisition promptly destroy so that those soldiers cannot talk about what they saw.

40k is a horrific universe, and damn fun to read about as well. But those are just a few of the things that make 40k interesting and show just how wrong our future has gone.


LotN

[Antonius Pius]

Lord of the Night, on 09 May 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Spoiler

True but Fischig did betray him to Osma and Heldane. That was a completely traitorous thing to do, especially considering that he knew Osma hated Eisenhorn and would want him to be guilty. That said Eisenhorn is still a fairly decent person, he's just fallen into the trap of Radicalism. The truth behind fighting Chaos with Chaos is very simple. It. Doesn't. Work. Inquisitor Czevak said so in Atlas Infernal and he is right, Chaos corrupts and if you think you can use it for good then it may already be too late for you.

Spoiler

I'm not all too sanguine about the details, butIIRC Eisenhorn made Fischig a slave of a chaos-demon in or something like that, which was very harsh. I don't recall Osma, but I do recall Fischig turned against Eisenhorn. But he was right to do so, since Eisenhorn went off the deep end and already far more tainted than he wanted to admit. Fischig and Heldane had right on their side, or as much of that as there is in the 40K universe.

SkynJay, on 09 May 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

No no, when I read Eisenhorn it caused me to wonder about the sanity of people recommending the book.  It was one short scene, but the title character does pull what is basically a lightsaber at one point.  Thankfully, it was not brought up again.

Hmm, that has slipped my mind.