401 replies to this topic

[Lexicon Devil]

I got it used for $4.80 plus shipping. I would like to support the publisher but they don't seem to want that.

[Nukelavee]

SkynJay.

Dear sweet innocent Skynjay...

The is Games Workshop.  You, and others like you, are gravy.  The people who play their games are the roast ham, spuds, 3 vegatables, biscuits, salad, hazlenut torte...

The books, the Omnibuses, AREN"T a sweet sweet first taste, my friend, they are simply another, fringe, product their addicted players buy in vast amounts.  You have simply know idea just how much the average GW player spends regularly, or just how cultish it's devotee's are.

They are hooked, AND THEY LIKE IT.

And they want you to physically go to the store for your books, where you can be played like a marlin until they land you.  But they've already landed their quota, and their fans put up with this shit.

Trust me, I know.  I worked in that business, I know/knew their staff.

[Lord of the Night]

Eisenhorn is one of the more popular Black Library series, and one of the better ones. Ravenor falls a bit shorter in comparison. I prefer Eisenhorn for a more likeable cast of characters and a better overall story, that said Ravenor has some great moments that outshine Eisenhorn and vice versa.

Also the coming Bequin, or Eisenhorn vs Ravenor, trilogy has had its first novel announced and confirmed for November 2012, I am eagerly anticipating this.


As for ebooks and going off-site I do not buy ebooks, but that's because I don't like ebooks period (Ebooks do not replace real books). Black Library prices are a bit higher but as I live in the UK I once used to buy them direct from the site because I would get them a month in advance. Now I review their books for them and in exchange I get them for free in advance, but even if I didn't I would still buy them as I think getting them a month in advance is worth an extra £3 per book. And I would not buy omnibuses unless I didn't have the books.


LotN

[SkynJay]

I took a flyer and picked up Eisenhorn and Ravenor online.  If I hate them, I'm out ten bucks if i factor in trade credit at the local used book store.  Prob start them in a week or two.  Thanks Wert for the reviews.

All this because I really wanted to read Ravenor due to one single review.

edit: Oh, and it wasn't a complete shot in the dark.  Abnett wrote a book for Angry Robot called Triumff that I just finished, and I loved that. It was like a Christopher Moore book, but with a ending that doesn't suck.

Edited by SkynJay, 23 January 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[Nukelavee]

Personally, Skynjay, I think you're in for a treat.

[Lannes]

I really liked the first 4 Horus Heresy books....but does anyone else get the idea that The Horus Heresy is a series that is going to go on and on and on....Don't get me wrong, I like long series, but, I just have a feeling that God only knows how long this one will go.....

[Jon AS]

Lannes, on 23 January 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I really liked the first 4 Horus Heresy books....but does anyone else get the idea that The Horus Heresy is a series that is going to go on and on and on....Don't get me wrong, I like long series, but, I just have a feeling that God only knows how long this one will go.....

I think GW would love for it to go on for a good long while, because AFAIK it outsells all other books they publish. But on the other hand I've seen comments by some of the writers involved saying that they'd prefer to set a definite end for it, and sooner rather than later.

[Nukelavee]

From what I've heard...

The thing about the 40k universe is, the company seems to have a real problem resolving anything with the Emperor.  How he "dies", if he'll ever return, or just fade away.

Certain writers, like Abnett, seem to be guiding the narrative to a point where something will have to become definate, and actually move the "modern" storylines forward, and that requires actually nailing down the Emperor's fate/future, which has to be at least seeded with the end of the Heresy.

The other thing, is that the books have really taken off, but GW is primarily about their market, which is figures and rules, with the books just addingto the gamer's experience.  So - dragging things out is really based on what products they have planned.

[Werthead]

Interestingly, GW are apparently repositioning their market in the UK. Thanks to the LotR movies and wargame, the Dawn of War games and so on, they had a huge sales boost in the 2000s which is apparently now fading back to their pre-2001 levels, when they specialised more in their more expensive - but more profitable - model lines. That makes sidelines, such as the novels, more important than they were a few years ago.

Interestingly, from new press releases Dan Abnett's sales for the Black Library alone (not counting his comics work) have now passed 1.5 million, making him the UK's second-biggest-selling SF author (behind Peter F. Hamilton and some way ahead of Alastair Reynolds and Iain Banks).

[Jon AS]

Nukelavee, on 23 January 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Certain writers, like Abnett, seem to be guiding the narrative to a point where something will have to become definate, and actually move the "modern" storylines forward, and that requires actually nailing down the Emperor's fate/future, which has to be at least seeded with the end of the Heresy.

They don't really have to seed anything with the series. They've rewritten the details of the confrontation between Horus and the Emperor about half a dozen times or so, one thing GW definitely don't care about is creating a consistent "canon".

Nukelavee, on 23 January 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

The other thing, is that the books have really taken off, but GW is primarily about their market, which is figures and rules, with the books just addingto the gamer's experience.  So - dragging things out is really based on what products they have planned.

I've always wondered why they never released miniatures of the Primarchs for example (not counting the first edition version of Russ and the epic models of some of the Demon Primarchs). Particularly with the popularity of the novels I'd think they'd sell exceptionally well. On the other hand they've moved away from extremely powerful characters since 2nd edition (so you'll need to buy more miniatures...).

[Nukelavee]

Jon - what I meant by seed, actually, is to pick a fate for the Emperor.  Not, btw, whether or not Horus guts him like a trout, but...10k later, does he pass, die, enter the warp, is he reborn?

All have been given as his fate, and then re-written - somebody has to pick one of those, and set it up at teh end of the Heresy.

Plus - who gets to write the scene?  It's gonna be a big deal to the guy who has "the" final fight scene in his book.

Maybe ForgeWorld will release primarchs...

I agree about the lack of canon, GW thrives on rewrites.

and stealing rule systems.

[Lord of the Night]

Lannes, on 23 January 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I really liked the first 4 Horus Heresy books....but does anyone else get the idea that The Horus Heresy is a series that is going to go on and on and on....Don't get me wrong, I like long series, but, I just have a feeling that God only knows how long this one will go.....

The series will go on until the Siege of Terra is complete. The next book is the Battle of Calth so we aren't that far off from the Siege, but we aren't very close either. I'd say the series could easily reach 30 books before its done, and the Siege is just too huge to be one book. It could be a trilogy of its own.

After that the series may end and transition into The Great Scouring, the Imperium's counter-attack against Chaos with such brilliant moments as the Iron Cage, The Destruction of Caliban and Guilliman becoming Regent of the Imperium. I do hope this happens, mainly for the Iron Cage. Its a really brutal battle.

I also want the Battle of Tallarn. Its not relevant to the overall Heresy story, in fact its one fact of the battle that makes it remarkable. It was the largest tank battle in history, over a million tanks clashed on Tallarn and even ten thousand years later the deserts are still filled with wrecked vehicles from the past.

Nukelavee, on 23 January 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

From what I've heard...

The thing about the 40k universe is, the company seems to have a real problem resolving anything with the Emperor.  How he "dies", if he'll ever return, or just fade away.

Certain writers, like Abnett, seem to be guiding the narrative to a point where something will have to become definate, and actually move the "modern" storylines forward, and that requires actually nailing down the Emperor's fate/future, which has to be at least seeded with the end of the Heresy.

The other thing, is that the books have really taken off, but GW is primarily about their market, which is figures and rules, with the books just addingto the gamer's experience.  So - dragging things out is really based on what products they have planned.

The Emperor's wounding is clear. He refused to harm Horus in the fight and only did when a lone Guardsman/Imperial Fist/Custodian (Its not clear anymore) walked in and attacked Horus out of sheer fury. Horus flayed the poor bastard alive and this convinced the Emperor that his favoured son was truly dead, and he used the chink in Horus's armour that Sanguinius gave his life to make and smashed him psychically, finally annihilating his soul forever. After that he was interred within the Golden Throne and depending on whether you believe the Imperials he is still alive to this day keeping the Astronomicon active, or if you believe Chaos he died then and the Imperium just propped his corpse on the throne.

As for a final fate he'll never get that. Maybe he really did become a God-Emperor, or maybe Chaos is right and he's dead and the Chaos Gods are rending his soul forever, or something else that nobody could predict. Its all about the possibility, but setting up a final fate is the entirely wrong move. It removes the mystery about him and whether or not the Imperium is right and the Emperor really does protect. Its the same as the Missing Primarchs, we don't know what happened to them and we'll never know, in fact in their case there is no actual answer. The writers never came up with one, Primarchs II and XI are solely for the mystery and not the answer. As is the Emperor's ultimate fate.

And likely Dan Abnett will write the final scene with the Emperor. I can't think of anyone more fitting, perhaps Graham McNeill but it'd be a tough contest.

And things may change in 40k but I read in an author's blog, I don't remember which one, that the Horus Heresy is fixed and will not change anymore. They are happy with how it is and retconning it will not happen, as the way it is now sets up the 40k universe perfectly. The Heresy is the death of hope and the future, that leading into an age of decay.

[Nukelavee]

and then there are days i wonder if teh Emperor is a half-wit.

I'll admit - I want to see the Imperium get some hope, get a couple big powers rolling.

Oh, and once, just once, I want a human character to say to an eldar "By the way, you arrogant goat's pizzle, thanks for fucking Slaneesh.  Bang up job, sport."

[Arthmail]

Nukelavee, on 23 January 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

and then there are days i wonder if teh Emperor is a half-wit.

I'll admit - I want to see the Imperium get some hope, get a couple big powers rolling.

Oh, and once, just once, I want a human character to say to an eldar "By the way, you arrogant goat's pizzle, thanks for fucking Slaneesh.  Bang up job, sport."

I've read the Lost omnibus, and am currently reading Ravenor omnibus, and what you just said makes no sense at all.

Where to go from here? Horus Heresy? That Cain fellow everyone seems to think is a hoot?

[Jon AS]

Arthmail, on 23 January 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

Where to go from here? Horus Heresy? That Cain fellow everyone seems to think is a hoot?

Depends. Cain is funny (sort of a throwback to the origins of the setting, really) but a bit repetitive. It's probably more fun if you space it out between other books.

Everybody knows the general gist of the Heresy, and it's not written as one continuous story, so I've just picked up some books that seemed to have an interesting premise. The First Heretic was the best of those, with A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns being quite good, as well (they aren't exactly mirrors of each other, despite basically telling two sides of the same story, but both are tales of hubris and how it leads to tragedy).

The first two novels of the Night Lords trilogy, Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, might be my favourite novels in the setting so far. Nice to have a group of villains who aren't cartoonish, their characterisation is good enough to make you care about the their fate, despite everything.

[nickg]

Im liking the Night Lords trilogy quite a bit. I have finished Soul Hunter and am reading Blood Reaver right now. Both are good.  

I also ordered the Enforcer omnibus last week ( its delayed though, should get it thrusday ). Not sure what to expect really, but the main character is a woman and a member of the Arbites instead of Space Marines. A welcome change.

[Arthmail]

You know, when  men used to be men and own ships and sail the seven seas, you could have gotten away with calling your ride Blood Reaver.

Not so much for my Nissan Frontier, but i'm going to try.

Edited by Arthmail, 24 January 2012 - 02:36 AM.

[Antonius Pius]

nickg, on 24 January 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Im liking the Night Lords trilogy quite a bit. I have finished Soul Hunter and am reading Blood Reaver right now. Both are good.

A quick search on Amazon doesn't reveal the Night Lords trilogy. Only Blood Reaver and Soul Hunter (and Void Stalker, which apparently isn't released yet). Which is the last book of the trilogy, and is it available as an omnibus, or not yet?

(Also, the Night Lords are Chaos Marines, right? )

Arthmail, on 24 January 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

You know, when  men used to be men and own ships and sail the seven seas, you could have gotten away with calling your ride Blood Reaver.

Not so much for my Nissan Frontier, but i'm going to try.

How about Runefist? You could paint some gibberish on the side for added effect.

[Jon AS]

Antonius Pius, on 24 January 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

A quick search on Amazon doesn't reveal the Night Lords trilogy. Only Blood Reaver and Soul Hunter (and Void Stalker, which apparently isn't released yet). Which is the last book of the trilogy, and is it available as an omnibus, or not yet?

Yeah, the third one isn't out yet, but it's planned as a trilogy. All three books are (will be) paperback, so going by omnibus pricing, you could save about 5 bucks by waiting for the omnibus.

Antonius Pius, on 24 January 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

(Also, the Night Lords are Chaos Marines, right? )

They are traitor marines (of course they like to think of it as the Imperium betraying them), but not all-out Chaos worshippers. The warband the books focus on is lead by a Chaos Marine and has some members that are totally cool with serving Chaos, but in the minds of many others they're still the tenth company of the VIII Legion and following Chaos is as bad as being an Emperor worshipping loyalist to these latters. The resulting friction is one of the driving forces of the story.

Antonius Pius, on 24 January 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

How about Runefist? You could paint some gibberish on the side for added effect.

There's actually a brief exchange about the ridiculous names in Blood Reaver. Basically, the point being made there is that since these kinds of names are everywhere in 40k, nobody really has a leg to stand on when making fun of somebody for it.

[Antonius Pius]

Jon AS, on 24 January 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

Yeah, the third one isn't out yet, but it's planned as a trilogy. All three books are (will be) paperback, so going by omnibus pricing, you could save about 5 bucks by waiting for the omnibus.

Thanks. I think I'll stick with the omnibuses then. Aside from being more cost-efficient, I also like the feel of good big book.

Jon AS, on 24 January 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

They are traitor marines (of course they like to think of it as the Imperium betraying them), but not all-out Chaos worshippers. The warband the books focus on is lead by a Chaos Marine and has some members that are totally cool with serving Chaos, but in the minds of many others they're still the tenth company of the VIII Legion and following Chaos is as bad as being an Emperor worshipping loyalist to these latters. The resulting friction is one of the driving forces of the story.

That's good to know. Sounds interesting.

Jon AS, on 24 January 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

There's actually a brief exchange about the ridiculous names in Blood Reaver. Basically, the point being made there is that since these kinds of names are everywhere in 40k, nobody really has a leg to stand on when making fun of somebody for it.