236 replies to this topic

[Lady Octarina]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 23 February 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Great post. I never thought of it as bran being used as an instrument for r'hllor, but it makes a lot of sense. I really think melisandre is being ignorant lately with her viewing of the flames. she is asking. she is receiving, but she isn't making sense of what she is seeing. when is she going to realize that stannis isn't azor ahai???

I believe she has already realized, somewhere between her chapter and Jon's last, and that's why she'll save him after the stabbing. But that's just speculation, though I'm certain that she has to know that in TWoW.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Lady Octarina, on 23 February 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I believe she has already realized, somewhere between her chapter and Jon's last, and that's why she'll save him after the stabbing. But that's just speculation, though I'm certain that she has to know that in TWoW.

i really hope so, because its beginning to get repetitive. by saving him, do we think his wounds will smoke (like Victarion) or will he be another undead please GRRM don't let that happen its getting so old ?

[Lady Octarina]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 23 February 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

i really hope so, because its beginning to get repetitive. by saving him, do we think his wounds will smoke (like Victarion) or will he be another undead please GRRM don't let that happen its getting so old ?

That is the question. Well, his wound has already smoked, so who knows?

[Silent_Hero]

Am I the only one who thinks Asha just wants Theon to die so he can end his painful existence?

I mean if she brings theon back for the Kingsmoot thingy the ironmen will will be shocked and would never pick a broken half dead zombie castrated missing-limbed Thrice-turnedcloak ugly freak as their king.

[Morthanc]

Silent_Hero, on 24 February 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Am I the only one who thinks Asha just wants Theon to die so he can end his painful existence?

I mean if she brings theon back for the Kingsmoot thingy the ironmen will will be shocked and would never pick a broken half dead zombie castrated missing-limbed Thrice-turnedcloak ugly freak as their king.

Even Theon wants to end his painful existence.

[Falrinn]

Silent_Hero, on 24 February 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Am I the only one who thinks Asha just wants Theon to die so he can end his painful existence?

I mean if she brings theon back for the Kingsmoot thingy the ironmen will will be shocked and would never pick a broken half dead zombie castrated missing-limbed Thrice-turnedcloak ugly freak as their king.

That's definitely part of it.

Theon's probably cool with it to since he has an absolutely miserable existence and he probably feels that if he can't die at sea, dying before the Old Gods, who (from his perspective) seem to have taken an interest in him is the next best thing.

However since the "old god" who has taken in interest in Theon is actually Bran and/or Bloodraven, dying might not be in the cards for Theon.  I'm thinking they want to use him as a sort of avatar to communicate more clearly with those south of the wall.  A normal human can't be warged without causing serious problems (Varamyr's attempt to do just that was disastrous to say the least), but one that's been mentally compromised is a different story.

[TheColdWinds]

I think Bran is going to have some interesting conversions with past Eddard, Lyanna, Uncle Benjin, Uncle Brandon, and many kings  of the north. Maybe even the past Jon Snow as the prince who was promised. He may even have enough sway to...and i know how this sounds.....but....CHANGE TIME AND BRING NED BACK, and maybe Lyanna will never die and Jon will be raised a prince, there wont be a rebellion, rhaegar will be king, and the realm will then rally to defeat the others, after they fail this time around, because honestly how will the others be beaten?

[AlexKerscher]

TheColdWinds, on 26 February 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I think Bran is going to have some interesting conversions with past Eddard, Lyanna, Uncle Benjin, Uncle Brandon, and many kings  of the north. Maybe even the past Jon Snow as the prince who was promised. He may even have enough sway to...and i know how this sounds.....but....CHANGE TIME AND BRING NED BACK, and maybe Lyanna will never die and Jon will be raised a prince, there wont be a rebellion, rhaegar will be king, and the realm will then rally to defeat the others, after they fail this time around, because honestly how will the others be beaten?

Yes and all pain will go away and we can live happly ever after on a mountain of sugar and milk.

[Lady Octarina]

TheColdWinds, on 26 February 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I think Bran is going to have some interesting conversions with past Eddard, Lyanna, Uncle Benjin, Uncle Brandon, and many kings  of the north. Maybe even the past Jon Snow as the prince who was promised. He may even have enough sway to...and i know how this sounds.....but....CHANGE TIME AND BRING NED BACK, and maybe Lyanna will never die and Jon will be raised a prince, there wont be a rebellion, rhaegar will be king, and the realm will then rally to defeat the others, after they fail this time around, because honestly how will the others be beaten?

I agree with the part that he may have "conversations" with dead Starks in the past (though not directly, more likely just small bits of interference that lead them to behave in a certain way without letting them know they were led in that direction by someone else, much less Bran). The rest is not ASoIaF.

[Lord Bear Mormont]

I think Bran will end up back at Winterfell in the Godswood with a host of ravens at his disposal and he will be the "Third Eye" for all of Westeros

[the wolf warg]

bran will be the stark in winterfell and will rebuild his home, if u pay attention to the books one of georges themes is history repeating itself like with dany and the dragons all the kingdoms rising again to be "KINGDOMS" the others return,plus others...

brandon stark is the reincarnation of bran the builder, "IT IS KNOWN"

[Carter209]

I've been playing around with the idea that Bran may warg Theon, just so that he doesn't have to keep squawking out singular words using ravens. Bran is perhaps the single most powerful in Westeros, behind Bloodraven himself, and we know that he's already warged into Hodor. Theon's mind has been broken by the Bastard, which would make it easier for Bran to turn him into his own Coldhands.

One snag in this is that I am not sure whether he could warg someone through a weirwood. If he can, it would give Bran a way back into the story without leaving the tree throne. If not...well it looks like Hodor may have a permanent guest upstairs. (Yes it's degrading/terrible/down right shitty that Bran would completely take over Hodor now, but as much as he may enjoy being the next greenseer, he still wants to be a knight. Plus, if the paste is really made out of pieces of Jojen and Meera, like hell Bran Stark is going to stay 100% committed to Bloodraven and the children.)

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Carter209, on 27 February 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

I've been playing around with the idea that Bran may warg Theon, just so that he doesn't have to keep squawking out singular words using ravens. Bran is perhaps the single most powerful in Westeros, behind Bloodraven himself, and we know that he's already warged into Hodor. Theon's mind has been broken by the Bastard, which would make it easier for Bran to turn him into his own Coldhands.

i really like your idea about him being able to warg Theon because of his broken mind. That would be really cool if he could do that, but I think Theon is going to gain some of his mental strength back and play a big role in bringing some strength back to the north.

[Beanie]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 23 February 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

haha. i think he will continue to have a POV, even if its only a few in the next book,I don't think they'll totally leave us stranded, moreso because then we won't know what happened to Jojen and Meera

Plus, if not, it might take way longer than only two more books to untangle this story... Not that I am complaining though...

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Beanie, on 28 February 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Plus, if not, it might take way longer than only two more books to untangle this story... Not that I am complaining though...

good point. a lot of the story lines in the books have endings that you can begin to see forming, but i'm not sure where GRRM is going to take Bran and the Reed's at all. I'm anxious to see if eventually he will let sneak some information about their stories before the next book comes out.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 27 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

i really like your idea about him being able to warg Theon because of his broken mind. That would be really cool if he could do that, but I think Theon is going to gain some of his mental strength back and play a big role in bringing some strength back to the north.

I agree.  The saga has a lot of instances of redemption, from Jamie's quest for lost honor(which what i think is the word that Brienne uses to compel Catelyn to set her free- Tully motto= Family, Duty, Honor, Davos' transformation from smuggler to Kings Hand, Dany's rise, ect. ect. Theon would just be another example of this. And a very compelling one at that.

Edited by TheeMikeHoncho, 28 February 2012 - 04:15 AM.

[AlexKerscher]

Carter209, on 27 February 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

I've been playing around with the idea that Bran may warg Theon, just so that he doesn't have to keep squawking out singular words using ravens. Bran is perhaps the single most powerful in Westeros, behind Bloodraven himself, and we know that he's already warged into Hodor. Theon's mind has been broken by the Bastard, which would make it easier for Bran to turn him into his own Coldhands.

One snag in this is that I am not sure whether he could warg someone through a weirwood. If he can, it would give Bran a way back into the story without leaving the tree throne. If not...well it looks like Hodor may have a permanent guest upstairs. (Yes it's degrading/terrible/down right shitty that Bran would completely take over Hodor now, but as much as he may enjoy being the next greenseer, he still wants to be a knight. Plus, if the paste is really made out of pieces of Jojen and Meera, like hell Bran Stark is going to stay 100% committed to Bloodraven and the children.)

That... does make a lot of sense. Maybe he needs Theon around the Weirwood Tree so he can get eye contact with him to Warg into Theon or something like that.

Just imagine the confusion... "I'm Reek! I'm Theon! Also Bran Stark! Seriously! Arya is not Arya!". The northmen will probably think he went completely nuts.

[Carter209]

To take it a step further, Theon was a POV before AFFC/ADWD, in other words, before the books that covered the planned 5 year gap. Most of those who were POV's in just those 2 books(Asha, Vic, Brienne to name a few) are now around people who were POV's who were from books 1-3. I have always considered these to be the "main" POV's, so to speak, moreso than those that were written to just relay information that would have been to difficult to communicate with the 5 year gap. This, more than anything else, makes me believe Theon doesn't die at the weirwood. Plus, Bran needs a surrogate like Bloodraven had Coldhands to let the northmen know, "Hey guys, there's a much bigger problem coming from beyond the Wall. Y'all need to get your selves straightened out otherwise you will die". If the old gods were to warg Theon Turncloak, it's the only way the northmen or Stannis don't kill him.

Edited by Carter209, 28 February 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Falrinn]

AlexKerscher, on 28 February 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

That... does make a lot of sense. Maybe he needs Theon around the Weirwood Tree so he can get eye contact with him to Warg into Theon or something like that.

Just imagine the confusion... "I'm Reek! I'm Theon! Also Bran Stark! Seriously! Arya is not Arya!". The northmen will probably think he went completely nuts.

He'll probably get the ravens to squawk something relevant, like "vessel! vessel! vessel!", prior to warging into Theon.  Then when Theon suddenly starts saying things he couldn't possibly know, people might think he's somehow become a vessel for the Old Gods.  The Northmen will love it and Stannis's men will be completely terrified.

If Bran is smart he won't actually identify himself in this.  He'll just say something like "I am one of what you call the Old Gods", which is technically true even if it's a bit misleading.  That way Stannis will not dare execute Theon if he wants to retain the support of the Northmen.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Falrinn, on 28 February 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

He'll probably get the ravens to squawk something relevant, like "vessel! vessel! vessel!", prior to warging into Theon.  Then when Theon suddenly starts saying things he couldn't possibly know, people might think he's somehow become a vessel for the Old Gods.  The Northmen will love it and Stannis's men will be completely terrified.

such a cool idea. the birds just chanting "others" "others" and all of a sudden theon shows up spitting out info he couldn't possibly know.