59 replies to this topic

[Chelisandre]

Yes I did, LF is the MAN!! Now if only you could trust him...

[Lyanna Stark]

Balefont, on 05 March 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Sansa has a good shot of becoming queen if Littlefinger's plotting works.

Edited for spoiler tag fail.

Spoiler

Did you all read the the Alayne chapter when Littlefinger breaks down the lineage that would make Harry the Heir king?

Yep, and further Littlefinger is teaching Sansa, but already she is figuring things out he does not understand she knows. He may be after putting Sansa on the throne, but once she is there, how can he stop her chucking *him* out the Moon Door? Nothing. Sansa is good at hiding behind her courtesy and what seems like ignorance, but underneath, she is learning. Eventually, someone (read: Littlefinger) will udnerestimate her and then she will make her move.

It also makes more sense that Sansa would be Cersei's downfaill since Sansa is Cersei's antithesis in many things. While Cersei grew up to be cynical, selfish, greedy, short-sighted, bitter, petty, cruel and mean, Sansa is growing out of being selfish, petty and short-sighted.

On the other hand, I am of the opinion that Cersei is so paranoid she's creating her own downfall and it doesn't matter who will be queen after her: as long as it is a younger, fairly pretty queen, she will fit the prophecy.

[Gala]

Lyanna Stark, on 06 March 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yep, and further Littlefinger is teaching Sansa, but already she is figuring things out he does not understand she knows. He may be after putting Sansa on the throne, but once she is there, how can he stop her chucking *him* out the Moon Door? Nothing. Sansa is good at hiding behind her courtesy and what seems like ignorance, but underneath, she is learning. Eventually, someone (read: Littlefinger) will udnerestimate her and then she will make her move.

I actually would love to see Sansa saying things like "I've had only one father!… Lord Eddard Stark! " and LF flies though the Mood Door. It is probably ridiculous, but when he said something like "in better world you would be my daughter" I was furious. ha, in this world she is a daughter of a better man already!

[Ygrette]

You all put a LOT of trust in that old hag.
I actually believe Cersei is just a paranoid nut, obsessed with something an old woman once said to scare her.

[The Roaring Bear]

Who is the beautiful new queen?
All of them. Any of them.  Whoever is queen after cersei.

I mean like all fortune tellers the Maggy just stated what will happen.
There will always be a new, young queen to replace the old.

Granted, Maggy hit the mark a few times, naming the number of Children that Robert would have and those that Cersei would have et cetera, but the rest seems pretty general.


Like the old Greek story about a king going to Delphi to see the Oracle as to whether or not he should attack another polis.

The Oracle said "If you attack, a great king will fall" (or something similar)
Of course this is the way of warfare and someone has to lose.  It ended up being the king who went to the oracle thinking that her prophecy was in reference to his enemy.

[TheDrawback]

Lyanna Stark, on 06 March 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

On the other hand, I am of the opinion that Cersei is so paranoid she's creating her own downfall and it doesn't matter who will be queen after her: as long as it is a younger, fairly pretty queen, she will fit the prophecy.

Im totally agreeing on that one  

[NotSoGreat Jon Umber]

It's Dany, Sansa or Margerry Tyrrel. Or even Arya... why not?

[ckal]

Would seem like Dany is the most obvious choice.

Don't know if that means the most likely choice though...

[Retoreance Stone]

At first I thought Dany but lately I have been thinking Cersei's own daughter Myrcella could be the one that the frog is talking about. Im only on chap 27, but I think that would be rather ironic if it was her.

[DornishFroggy]

Margaery is the new beatiful queen to cast Cersei down. I loath them both!  But first,I want to know who took the little slut's maidenhead. I doubt is was Renly.

[ckal]

Retoreance Stone, on 09 June 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

At first I thought Dany but lately I have been thinking Cersei's own daughter Myrcella could be the one that the frog is talking about. Im only on chap 27, but I think that would be rather ironic if it was her.

Stay tuned per Myrcella.

DornishFroggy, on 09 June 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Margaery is the new beatiful queen to cast Cersei down. I loath them both!  But first,I want to know who took the little slut's maidenhead. I doubt is was Renly.

We still don't know if she's still a virgin or not.

[Francisco R. Fonseca]

U never thought of Myrcella, but I'm thinking Margaery or Dany is the queen in question w/Sansa as a longshot.

[MM22]

I've never thought it was Daenerys - she's too much of an obvious choice and she has not 'taken' anything 'cersei holds dear'.

Margaery and Sansa however. . .

They both had parts to play in the death of Joffrey. My personal feeling is that Sansa will be this 'younger more beautiful' 'Queen' (Queen is implied but not stated), and Arya will be the Valonqar or younger sibling.

If you interpret the prophecy as one long prophecy, it could easily mean that the Valonqar is the younger sibling of the younger more beautiful (Queen) character. Sansa and Arya taking Cersei down would have a lot of poetic justice.

I like the idea of Myrcella, and if Tommen should die, she does automatically become Queen, she is younger and has cersei's own beauty. . .

Spoiler

but as we know, she has now lost an ear and is hideously scarred. Not that her beauty couldn't shine through, but is she still more beautiful than her mother?

Also, could Myrcella actually strangle Cersei? She could use the 'strangler' poison, I guess.

Although, 'gold shall be their crowns and gold shall be their shrouds' - implies that perhaps all three of the 'royal baratheon/lannister incest' children will have golden hair or be crowned monarchs, and die (sadly in Tommen and Myrcella's cases).

[Khal Pono]

Did y'all sense a Snow White angle with Cercei's obsessive fear that she will be supplanted by a woman even "fairer" than she?

Maggie was her mirror, mirror on the wall :-)

It's kind of hard to avoid this comparison with all the Snow White movies coming out lately.

Edited by Khal Pono, 11 June 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[Khal Pono]

MM22, on 11 June 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

I've never thought it was Daenerys - she's too much of an obvious choice and she has not 'taken' anything 'cersei holds dear'.

Not yet.  But what if wen Dany finally gets around to invading Westeros (ha ha, yeah, I know), Tommen, Myrcella and/or Jaime rally to Dany's cause?

[MM22]

Khal Pono, on 11 June 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not yet.  But what if wen Dany finally gets around to invading Westeros (ha ha, yeah, I know), Tommen, Myrcella and/or Jaime rally to Dany's cause?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Targaryen Princess storm the capital and take what is 'rightfully' hers and all, but Danaerys' story is so slow, and I'm wondering if her story arc will be the one that teaches us that ' sometimes we never achieve our goals'.

That would be so sad though.

[Khal Pono]

MM22, on 11 June 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'm wondering if her story arc will be the one that teaches us that ' sometimes we never achieve our goals'.

That would be so sad though.

Yes, but it would be Martinesque and a bold artistic choice, like it was to kill Ned in the first book

Edited by Khal Pono, 11 June 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[MM22]

Khal Pono, on 11 June 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Yes, but it would be Martinesque and a bold artistic choice, like it was to kill Ned in the first book

Indeed. I think there may be something of that train of thought in her story, though I'm sure she will achieve or accomplish something else. She might free ALL the slaves and abolish slavery on her way to 'retake Westeros' but never achieve it, and be remembered as a champion of freedom or something.

However, I'm always wary that this is 'A song' of ice and fire - So I always have it in the back of my head that when Westerosi scribes write the history book about 'ASOIF/GOT' all of the POV characters must have pivotal roles to play.

So I'm expecting something more of Danaerys yet otherwise she'd just be a few lines at the end of that Westerosi history volume:

'Meanwhile in Essos. . . .'

[janedl]

Dany seems the most probable candidate, in part because Cersei doesn't know enough to be afraid of her.

But I have a candidate I think no one has mentioned yet.  There's another queen in the picture: Queen Jeyne Westerling Stark, Robb's widow.  I think it has to mean SOMETHING that she is Maggy the Frog's great-granddaughter.

I don't have anything as solid as a prediction, but IF she escaped from Riverrun (with her younger sister taking her place, as some have theorized), and joined up with the Blackfish and Lady Stoneheart and Brienne, and maybe even Jaime somehow....  I don't know where I'm going with this, but it's food for thought.

On the other hand, no one has remotely described her as more beautiful than Cersei.

[MM22]

That's a great theory - and she is technically, Deposed/Dowager Queen of the North - so she's already a Queen (though that's not a requirement of the prophecy just an implied hint).

BUT what does Cersei hold dear?

1.Herself, her regency and her power
2. Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella (and their 'right to rule')
3. Tywin and Jaime (her father/idol and her brother/lover)

Jeyne Westerling has had nothing much to do with any events in Cersei's life, and certainly is not implicated in the murder of Joffrey as Sansa and Margaery both are. Daenerys doesn't either, however she has the potential to take everything else from Cersei.

and yeah, if I remember rightly Jeyne/her appearance is referred to as 'not worth losing a kingdom for' or something along those lines, whereas Cersei (Sansa, Margaery and Dany) are always referred to as being beautiful.

It's a nice idea, and it would be an awesome (and unexpected) form of Stark revenge, but I feel that the prophecies are 'bigger' than Jeyne if that makes sense? She's not a big enough part of the overall story/events for me to think of her as fulfilling the prophecy. That's not to say it isn't possible though, and I agree that having Maggy the Frog in your ancestry has to mean something!