Roose Seal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Maybe Euron sacrificed some of his own sons for the FM, he doesn't seem to think to much of them...IIRC he compares their worth to his own feces.Which is why they can't be the price he paid. It he doesn't give a shit about them, giving them away would cost him nothing.We don't know what Euron cares about, except himself, so it's hard to venture a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Maybe slightly off topic ... what do you guys think why Euron made mutes out of all his crew? I don't recall the why is ever described in the novels.To me it seems it would be nice if someone was able to cry: "Iceberg ahead" or something like that.Just tired of blabbering? Wants no stories out where he has been - or not has been?Wex is mute and if I recall correctly was given to Theon by Euron? If there is some clash ahead between the Manderley ships and Euron Wex could be a nice source of information :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Good points.I wonder why the crow is drowned and has seaweed on it's wings. Is it foreshadowing or what?Clear differentiation from the NW who could be easily misconstrued as the crow, GRRM is just trying to make it plain it's Euron.Something that bothers me a little about the "Euron hired a faceless man to kill Balon" theory (although most of it makes sense) is that it seems a little "too" convenient that Euron is the prime suspect because he comes back to Pyke just one day after Balon's death...surely everyone would think that would be too big of a coincidenceThat's the point though, it is obvious, and he does it anyway because he's Euron Greyjoy. Victarion is a dumb ass and Euron is far too sly for him, Damphair is an old fogey priest no-one likes whilst a wink and smile from Euron and everybody is onboard, and Asha is a woman and not of any consequence, if need be he probably thinks he could seduce his niece. The guy slept with his brother's wife, and when found out and punished into exile looked at it as an opportunity to sail the world and places no-one else dared, accumulating great treasures and wealth in the process. He's asoiaf's Marc Antony, making his reappearance to claim the throne before Balon is even cold is exactly his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmarien Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It seems the thing Euron values most is his power. So I don't know why the FM wouldn't require him to sacrifice himself to their service? Something is weird about him; I hope GRRM reveals more in the next two books.ETA: Maybe he had two (or multiple) dragon horns, and gave one to the FM - since they hate Dragonlords? Wild guessing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadowbinder Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Which is why they can't be the price he paid. It he doesn't give a shit about them, giving them away would cost him nothing.We don't know what Euron cares about, except himself, so it's hard to venture a guess.Do the FM know that? I know they can change their faces and have superhero like awareness of thier surroundings... But can they also read minds and know your most beloved possessions as well? Eurons a clever guy, I wouldn't put it past him to try and deceive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Do the FM know that? I know they can change their faces and have superhero like awareness of thier surroundings... But can they also read minds and know your most beloved possessions as well? Eurons a clever guy, I wouldn't put it past him to try and deceive them.They can't read minds and stuff but the one thing they are are experts at is detecting lies. I don't think you can play them false at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 We don't know what Euron cares about, except himself, so it's hard to venture a guess.Yeah, I'm quite sure the FM themselves didnt know what to ask of him as a payment, that's why he managed easily to hire one!But yeah, Euron is one of the character I am most interested about right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojji Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Maybe Euron has a FM under his thumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im no Ser Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Maybe slightly off topic ... what do you guys think why Euron made mutes out of all his crew?They can't tell his secrets, and he has a lot.It seems the thing Euron values most is his power. So I don't know why the FM wouldn't require him to sacrifice himself to their service? Something is weird about him; I hope GRRM reveals more in the next two books.ETA: Maybe he had two (or multiple) dragon horns, and gave one to the FM - since they hate Dragonlords? Wild guessing here.I think you've nailed it. He's agreed to serve. I don't think he's an FM, but as a major player in what is developing as a magical semi-apokolypse he is in a good position to help the FM shape events. The FM's seem to have big picture goals - they were probably behind the Doom of Valyria - and maybe Euron can help them achieve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tze Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 What did Euron pay the FM with then? The waif's father paid with a daughter and most of his wealth but Euron shows up in Pyke with a massive longship full of plunder, including ridiculously rare and valuable things like the dragon horn and thewarlock drink. What did he have that was worth more than all that?In AFFC, Euron told Victarion that he once had a dragon egg, but claims he randomly threw it overboard during one of his dark moods. I thought the implication was that Euron actually gave his dragon egg to the FM as payment for Balon's murder? We know dragon eggs are incredibly valuable, and we know Euron's whole scheme of conquest involves dragons (he won the Kingsmoot by basically promising he could bring dragons to the Ironborn). A dragon egg would be the perfect thing for the FM to demand from someone like Euron, not just because of an egg's intrinsic value, but because of what Euron would be "giving up"---the FM probably thought they were demanding Euron's greatest hope for conquest (since Euron logically couldn't get a dragon if he had no egg to hatch, and a Euron/Dany alliance was probably not considered a possibility, either because of Dany heading East instead of West, or even because the contract might have been sealed before Dany hatched those eggs), thus rendering the egg a price worthy of assassinating a king.Euron's story about what happened to that egg was certainly bizarre enough that if he'd been telling it to anyone but Victarion, that person would probably have called bullshit on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In AFFC, Euron told Victarion that he once had a dragon egg, but claims he randomly threw it overboard during one of his dark moods. I thought the implication was that Euron actually gave his dragon egg to the FM as payment for Balon's murder? We know dragon eggs are incredibly valuable, and we know Euron's whole scheme of conquest involves dragons (he won the Kingsmoot by basically promising he could bring dragons to the Ironborn). A dragon egg would be the perfect thing for the FM to demand from someone like Euron, not just because of an egg's intrinsic value, but because of what Euron would be "giving up"---the FM probably thought they were demanding Euron's greatest hope for conquest (since Euron logically couldn't get a dragon if he had no egg to hatch, and a Euron/Dany alliance was probably not considered a possibility, either because of Dany heading East instead of West, or even because the contract might have been sealed before Dany hatched those eggs), thus rendering the egg a price worthy of assassinating a king.Euron's story about what happened to that egg was certainly bizarre enough that if he'd been telling it to anyone but Victarion, that person would probably have called bullshit on it.Ooooh, that's right, I forgot about the dragon egg. Nice catch. It did seem odd that he would just throw the egg overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syseanne Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just found this thread couple pages back, its so helpful if you're as much of a Newbie as I am.So Thank You very much Cosmic Maintenace Man, I'm gonna look at some more of these kind of Theory-explanations ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetRobin4Life Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why are we so positive the FM are out to kill all dragons? The Targs had dragons for at least a century after Braavos was revealed, If they weren't afraid of Aegon's three then why should they so desperatly try to kill Dany's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw89 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It was definitely Euron. Who cares if he showed up a day after Balon died. We already know he's a confident bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longspear Ryk Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I always thought that was foreshadowing that the Damphair is eventually going to kill Euron somehow...Something that bothers me a little about the "Euron hired a faceless man to kill Balon" theory (although most of it makes sense) is that it seems a little "too" convenient that Euron is the prime suspect because he comes back to Pyke just one day after Balon's death...surely everyone would think that would be too big of a coincidence to be just a coincidence and Euron wouldn't be so conspicuous about it... If he had really hired a FM to kill Balon, wouldn't he wait a few days or weeks to come back home as to not be considered a suspect ?So five possibilities :1) It really was a huge coincidence. Euron was not the one who hired the FM. Maybe Victarion did, hoping to claim the throne for himself, thinking Euron was long dead. Euron just happened to come back at the wrong time.> This one strikes me as improbable. TGoHH's visions have all proved correct and who would the crow represent, if not Euron Crow's Eye ? A maester of the Citadel maybe ? But to what end ?2) It wasn't a coincidence. Euron hired the FM and came back as soon as possible, before his brother could make a move for the Throne, not thinking that everyone would think his return a bit too timely.>I find it hard to believe that Euron would be so conspicuous and return immediately after his brother's death, given what we know about Euron's crafty and resourceful personality. He'd wait a few days and let the dust settle, as he'd know everyone would accuse him on his overly-coincidental return.3) It wasn't a coincidence. Euron did hire the FM and planned his return knowing that people would suspect him, but at the same time hoping they would think it too 'easy' an explanation to just accept it like that.>Possible, but that's a little twisted and convoluted... so I dunno.4) Not a coincidence. Someone got wind of Euron's imminent return to Pyke and saw that as a perfect opportunity to frame him. The "drowned crow with seaweed" could indicate that it was actually Aeron framing (ie. making it appear as if it was the Crow, ie. a disguised crow...?)>Another possibility...5) The Man without a Face is not a Faceless Man at all and the Crow is not Euron at all and we are all interpreting this vision wrong. If there really is nothing more to it than what the Ghost says, then there really is no mystery around Balon's death and that would be a little boring, wouldn't it ?We have no elements other than the Ghost's vision, so it's hard to come up with an explanation that makes sense.He shows up he next day on purpose... Its implied he killed him... He knows no one gona do shit about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longspear Ryk Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Also to add to your theory i believe euron paid the faceless men with his dragon egg whch is why jaquan is at the citadel tryn to find how to hatch it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be26 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Apologies for bumping a topic that's been covered pretty efficiently already, but the constant repetition of the crow, the drowned crow and the faceless crow is making me wonder if there's something to be made of the fact it's a crow, not a raven. Are there any Ironborn men in the Night's Watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im no Ser Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Apologies for bumping a topic that's been covered pretty efficiently already, but the constant repetition of the crow, the drowned crow and the faceless crow is making me wonder if there's something to be made of the fact it's a crow, not a raven. Are there any Ironborn men in the Night's Watch?Sure...Cotter Pyke for one.But - as noted above - the crow almost certainly references "crow's-eye" (Euron), not the NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Cooterian Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Really good post and discussion. I would like to offer a pro and then a con comment to the notion of Euron hiring the FM to kill Balon.Frist the con (disagreement). Ignoring the TGoHH prophecy for a moment, I had a problem with the idea that Balon could be killed by a FM as he was one of the three names that Stannis assigned to Melissandre's blood filled leaches. If it's coincedence, then R'Holler works in mysterious ways. If it's not coincedence...pardon me for a moment....it's too coincedential that a blood filled leach thrown into the fire would summon a FM to kill Balon. Is there some method by which Melissandre could contact another party who could commission the FM to kill Balon?Now for the pro; if Euron did commission the FM to kill Balon and had to make a significant sacrifice, what if he pledged his support to R'Holler and to give up the Drowned God? The thought goes along the line of once he was in the Seastone Chair, he would sway his people in support of R'Holler. This probably means that he is intending to kill Damphair. I am basing this on the notion that Braavos tends to be a R'Holler supporter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.Final thought on the "drowned crow with seaweed hanging from its wings". Doesn't crow typically mean that someone is running or flying away from something? In this case, the crow reference could be Euron running away from The Drowned God. Certainly he was drowned by the religious overtones of Pyke. Not sure about the seaweed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Good points.I wonder why the crow is drowned and has seaweed on it's wings. Is it foreshadowing or what?a drowned crow. euron crow's eye, one of the ironborn, who are referred to as drowned men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.