97 replies to this topic

[Drunkenspeton]

The Mormonts have an ancestral hatred of the ironborn. Jon told Stannis taking deepwood and restoring it to the Glovers would help win northmen to his cause.

Fighting the ironborn and the freeing Arya thing would seem to be justification.

The x factor is Alysane is not lady of Bear Island. Maege is.

Why would an heir or Castellan tie her houses cause to Stannis without Maeges approval?

Unless she had approval. Maege went north with Galbart Glover of deepwood motte. It all ties together somehow.

[Tini]

Alysane might tie her house's cause to Stannis if she had reason to suspect that her mother is dead. We don't know when she had news of her mother last time.

[FanTasy]

Apple Martini, on 13 January 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

2. I definitely think that the Mormonts warg bears.

Me too! Remember Tormunds story to Jon about when he had the hots for a woman who turned out to be a bear?

[Ice Turtle]

FanTasy, on 14 January 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Me too! Remember Tormunds story to Jon about when he had the hots for a woman who turned out to be a bear?

I always wondered just how closely he and Maege Mormont knew each other, Aly kind of looks little like his daughter, but he is also called Giantsbane, so he may have something with that missing Umbers daughter.

[Michael Jon Snow]

Tini, on 14 January 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Alysane might tie her house's cause to Stannis if she had reason to suspect that her mother is dead. We don't know when she had news of her mother last time.

Alysane seemed pretty confident that her sisters are with her mother. This would imply that there has been some communication with her mother after the red wedding. I can't see any other way she would know this.

[Michael Jon Snow]

Free Northman, on 13 January 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

The Mormonts have declared that there is only one King in the North and he is a Stark.

I fail to see why they would be willing to swear to Stannis. I think they want to USE Stannis to get rid of the Boltons, and then when they have Winterfell back, to declare Robb's will and put Jon on the throne as King in the North.

They have no desire to swear to Stannis whatsoever. This is a fantasy dreamed up by Stannis supporters.

I am hardly a Stannis supporter, and I find this very feasible.
Didn't Stannis tell Cat that Robb would be free to call himself whatever he wanted. He could keep the title "king" so long as he did fealty to Stannis? (or was that Renly?)
I think she its there to evaluate Stannis and determine if he is someone the north can negotiate with. Restoring WF to the Starks would go a long way to winning the North's support. If he proves worthy, she may have more than just her own family to offer.

[Pliskin]

It was Renly.

[Lady Octarina]

I don't know. But her mother is with Reed, isn't she? She knows Robb left the throne for Jon, but Jon soon became Lord Commander to the NW, and it might be generally known up North that he supports Stannis (even though he shouldn't). Maybe they kept in touch and exchanged these news, and Maege might have recommended she joins Stannis for strategic reasons? But that would bring the problem of how they would be communicating. At least in the beggining, the iron born were between GW and the Bear Island, they would most likely attack any ravens flying by...

Anyway, when I read the book, I didn't put much thought into this subject; it seemed clear to me that she was only there with Stannis because that was their best chance to free Winterfell from Bolton and rescue who they believe to be Arya.

[Ghost714]

sarah.jenice, on 13 January 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

I agree that the Mormonts are skinchangers and would love to see some bears fighting with the Mormont women.

I believe in the past the Mormonts were probably Wargs, but I don't know if I believe any of them are in the present. A warg and it's beast, are inseparable, and we haven't seen any of the Mormants with a bear, or any animal for that matter. Jorah, the Old bear, Maege, Dacey, Alysane....we have "met" all these characters, and none of them had/have an animal that travels with them every where they go, or anywhere they go for that matter. I agree maybe one of the Mormants we have not "met" yet, is a Warg.

As for the argument, that maybe they just didn't take their beasts with them???
I would say that, Robb took Grey Wind with him south. Jon took Ghost with him , into the Haunted Forest, on the Old Bears Ranging. Vyamer six skins had all six of his beasts, in the battle at the Wall. My point is, if any of the Mormont's we have "met" are Wargs, then why wouldn't they have their beast with them.

Jon feels that Ghost doesn't count as a friend, because Ghost is more than that, Ghost is a part of Jon. All Wargs feel this way towards there beasts, so I can not see a Warg leaving his beast behind. Jon only ever leaves Ghost for a long period of time, when he has to climb the Wall, that was when he absolutely had to leave him, because there was no way for Ghost to get over the Wall.

So in short, like I said, they could have been Wargs in the past, or maybe one of the Mormonts we have not "met" yet, is a Warg. But I don't believe any of them that we have "met" are Wargs, for reasons I have already listed.


Side note.
Did Alysane Mormont bring any Men with her, to Stannis, or just herself? I can't remember if she brought some Mormont Bannermen or not?if she did bring some, how many did she bring? If she didn't, wouldn't that be weird? The heir to Bear Island traveling alone(wouldn't that be a big hostage risk, she is pretty important)? Surely there were some men available to take with her? I guess I should just wait for the answer if she brought men or not with her, before I start asking all these "why not questions"

Edited by Ghost714, 19 January 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[Michael Jon Snow]

I doubt she attacked Asha's ships by herself. I picture her traveling with a small (20 or so) group of companions who pretty much keep to themselves within Stannis's camp. I don't know if this is from the text or my imagination.

[Jory]

Ghost714, on 19 January 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

I believe in the past the Mormonts were probably Wargs, but I don't know if I believe any of them are in the present. A warg and it's beast, are inseparable, and we haven't seen any of the Mormants with a bear, or any animal for that matter. Jorah, the Old bear, Maege, Dacey, Alysane....we have "met" all these characters, and none of them had/have an animal that travels with them every where they go, or anywhere they go for that matter.

"Are you freaking kidding me?" cawed the Raven. "Are you freaking kidding me?"

Edited by Jory, 20 January 2012 - 12:54 AM.

[Lexy Boleyn]

What if the Mormont women marry commoners from Bear Island and just say that their lover/morganatic husband is a bear since no other noble house can accept such an union?

[Knight of the Teabags]

Lexy Boleyn, on 20 January 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

What if the Mormont women marry commoners from Bear Island and just say that their lover/morganatic husband is a bear since no other noble house can accept such an union?

That would certainly fit with the whole 'do what needs be done' attitude of the family. I mean the Mormont apparent sexual equality in martial training appears to be far more practically minded than the rather more idealistic feminism you find in Dorne; for a Mormont woman being able to fight is not about any high notions of fairness (indeed she probably has far more important things to think about) rather than on Bear Island there simply isn't the luxury to being a non-combatant due to the regular Iron-born raids. Indeed the ideal Mormont woman is arguably one who successfully raises as many children as practically possible (everyone a potential future defender of Bear Island and insurance against the Mormonts dying out) whilst being as skilled with blades in battle as she is in the kitchen!

You never hear anything about any Mormont women's husbands in any official status and neither have we ever heard about any Mormont bastards. Is it possible that some or even all of Maege Mormont's daughters and their children are technically bastards conceived by whichever 'Bear-in-the-woods' took their mother's fancy on any given night? After all a child born of the Lady of Bear Island is a child born of the Lady of Island potentially capable of both defending Bear island and continuing the Mormont line regardless of gender or whether its father was married to its mother.

What happens on Bear Island stays on Bear Island...

Edited by Knight of the Teabags, 20 January 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Lexy Boleyn]

Knight of the Teabags, on 20 January 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

That would certainly fit with the whole 'do what needs be done' attitude of the family. I mean the Mormont apparent sexual equality in martial training appears to be far more practically minded than the rather more idealistic feminism you find in Dorne; for a Mormont woman being able to fight is not about any high notions of fairness (indeed she probably has far more important things to think about) rather than on Bear Island there simply isn't the luxury to being a non-combatant due to the regular Iron-born raids. Indeed the ideal Mormont woman is arguably one who successfully raises as many children as practically possible (everyone a potential future defender of Bear Island and insurance against the Mormonts dying out) whilst being as skilled with blades in battle as she is in the kitchen!

You never hear anything about any Mormont women's husbands in any official status and neither have we ever heard about any Mormont bastards. Is it possible that some or even all of Maege Mormont's daughters and their children are technically bastards conceived by whichever 'Bear-in-the-woods' took their mother's fancy on any given night? After all a child born of the Lady of Bear Island is a child born of the Lady of Island potentially capable of both defending Bear island and continuing the Mormont line regardless of gender or whether its father was married to its mother.

What happens on Bear Island stays on Bear Island...

Yeah, I like the " bear warg theory", but considering the Bear Island mentality ( fighting women who are pragmatically men's equals) seems to indicate that they rather choose unsuitable husbands/lovers.
- Lord Mormont NEVER mentionned his sister's husband, ans I think he would have been supposed to leave him the lordship of Bear Island, if he was a suitable noble.
-Considering Bear Island culture, choosing a consort from this culture is better, instead of "betraying it" ( Lynesse Hightower almost made her husband do it). Plus he must be strong to sire healthy kids ( daughters and sons being equally considered)
-After the Ironborn raids, the men who survived/ were not taken away for a ramsom were probably commoners, even if they were maimed or acted cowardly. So having no official consort/a consort who wouldn't be executed or kidnapped to get money was wisest. And it kept the island in the family.
But as you said, what happens on Bear Island...

PS: it doesn't seem to be a "physical pattern" for the Mormonts, like Stark's long faces and grey eyes, Lannister's blond mane and green eyes... Could it be another argument for my theory ( more commoner blood and genes than any other family, ad if a bear was involved, some trait would give evidence)?

Edited by Lexy Boleyn, 21 January 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I don't know I'm still undecided on Aly being a skinchanger. It just seems like the northern houses sigils may have certain meanings to them. House Stark-direwolf-warg-magical meaning. House Bolton-flayed man-we now know they really do it but could the practice have started from them wanting to skinchange? House Umber-a roaring giant with shattered chains-could the giants have been slaves of some kind with some connection to the Umbers? House Mormont-bear-? I really want to take some time and check more sigils.


Also does anyone think that Alysane could have anything to do with Asha wanting Stannis to take Theon to the weirwood?

[jarl the climber]

Yes thats what I think too, Asha heard her and other northeners talking about wanting Theon executed by the Heart tree.

Hose siglils of the North
Stark- Dire wolf
Glover- Mailed fist
Wull- three buckets
Cerwyn- Battle axe
Manderly- Trident
Ryswell- Horses
Umber- Giant with shattered chains
Karstark- White sunburst on a black field
Bolton- Flayed Man
Tallhart- Pine trees I think
Flint- grey hand?
Locke- ?maybe a key
Mormont- Bear
Animals aren't particularly common, Mormonts live closer to the wall, there lordship is recent, might have been skinchangers in the past. Wouldn't bring bears into battle with them if they still are, warging is a sensitive subject even in the North.

Edited by jarl the climber, 21 January 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Lord Bear Mormont]

Elaena Targaryen, on 13 January 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

I love your entire post. That is the same thought process i have. What do you think about the new sample chapter, (if you have read it?) and what you were thinking about Theon? On a side note, I wonder if all of the wargs/skinchangers are going to end up on the Wall?


If anyone likes the idea of a northern conspiracy this thread helped my tie everything together...

http://asoiaf.wester...l-conspiration/

Thanks for the link!

[Lord Bear Mormont]

The Second Sons will end up in Westeros and Jorah will redeem himself. He might even have to warg into a bear to save a King's life.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Free Northman, on 13 January 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

The Mormonts have declared that there is only one King in the North and he is a Stark.

I fail to see why they would be willing to swear to Stannis. I think they want to USE Stannis to get rid of the Boltons, and then when they have Winterfell back, to declare Robb's will and put Jon on the throne as King in the North.

They have no desire to swear to Stannis whatsoever. This is a fantasy dreamed up by Stannis supporters.

i can believe this. and i really want it, having Jon alive and running winter fell would be awesome. i've always felt that something was odd about the mormonts backing stannis. I can see it as a way to revive their tarnished family name. Jorah being labeled a traitor and being exiled really hurt their name, so maybe they're hoping stannis will win and redeem them.  Do we know when they joined him? was it after renly/robb/joffrey/balon died?

[Lady Octarina]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 27 February 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Do we know when they joined him? was it after renly/robb/joffrey/balon died?

Yes it was; by the time Stannis arrived in the North, they were all dead. By the time they joined Stannis, I'd guess weeks or months had passed since he fought against Mance's "army" at the Wall.