162 replies to this topic

[A Time for Wolves]

Reading this thread made me realize that the Reeds and Tullys have been cut out of the show entirely. Not impressed with this decision. I can see no possible justification for it. They're all important too. Are they going to produce Edmure Tully just before a certain wedding and be like, "Oh btw, this is Catelyn's brother. Say hello to the audience Edmure. Now get on a horse and ride to the wedding!"

And it makes no sense for the Reeds to catch up with Bran in Season 3, so I think they're out for good. Some problems with this:
- I got the strong impression, in the books, that Bran would not have survived his journey without the Reeds' help.
- In ADWD, it seemed to me that Jojen's eventual death was foreshadowed in a way that suggests his death will play an important role in Bran's storyline
- Bran loves Meera and wishes he could be a man for her.
- The Reeds give Bran a LOT of important background story that the reader (and the HBO audience) would otherwise have had no way of finding out. HBO will probably not include that historical information, which is fine, but Jojen also teaches Bran about his powers and I dunno where the hell Bran is going to learn that now.

[towerofjoy]

I think they are probably trying to cut down on the massive number of characters. And they seem to be steering away from prophetic visions and mystical elements in general. Leaving out the Reeds would fit both of these trends.

I tend to think Osha will lead Bran, Rickon and Hodor to the wall. Later on (in season 3) they'll meet up with Sam and Gilly at the Nightfort and then Bran and Hodor will have Coldhands lead them the rest of the way North and Osha will split off with Rickon.

Though hate to see the Reeds left out. But unless they do more episodes per seasons - or more seasons - there's no way the same level of character complexity will make it on screen.

[Padraig]

A Time for Wolves, on 05 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Are they going to produce Edmure Tully just before a certain wedding.

Presumably so, yes.  Or at the beginning of S3 to be more exact.  The Tullys have been mentioned a couple times already in the show, so they have not  been completely ignored.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were mentioned a couple more times in S2.  As Towerofjoy said, D&D had to cut the cast down a little.

Why doesn't it make sense for the Reeds to catch up with Bran?  They went to Winterfell because of Jojen's dreams.  Why not go somewhere else because of a different dream?  I presume Bran will learn most of his powers from the 3 eyed crow anyhow.

[A Time for Wolves]

Padraig, on 05 February 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Why doesn't it make sense for the Reeds to catch up with Bran?  They went to Winterfell because of Jojen's dreams.  Why not go somewhere else because of a different dream?  I presume Bran will learn most of his powers from the 3 eyed crow anyhow.

Because to do so they will have to cross the North during a time of war, whereas when the Reeds come to Winterfell in the novel, the roads are clear and safe because the entire North is united under Robb Stark. If they come to him after Bran's left Winterfell, not only are they crossing a greater distance (from the Neck to the Wall, as opposed to the Neck to Winterfell), they're also doing it when the weather is scarier (winter has come by the time Bran reaches the Wall) and when the North is no longer stable. Why would Howland Reed send them out at a time like that, instead of before when Bran actually rules Winterfell for his brother?

I don't know, maybe they could make it work, but I'm guessing that if the Reeds haven't been introduced in S2, they won't be introduced in S3.

[Padraig]

A Time for Wolves, on 05 February 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Why would Howland Reed send them out at a time like that, instead of before when Bran actually rules Winterfell for his brother?

If Jojen didn't have his dream until later on then Howland would have no reason to send him out earlier.   I'm not saying that they have to meet Bran near the Wall.  It could be 2 kms from Winterfell if need be, so no greater distance walked.

While the danger is a fair point, Jojen doesn't seem to be the kind of character that will be forced to stay at home because of the danger.  (And if he was aware of the first dream, its clear that Howland Reed must not known that he was sending his children into danger).  The weather is immaterial since they walked to the Wall during the same weather in the books.

It is possible that the Reeds wouldn't be in S3 but there is a clear plot hole that needs to be filled, if so.  Its easy to avoid plot holes in S2 though, even with their absence.

[Ramsay's Third Nipple]

The Reeds have to be in the show. They're an integral part of the story. Bran wouldn't know **** without Jojen. I mean, Hodor is fine and all, but he's not exactly great at telling stories like Jojen is, and how would he even lead Bran.

I simply can't believe in an adaption that doesn't have the Reeds.

[Padraig]

Ramsay, on 08 February 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

They're an integral part of the story. Bran wouldn't know **** without Jojen.

Initially.  But he does meet a significant person in aDwD.

[Erykion Skyblade]

Padraig, on 09 February 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Initially.  But he does meet a significant person in aDwD.

Which will take three more seasons at least, during which time Bran will be off in the wild, with no one to tell him anything, except possibly Osha. The Reeds are able to fill him in on far more information, including the Tournament at Harrenhal, which will make Bran's journey far more interesting.

I feel almost that, without the Reeds, Bran's plotline after season 2 might as well be cut entirely. It will take a long time to pay off as it is.

[GoodGuyA]

My thought on this would be that it could be possible to introduce them in Season 3, even after the Sacking. The thing is that the characters merely need to be present, and why not do such in a way that emphasizes their mystical traits? they could meet off in the woods and Bran s telling everyone to head North, with suddenly the children coming in and explaining their purpose there. Would give them a bit more of a strong personality as well as label Howland Reed as a strange figure.

Spoiler

You would, presumably, need them for only one season too.

[Erykion Skyblade]

^That would probably be the best way to make the plot work without having to introduce the Reeds in Season 2. Having them appear right after the Sack of Winterfell could still make sense: if they managed to travel north of the Neck before the Ironmen arrive, but don't make it to Winterfell until it's too late, there would be no problem. Introduce them too late and it would've been quite unlikely for them to have been able to travel so far safely. Though I'm not sure about the timeline.

The only issue is how Bran would be able to trust them? Jojen and Meera clearly prove themselves in the book. Having those two randomly show up later would complicate things.

Not to mention the fact that it gives Bran very little to do next season. Aside from his brief stint as Lord of Winterfell, his interaction with Jojen and Meera and the situation with Theon, does anything important happen to Bran in the book?

[Padraig]

Erykion Skyblade, on 11 February 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Not to mention the fact that it gives Bran very little to do next season. Aside from his brief stint as Lord of Winterfell, his interaction with Jojen and Meera and the situation with Theon, does anything important happen to Bran in the book?

He doesn't do much in S1 either.  The TV series will focus more on some characters and some will lose out.  We'll see Bran as he hears about what is going on with Robb in S2.  We'll see the return of Rodrik Cassell.  And his big scenes will happen when Theon enters the picture.

As for Bran trusting the Reeds.  He knows they are the children of his father's friend.  But moreover, if they knew where he was after the Sack and they didn't betray him, well that says something positive doesn't it?  He could learn to trust them more during the rest of S3.

I don't think the Rees would have any problem avoiding the Ironborn near the Neck anyhow.  This is their land after all.

[Jack Sparrow]

Erykion Skyblade, on 11 February 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Not to mention the fact that it gives Bran very little to do next season. Aside from his brief stint as Lord of Winterfell, his interaction with Jojen and Meera and the situation with Theon, does anything important happen to Bran in the book?

If the Reeds were cut, which they likely were, it was probably in part because the producers didn't want to spend time on Bran's storyline, outside of where it intersects with Theon.  It's pretty clear after watching season one that they don't have all the time in the world (not that people didn't know that already, but it's even clearer now).  If you're going to cut characters, you're probably going to cut them at the locations/storylines you plan to show the least.  It's probably a bit of a waste to cast the Reeds to only show them a minute or two here or there.  As people have suggested, the producers could have them meet Bran right after the sack of Winterfell, but I think that they are going to consistently want to minimize Bran's story so adding the Reeds in next season may not be what they want, either.

[Arkash]

What about Ramsay too ?

[ldygrffn]

As far as the danger to the Reeds in crossing the North, are we forgetting that the Crannogmen in general are pretty good at hiding. Up to the point where Jojen and Meera show up, it is implied in the books that nobody has seen any trace of their folk in a very long time. I understand that they know the Neck and would be way better at hiding out there, but wouldn't the same hiding skills help them elsewhere?

I don't want them to go, as a matter of fact, it would upset me greatly, but introducing them in S3 is not unrealistic if your only problem is explaining how they traveled the North in war and winter.

[the goat]

SPOILERS








Reeds, Reek & the burning of Winterfell will happen in S3

[The Bastard of Walton]

Does anyone know if they really have cut Ramsey? I've heard the Reeds are gone, but no news on the bastard.

[Jack Sparrow]

The Bastard of Walton, on 08 March 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Does anyone know if they really have cut Ramsey?

Yes; they've replaced him with a male whore named Bos.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Jack Sparrow, on 08 March 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Yes; they've replaced him with a male whore named Bos.

Your joking right?

[Myrddin]

A Time for Wolves, on 05 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Are they going to produce Edmure Tully just before a certain wedding and be like, "Oh btw, this is Catelyn's brother. Say hello to the audience Edmure. Now get on a horse and ride to the wedding!"

In all honesty, the any of Robb's lordly followers can stand in as the groom.

As much as I love the Tully's and the Reeds, I don't think they are going to be in the show, and I think that's ok. Their roles can be served by others without too much effort.

[Aegnor]

the goat, on 07 March 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

SPOILERS








Reeds, Reek & the burning of Winterfell will happen in S3

You say this like you are certain.  I interpreted the original post is that the final scene in season 2 would match the final scene in book 2.  If that is the case, Reeds and Reek are gone.  Unless they don't show up until after the sack of Winterfell...which I find unlikely.