87 replies to this topic

[master]

I was rereading a bran chapter in adwd and i realised it was possible that cold hands could be benjen stark. A ranger of the nights watch lost behind the wall.

[Lummel]

I doubt it. As the pages turn it seems less and less likely that coldhands is Benjen. Bran doesn't recognise him as his uncle, I know the bottom half of Coldhands' face is covered but Bran doesn't seem to find his figure, forehead, nose or voice even slightly familiar in a family way and Coldhands says that he has been dead for a long time.

The Wall has been there for a long time too and I doubt Benjen was the only ranger never to return to it from a ranging.

[GhostofWinterfell]

Should probably change the title of your thread so as not to give anything away for those still reading.

[Unhit]

Maybe it's Varamyr's former master warging (whichever) former ranger of the Watch.

[master]

'Should probably change the title of your thread so as not to give anything away for those still reading. '

how?

[Completely Headless Ned]

Lummel, on 05 January 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I doubt it. As the pages turn it seems less and less likely that coldhands is Benjen. Bran doesn't recognise him as his uncle, I know the bottom half of Coldhands' face is covered but Bran doesn't seem to find his figure, forehead, nose or voice even slightly familiar in a family way and Coldhands says that he has been dead for a long time.

The Wall has been there for a long time too and I doubt Benjen was the only ranger never to return to it from a ranging.

Lummel, on 05 January 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I doubt it. As the pages turn it seems less and less likely that coldhands is Benjen. Bran doesn't recognise him as his uncle, I know the bottom half of Coldhands' face is covered but Bran doesn't seem to find his figure, forehead, nose or voice even slightly familiar in a family way and Coldhands says that he has been dead for a long time.

The Wall has been there for a long time too and I doubt Benjen was the only ranger never to return to it from a ranging.

How many times has Bran seen him though. But I geuss he would see a resembelence to his dad.

[Fire and Blood25]

I'm pretty sure you're not the very first preson to understand that

[DragonSpawn]

You may be right - but no one can say for sure - you would have thought Bran might have recognised his clothes or his sword or something that would give him away as Benjen...

Real question is why was he not found with his brothers in the snow?

The logical possibilities are:

• He was saved by the CotF to help Bloodraven (and is therefore Coldhands)
  
• He escaped the WW, alive... and found the CotF - who sacraficed him...
  
• It was wildlings who killed them - and Benjen was taken away to be eaten or killed. His less valuable brothers were just left in the snow to turn
  
• He escaped the others but pissed his pants and deserted
  
• He became a WW before his brothers and buggered off before they were found - and is now roaming around with the rest of them - it's just no1 has seen him yet and lived to speak of it...
  
• His body was eaten before it could change
  
• He has special blood so became a "wight" (one of the less Zombie-like creatures)... and is holding back like a general or commander... so no1 has seen him yet
  
• He fell in love with a female WW and is the Night King come again... also could be... (see below)
  
• He is the Great Other and has been trying to kill off his family so he can inherit Winterfell
  
• He fell in love with a Wildling girl and they ran away together to live happily ever after

Guess we will have to wait and see....

Edited by DragonSpawn, 05 January 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[Arya Targaryen]

According to the Starks+Others= Kings of Winter thread, it is possible, that WWs do not attack Starks, because they are kins. Just as they do not attack the Old Bear, Quorin, Mance, etc, while Jon is with them.
Also possible, that Starks do have some extra ability to avoid/escape WW-s. The Starks are strong beyond the Wall. He might have found the Children, left the dragonglass at the Fist, and somehow went to the crypts of Winterfell after Bran and Rickon left, because there always must be a Stark in Wf. He may be the hooded man.
However, I doubt he is CH, because he wouldnt know of the Gate at the NF. Unless tipped off by Bloodraven.

[Ser Lepus]

DragonSpawn, on 05 January 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

• He fell in love with a Wildling girl and they ran away together to live happily ever after

I vote for that. And to make it even better, I want him to escape to the Free Cities, become a sucessful sellsword serving Braavos and have a dozen healthy children.
That would be a nice subversion of the "The Starks are Honorable Beyond Reason" trope.

[Maginor]

I don't think Benjen was taken by wildlings. They knew how important he was as the first ranger of the watch, so even if they couldn't take him alive, I think Mance would have known about it, or at least that word would have got around and Jon would have heard about it in some way. He could just have been killed by an other or frozen to death somewhere, and is now covered in snow so that nobody have seen him, or he is a wight that nobody who would recognize him have seen. He did know of the importance of the dragonglass (if indeed it was him who left it for Jon. If it wasn't, it had to be somebody from his party, since they were the only Nights Watch patrol in that area and since it hadn't been buried for long. Assuming of course that those who buried the stash didn't put a black cloack there just to troll Jon), so I think he had contact with the children at some point. This does not explain why he had to bury the stash. Maybe he was overtaken by the others. At least, I think he was in danger, or he would just have brought it back to the wall himself. So in any case, I think he is dead.

Edited by Maginor, 05 January 2012 - 01:38 PM.

[Spinebreaker]

I think Coldhands, (whoever he may be) has been saved by the power of heart-tree's. I think he, as a worshipper of the old gods, said his Night's Watch Vow in front of a Heart-Tree, and now, he's simply not able to die.

I think this is possibly the key to

Spoiler

Jon's ressurection

. There's a reason we've been privy to the Night's Watch vow twice in such circumstances, and we know all the characters involved.

[Spinebreaker]

I shall live and die at my post...

[The Raven's Teeth]

It is unlikely I think, spoilers:-

Spoiler

Didn't one of the Children of the Forest say to Bran & Co that the wights killed Coldhands 'long ago'.

Which to a race that live as long as the Children, wouldn't be two/three years.

Edited by The Raven's Teeth, 05 January 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[ManyFacedOne]

The Raven, on 05 January 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

It is unlikely I think, spoilers:-

Spoiler

Didn't one of the Children of the Forest say to Bran & Co that the wights killed Coldhands 'long ago'.

Which to a race that live as long as the Children, wouldn't be two/three years.

Yes they did. They could've just been speaking generally though. Two or three years seem a long time to be walking around dead. I still it's Benjen, or Stonesnake - though he wouldn't have been dead nearly as long.

[The Raven's Teeth]

ManyFacedOne, on 05 January 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes they did. They could've just been speaking generally though. Two or three years seem a long time to be walking around dead. I still it's Benjen, or Stonesnake - though he wouldn't have been dead nearly as long.

It's possible that they were speaking generally, or that they were speaking as though from a human/child's POV. But I don't think so, I think that they &

Spoiler

Bloodraven/Three-Eyed-Crow

have been very deliberate in what they have said to Bran.

[The Shadowbinder]

I think the CotF would keep time relative to humans when talking to Bran, otherwise saying "a moment" would mean hours right - Sounds confusing.

I agree that Coldhands could be Benjen... IIRC Coldhands deliberately hides his face from Bran, and his shape could have changed when he was killed (eg. being crushed) or resurrected.

[SweetRobin4Life]

I feel like Benjen is definatly alive though, just not sure where. In the appendix of each book Ben's listed as presumed dead. If he was Coldhands it should say "(Benjen Stark) dead on a ranging" instead of "Benjen Stark - presumed dead.

[Serie]

SweetRobin4Life, on 05 January 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I feel like Benjen is definatly alive though, just not sure where. In the appendix of each book Ben's listed as presumed dead. If he was Coldhands it should say "(Benjen Stark) dead on a ranging" instead of "Benjen Stark - presumed dead.

no, I don't think GRRM would spoil it that way
(I secretly believe Benjen is coldhands! )

[Lady Greeneyes]

Thought the same today as I re-read that chapter today. But is he a wight- or somehow was he saved? He does not seem malicious and his fate was tied to Bran's. He quite possibly is Benjen Stark.