264 replies to this topic

[Jamie Lannister]

UnGregor vs a perfectly fine Loras Tyrell.

It is known.

[Bugger that]

DurararaFTW, on 07 January 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

If Ser Robert Strong loses, Cersei is found guilty, Tommen is no longer King and Margeary is no longer Queen. No way Loras and or Garlan is plotting against their sister and father.

Oh, I forgot what the trial is about exactly, the supposed incest and what else? The murder of Robert?

[thetitansbastard]

My interpretation was that the trial was set for just a couple days after the end of ADWD, which I think puts a damper on Brienne or Sandor's chances.  Brienne is likely a BwB, and IMO Sandor would be overkill.  Same with "unsyrio"... I don't know, I guess my pick is Loras by default as right now.

Bugger that, on 07 January 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Oh, I forgot what the trial is about exactly, the supposed incest and what else? The murder of Robert?

Not sure about Robert, but inscest/fornications and the conspiracy to frame Margery for sure

Edited by thetitansbastard, 07 January 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[LOBROD]

Would like to see Cersais face when Drogon landed to face un gregor

[The Kingmaker]

It will be a trial by Faith, so Robert Strong's opponent must be a sparrow. Probably he will face Lancel and smash his head.

[LOBROD]

hard to come up with a resonable idea of who could face un gregor.
sandor v gregor would be sweet but logistically and with his injury dont see it happening
unless something explodes the Tyrell/ Laninster alliance i dont see either GArlan or Loras being able to face ungregor. (I dont believe Loras is as badly injuries as the Tyrells would have Cersai believe).    would like either of their chances though, both excellent fighters.

what a great topic!

i can see Lancel insisting on being the faiths champion in an attempt to further atone for his sins- along with attempting to get Cersai to atone for evils.

would be a quick fight though, will prob take ungregor longer to peel bits of Lancel brain off the boot he squishes him with.

[Negator]

It will be Sandor, and he will use fire to kill the beast, completing his own story arc by redeeming himself of his two curses:  Gregor and fire.

[Ser Vaunt]

Robert Strong is Syrio Forel's head sewn onto Gregor Clegane's body. He refuses to speak so he won't give himself away by his Braavosi accent.

[jarl the climber]

I think Osney Kettleback would have to face Ser Robert because he is her accuser in the assanation of the High Septon.If Lancel accusers her of incest he might have to fight him too but I don't think the faith will accuse her of that because it would threaten Tommens claim.Margery is actually choosing a trial by the 7 if she loses and she could if the sand snakes interfere in the trial.Then Ser Loras might have to face Ser Robert.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

IMO Bronn is out, because he already refused to take on Gregor Clegane.  He has his castle and his somewhat dubious title; there is nothing that the Faith could/will offer him that would make him risk everything.

Maybe I am oversimplifying, but to me, figuring out who it will be is fairly simple.  In order to be willing to face Robert Strong, a combatant will have to meet one of two criteria:

1.  They will have to believe they have some measure of a chance at defeating him straight-out; or
2.  They have to be religious enough (and sure enough of Cersei's guilt) to believe that the gods will grant them victory despite Strong's size and unknown, but presumably more than competant, fighting prowess.

IMO, there is only one person who fits into either of these categories.  

Regarding the first, there are/were only a few knights or fighters in the realm who would have been cocky and/or good enough to defeat Strong's size and strength.  Oberyn, dead.  Jaime, maimed.  Loras, does not want Cersei found guilty.  Perhaps Renly would have been fool enough to try to avenge his brother, but dead.  The Kettleblacks, IIRC they cannot participate because of the conflict of interest, and besides that, if they win (and Cersei is found guilty) then that condemns their brother as well. Brienne, long gone and far away.  Sandor - will get to him in a moment.

Regarding the second category, *maybe* you could say Sandor.  He seems to have had a conversion of some sort, and even if he is not really all that devout, he could probably lie well enough about it to be named the Faith's champion.  Just because he was limping and far away during a previous Brienne chapter, IMO does not automatically mean he could not have healed sufficiently (or been faking the extent) and traveled far enough by now to take on Strong.  The reasons I do not believe it will be Sandor: no one knows that RS is UnGregor (we don't even know), so Sandor does not know.  There may be suspicions among the people who have seen RS, but I don't feel like suspicion and gossip would be enough to send Sandor trekking across the kingdom on a potential suicide mission.  

And somehow, this just does not feel "right" to me.  If there is going to be a reveal of the New and Improved Sandor, I don't see this being the way.  And if there is going to be a reckoning between the brothers, then it seems rather anticlimactic to have it occur in conjunction with Sandor's re-reveal, only a few chapters (at most) into the next book, and abruptly ending in one of them dying.  I think we will see Sandor again and there will be a reckoning, but not like this.

Soooo, the person I believe it will be, who definitely meets at least one (and possibly both, given his general stupidity) of the criteria above, is Lancel.  Lancel alone is 100% certain of Cersei's guilt, because he participated with her in some of the crimes she is accused of.  And he has become more than enough of a true believer to just KNOW that the gods will grant him victory no matter who he fights, because his is the side of the righteous.  

I think the biggest thing you have to look at is motivation to fight RS.  No one sane in the Seven Kingdoms can be bribed, forced or talked into facing him, because there is no way to enjoy bribes when you are dead (and telling a large criminal from the dungeons "fight this man who will certainly kill you, or you will be executed" is not exactly inducement to fight).  No one in power wants Cersei found guilty, because all their power rests on Tommen's legitimacy being upheld.  So motivation wise, you need a religious fanatic with certain knowledge of Cersei's guilt, whom the Faith will accept as worthy to be their champion; and if the guy has a bit of a bone to pick with Cersei, so much the better.  Lancel is the only one who fits on every count.

ETA:  UNLESS, there is some new character introduced that none of us even knows about yet, which is always possible in GRRM Land.

Edited by LadyoftheNorth72, 07 January 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[LOBROD]

[Silverin]

1. The trial will be for Cersei's honor, not for the Tyrells. Margaery choose trial by Seven and Cersei choose trial by combat.
2. If I remember correcctly Cersei has to choose a champion for herself, one of the KGs, that is Robert Strong, but wouldn't the opponent be a member of the Faith Millitia, since it is the Faith that challanges her? I am not even sure Loras would be allowed as a KG to fight AGAINST the Queens honor.

I mean so far in the trial by combats:
1.tyrion vs Lysa : one of Lysa's knight vy Bronn who tyrion paid for
2. tyrion vs the murder of Joff: the KG vs Oberyn tyrion's champion
3. Sandor vs the BwB: Dondarrion vs Sandor
In every situations the one who fights in the name of the accuser is either him or one of his men. Since in this case the accuser is the Faith, i think whoever will fight against Gregor will be part of the Faith Millitia.

Because of that since I too think the trial will come quickly after the epilouge, I have two candidates. Lancel and Sandor.
Sandor: his fate is still blurry, we know he is most probably alive and works as a gravdigger but would they appoint him as a FM to face of Robert Strong? I don't think his existence is that well known for example to the HS yet, not to mention he seems to be in a kinda isolated place. I do think he will eventually face RS but I don't think it will be at the comming up trial. I think he will meet him, just not right away.
Lancel: Cersei did mention that she will remember that he told the HS about their relationships, and he told that she had a hand in Roberts death as well right? So I do think Cersei will want him dead. That is why he is my strongest guess.

Edited by Silverin, 07 January 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[BlackWaterSurvivor]

Silverin,
i see your point about loras, i guess i just want to see loras in this kind of situation given his supposed prowess. so far we have seen him unhorse gregor, which is kind of false as the trick with the mare in heat did most of the work in that bout! but other than that we have seen little of him in a battle situation. i feel he supposed to kill someone important, but who?

as for sandor, i really hope his thread in this series has ended. given that he disgraced himself in battle and recently found god as it were, i think his story in this should end. Got kind of a disliking for him after he rode down the butchers boy (forget his name and really hope im remembering that correctly).

[jarl the climber]

My impression from AFFC is that if Osney had acussed Margery and the faith had not tortured him and got the truth out of him he,as the accuser,would have to fight or name a champion against Margerys champion who has to be a Kingsguard by law.So I guess it would be up to Osney to fight or name a champion.Why would anybody help him?I think that since he admitted killing the High Septon he will be executed anyway, he just wont go to hell because he admitted his crimes. The other 2 Kettleback were arrested by Ser Kevan and are facing charges for fornicating with the queen.They must face Ser Robert or take the black.

[The King in the South]

If it's Sandor I will be incredibly pissed off. If he's still alive I want him to remain a monk, not suddenly come back and disrupt the story.

[Silverin]

BlackWaterSurvivor, on 07 January 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Silverin,
i see your point about loras, i guess i just want to see loras in this kind of situation given his supposed prowess. so far we have seen him unhorse gregor, which is kind of false as the trick with the mare in heat did most of the work in that bout! but other than that we have seen little of him in a battle situation. i feel he supposed to kill someone important, but who?

as for sandor, i really hope his thread in this series has ended. given that he disgraced himself in battle and recently found god as it were, i think his story in this should end. Got kind of a disliking for him after he rode down the butchers boy (forget his name and really hope im remembering that correctly).

I want to see more of Loras as well, but I don't think he will face Robert Strong at that trial. It could still be he will fight him at a differetnt time though.
I doubt RS will die at the very first fight he participates.

[Jamie Lannister]

The King in the South, on 07 January 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

If it's Sandor I will be incredibly pissed off. If he's still alive I want him to remain a monk, not suddenly come back and disrupt the story.

Him coming back would more of an "epic twist subtly seeded" to me, rather than a "disruption of the story."

And monks do follow the Faith, you know...

[The King in the South]

Jamie Lannister, on 07 January 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Him coming back would more of an "epic twist subtly seeded" to me, rather than a "disruption of the story."

And monks do follow the Faith, you know...

Yes but the whole point of the Elder's Brother speech was that the "Hound" is dead, i.e. the murderous tortured brute who hates his brother.

Also, isn't he supposed to be partially crippled or something.

[thetitansbastard]

LOBROD, on 07 January 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

unless something explodes the Tyrell/ Laninster alliance i dont see either GArlan or Loras being able to face ungregor. (I dont believe Loras is as badly injuries as the Tyrells would have Cersai believe). would like either of their chances though, both excellent fighters.

Tyrell/lannister alliance if there ever was one is clearly no more - those two houses are pretty much going to be at war now

LadyoftheNorth72, on 07 January 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

I think the biggest thing you have to look at is motivation to fight RS.  No one sane in the Seven Kingdoms can be bribed, forced or talked into facing him, because there is no way to enjoy bribes when you are dead

I think that Cersei and Qyburn are inept idiots, I'm not convinced Ser Robert is unbeatable by any means

[BlackWaterSurvivor]

jarl the climber, on 07 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I think Osney Kettleback would have to face Ser Robert because he is her accuser in the assanation of the High Septon.If Lancel accusers her of incest he might have to fight him too but I don't think the faith will accuse her of that because it would threaten Tommens claim.Margery is actually choosing a trial by the 7 if she loses and she could if the sand snakes interfere in the trial.Then Ser Loras might have to face Ser Robert.

surely if you choose trial by 7 and lose you dont get to have a trial by combat too? i mean what would be the point? as i understood the process you choose how you want to be tried and face the consequences. surely you cant lose and then say 'uhh, actually ive changed my mind...'

The King in the South, on 07 January 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yes but the whole point of the Elder's Brother speech was that the "Hound" is dead, i.e. the murderous tortured brute who hates his brother.

Also, isn't he supposed to be partially crippled or something.

i hope your right, i dont like the hound at all. i actually think he is as bad as his brother and the one redeeming part of him is his new found monkhood!

Titan, i agree that RS is not unbeatable, gregor certainly wasnt, oberyn showed that! its just tactical.

Edited by BlackWaterSurvivor, 07 January 2012 - 06:27 PM.