70 replies to this topic

[JonTargStark]

I'm confused, I thought sandor was dead, Hound who appeared at the end when Brienne was captured by unCat, was some dude who was wearing Sandor's helm?

[Val the Wildling Princess]

He's very alive for me, he's probably the big man that is a grave digger at the Quiet Island. When Brienne, Pod and the others were there Sandor's horse was there too.

[headtrip_honey]

The Hound is dead, Sandor Clegane is at peace, digging graves on the Quiet Isle.

(null)

[JonTargStark]

hmm......that sounds...i don't know....i thought Horse got lost after the owner was dead and ended up there...

[Ser Vaunt]

JonTargStark, on 07 January 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

I'm confused, I thought sandor was dead, Hound who appeared at the end when Brienne was captured by unCat, was some dude who was wearing Sandor's helm?

Right, Rorge took the Hound's helm, and then Lemoncloak took it.

But it's implied the gravedigger at the Quiet Isle is Sandor.
Whether or not this will be confirmed and Sandor will have a place yet in the story remains to be seen.

[DaughterOfThe9Moons]

If you re-read the chapter where Brienne is on the Quiet Isle with Pod and Ser Hyle and she is talking to the elder brother I think you'll understand why people think the Hound is still alive. There are lots of little hints in that chapter that point to him being the gravedigger.

1. The elder brother never says Sandor is dead. He says the Hound is dead, Sandor is at rest.
2. The elder brother knows WAY too much about Sandor and his personal issues for a quick death bed confessional.
3. The elder brother speaks of his past life as a soldier and states that he died and was reborn on the Quiet Isle. (Making people think that Sandor's death is metaphorical too)
4. The elder brother is said to have healing powers that are little short of miraculous. (Sandor was pretty badly wounded when Arya left him and seemingly about to die.)
5. Stranger, Sandor's horse is in the stables. Remember Arya says that Stranger is vicious if Sandor isn't around. How did the elder brother get Stranger to the QI without Sandor?
6. Brienne notes the grave digger is bigger than her (and she's pretty big), walks with a limp (remember his thigh wound) and pats the dog (Sandor loves dogs)

Probably missed a few but I'm sure someone will add to the list

[JonTargStark]

ahhhhhhh put it that way....that makes a LOT of sense....

that's why people are bringing up Sandor vs UnGregor.....

make sense...mm hm....

[DaughterOfThe9Moons]

JonTargStark, on 07 January 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

hmm......that sounds...i don't know....i thought Horse got lost after the owner was dead and ended up there...

The QI is an island and remember when Septon Meribald took Brienne, Pod and Ser Hyle there they had to make their way there on a very specific path, constantly doubling back to avoid quicksand etc. I don't think Stranger got there by accident. Plus the elder brother tells Brienne he found Sandor by the trident, I am sure Stranger would have been there. He could have led Stranger back there when Sandor died.... assuming the warhorse would let anybody near him! (I think not)

[Long Night Survivor]

Amazing what people catch when they're so dedicated. Did not see those and I thought the Hound was dead, but hey only read through the series once.

[Machinist]

so many bad threads recently about stuff stated in the book that are obvious if someone just read the book properly.... like this one

[Damar]

The implying in the chapter was so dense that I almost believe Sandor is truelly dead just to mess with the fans.

[Lady Candace]

Machinist, on 07 January 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

,
so many bad threads recently about stuff stated in the book that are obvious if someone just read the book properly.... like this one

If you don't like it, don't post in them and don't read them. Seems obvious, doesn't it?

[Moshtradamus]

Machinist, on 07 January 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

so many bad threads recently about stuff stated in the book that are obvious if someone just read the book properly.... like this one

no reason to be rude, really. maybe not everyone picks up on things and reads as deep as you do.

[DaughterOfThe9Moons]

Damar, on 07 January 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

The implying in the chapter was so dense that I almost believe Sandor is truelly dead just to mess with the fans.

I sometimes think the same thing myself but when I think about it, the average reader probably doesn't notice most of the hints because, though I've laid them all out pretty clearly in my post above, they're far more subtle when hidden in the text along with so much other information. A lot of the hints I picked up from reading the forums and not on my first read through.

TBH I think that George has been setting Sandor up for an important role since early in AGOT. ("Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it." anyone?) We know a lot more about him than we do about almost every other POV character (bar perhaps Littlefinger? Correct me if I'm wrong) which I think is telling. Why bother building him up so much just for him to die without resolving the main parts of his story arc? His relationships with Gregor and Sansa. I also think that he was beginning to redeem himself when he was asking Arya for the gift of mercy. It's my opinion that he was expressing regret when he spoke of killing Mycah and taking a song from Sansa. I am not sure that he was truly sorry about the Mycah thing (to the extent of acknowledging Mycah as a person), perhaps more that he regretted killing a young boy on Joffrey's say so. There are counter arguments for most every argument I have made as the topic is so ambiguous as to be endlessly debatable. We just won't know unless he shows up again.

However... the death was offscreen and we all know what that means people!

[Lady Candace]

DaughterOfThe9Moons, on 07 January 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

I sometimes think the same thing myself but when I think about it, the average reader probably doesn't notice most of the hints because, though I've laid them all out pretty clearly in my post above, they're far more subtle when hidden in the text along with so much other information. A lot of the hints I picked up from reading the forums and not on my first read through.

TBH I think that George has been setting Sandor up for an important role since early in AGOT. ("Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it." anyone?) We know a lot more about him than we do about almost every other POV character (bar perhaps Littlefinger? Correct me if I'm wrong) which I think is telling. Why bother building him up so much just for him to die without resolving the main parts of his story arc? His relationships with Gregor and Sansa. I also think that he was beginning to redeem himself when he was asking Arya for the gift of mercy. It's my opinion that he was expressing regret when he spoke of killing Mycah and taking a song from Sansa. I am not sure that he was truly sorry about the Mycah thing (to the extent of acknowledging Mycah as a person), perhaps more that he regretted killing a young boy on Joffrey's say so. There are counter arguments for most every argument I have made as the topic is so ambiguous as to be endlessly debatable. We just won't know unless he shows up again.

However... the death was offscreen and we all know what that means people!

Yup. I mean Davos is still kicking. xD

Also, I agree. There have been subtle things that seem to point to Sandor Clegane as a long-range character, and important character upon minor characters. I think we may just see him again.

[thetitansbastard]

ahh. I just think he's already played a big enough role for how deep of a character he was.  Littlefinger, varys, robb, joffrey, stannis, tywin, ramsay, manse, aegon are all more interesting too me

[Lady Candace]

It's perfectly legitimate to favor other characters. We're just saying there's a possibility we may see Sandor again based on what the text seems to imply. That's all.

[clover]

Is he dead?

I hope to hell not.

For Sansa's sake. And frankly, there has been too much investment over three books between these two  characters for it to amount to er, nothing in the end.

For who else is there that can somehow give Sansa sort of what she wants romantically?

He has been brave, loyal, caring, protective towards her, ok, amongst other things, loves her for herself and loves what he thinks are her shortcomings, although he violently protests, curses something awful, and is pretty bad at trying to pretend he isn't in to her.

Er, he can work on that.

Really, who else is there? There are only two proposed books left. And his appearance and downright uncouth manners are not a big deal. Martin showed us that. She is fantasizing about him. We've been shown that it is possible for her to be attracted to him.

So who is going to take Sandor's place as far as Sansa and a man? She starts off as the dreamy and romantic character and I feel that, yeah, she will get wiser and more street smart, but if she ends the series being crusty and bitter, than what the hell was the purpose? If she grows bitter in the next book, where can her arc really go after that?

Is it really possible with two books left to introduce another male character, from seemingly out of nowhere, even if they were mentioned by family name, or in passing through the series, and they will be her prince charming and sweep her off her feet, and care for her more than Sandor.

Unlikely? My gut tells me yes.

Edited by clover, 07 January 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[little_horn]

My actual reaction when I first read the BBB scene was "he loves her!!!" I was very happy and also sad.

[littlespider]

We'll see him again, of course, and he's tied up in quite a lot (not just Sansa). To put it in perspective, the #s thread put him at #21 as far as number of mentions:

http://asoiaf.wester...ns/page__st__40

As you can see, the only non-pov characters who outrank him are Tywin Lannister, Robert and Stannis B., Littlefinger, Joffrey, and Robb. Those are some heavy hitters. The only dead characters who outrank him (Tywin, Robert, Joffrey, Rob, Ned) went out with serious turmoil and/or fanfare. It strikes me as remarkable that Martin would invest in a character like this and not cash out on it. A lot of the investment is in off-hand mentions, as various characters remember him, mention him, tell stories about him, or whatever, in addition to his actual stage time. Martin's doing this for a reason: to keep the character in the reader's mind. We're not supposed to forget about him. So I'd be seriously surprised if he were not to figure into the story in a significant way in the future.

little_horn, on 07 January 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

My actual reaction when I first read the BBB scene was "he loves her!!!" I was very happy and also sad.

Hmm. My reaction when I first read it was "I can't believe it. Martin fucking went there. I just read the rape of a twelve year old kid." That didn't happen, of course, but the scene reeks to high heaven of sexual violence.

Edited by littlespider, 07 January 2012 - 08:12 PM.