51 replies to this topic

[Ashen Shugar]

So there's a decent chance that we haven't seen the others at all yet and what we saw Waymar Royce fight at the very begining was one of the half human half Other mutts.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Apple,

I just started again too! Did you catch this line on re-read in Bran's first chapter:

"He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly  of the age of the heroes and the children of the forest"

So Ned frequently talked to the kids in the evenings about the COTF and AOH. I missed that tidbit on the first two read throughs LOL!

[Apple Martini]

silkakc, on 19 January 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Apple,

I just started again too! Did you catch this line on re-read in Bran's first chapter:

"He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly  of the age of the heroes and the children of the forest"

So Ned frequently talked to the kids in the evenings about the COTF and AOH. I missed that tidbit on the first two read throughs LOL!

I did notice that. I'm not sure what it means but it was weirdly kind of sweet and comforting.

[jaymi216]

OK, let's think about this thing for a bit. How could Azor Ahai and the Last Hero be the same person? I believe the Last Hero from the Age of Heroes was none other than Brandon Stark, known as the Builder. It is said he gave Durran, King of the Stormlands, advice on building Storms End. Durran had built six other castles that were wiped out by the storms, but the seventh, Storm's End, ended up being sturdy enough to withstanding the storms. Brandon was a boy then, and since he had audience with a king, it means he a son of someone of considerable influence and power. Now the long night started around the same night Durran, who was already old by then, finished the building Storm's End, and the many heroes like Lann the Clever, Durran, the Grey King and Garth Greenhand were dying of old age. Essentially, since the Long Night was 40 years long, the Last Hero had to have been a boy before the night begun. Old Nan said the Last Hero journeyed to the Lands of Always Winter to look for the Children of the Forest to help him defeat the Others. If he was successful to lead the armies of men to victory, which he clearly was, then he would have been crowned king, and we all know it was Bran the Builder who was crowned king after the War of Dawn, built Winterfell and raised the magical Wall.

As for Azor Ahai, the man was a blacksmith essentially who was made a sword, used sorcery and killed his wife to make Lightbringer and used the magical sword to defeat the Others. If he was the one who defeated the Others, then he would have been the one to be crowned king, and not Bran the Builder. I do not believe that Brandon Stark and Azor Ahai are the same person because Northerners don't subsribe to fire worship and human sacrifice, while R'hlorr followers do. which leads me to believe that maybe the whole Azor Ahai story is simply a myth.

Maybe Jon's saga, concerning why on earth Rhaegar abducted/eloped with Lyanna was simply out of love, not out of fulfilling a prophecy making their offspring the Prince Who Was Promised. I believe the key to the entire series does not lie with Jon Snow, or Stannis Baratheon, or even Daenerys Targaryen. I believe the key to the story is the boy who loved Architecture and climbing and the real Prince of Winterfell, the real heir of the North and Eddard's boy, the Winged Wolf, Bran Stark. His ability to see the past all the way back to the Kings of Winter of Old will enable him to witness just how Brandon the Builder, or Azor Ahai (depending on who you ask) defeated the Others. He'll walk again. He'll fly. and He'll be more fierce than his brother, the Young Wolf, ever was. add an adult Rickon to the mix (a true Stark, full of Wild wolf blood in him) and Jon and you got yourself a hell of a team. This winter will last about as long as the last Long Night, more than enough time for these kids to grow up.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Great topic!

I love the Old Nan tales and even more when some of them seem to be more real than we thought. I'm really curious about the ice dragon. I don't think we heard the story from Old Nan herself, right? But Jon thinks a couple of times about the ice dragon of the stories she told him as a child. I wonder if the story is the same that Martin wrote in his book (The ice dragon) or is a different one.

The one of the wildlings and the Others just give me the chills

[Ivy Snow]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 12 February 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Great topic!

I love the Old Nan tales and even more when some of them seem to be more real than we thought. I'm really curious about the ice dragon. I don't think we heard the story from Old Nan herself, right? But Jon thinks a couple of times about the ice dragon of the stories she told him as a child. I wonder if the story is the same that Martin wrote in his book (The ice dragon) or is a different one.

The one of the wildlings and the Others just give me the chills

Yea, I wonder about that too. It could be that there was an ice dragon? I am not sure.... We'll know about it eventually, soon, I hope T_T

[Ivy Snow]

I love and miss Old Nan... I wish Martin will write a book about her stories. I tend to believe more on her stories than any other prophesy told. I do hope we hear more about her stories.

[Winter's Lady]

Quote

I love the Old Nan tales and even more when some of them seem to be more real than we thought. I'm really curious about the ice dragon. I don't think we heard the story from Old Nan herself, right? But Jon thinks a couple of times about the ice dragon of the stories she told him as a child. I wonder if the story is the same that Martin wrote in his book (The ice dragon) or is a different one.

I just finished the Ice Dragon, and there are definitely some parallels between this story and ASoIaF that really made me think. It is possible, and would be just great .
# Return of the ice dragon in TWOW Jon will ride him and make icicles out of Dany's dragons!
*ahem*
Old Nan's stories have some significance, and didn't Martin say that they are the only stories that can be trusted or something like that? Too bad she's gone(or is she?) I love those stories.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Ivy Snow, on 12 February 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yea, I wonder about that too. It could be that there was an ice dragon? I am not sure.... We'll know about it eventually, soon, I hope T_T

An ice dragon would be the coolest thing ever have you read The ice dragon? It's a nice reading and even though the story takes place in a different world, I think it's interesting that Martin mentions the ice dragon as one of the Old Nan tales. As I said in another thread, as of now, I think that Jon is the ice dragon, a northerner with Targaryen blood so I'm not sure if we'll get real ice dragons. While re-reading ACOK I caught something that could foreshadow a real ice dragon, is on the chapter when Jon/Ghost via wolf dream talks to treeBran:

Quote

Then a sudden gust of cold made his fur stand up, and the air thrilled to the sound of wings. As he lifted his eyes to the ice-white mountain heights above, a shadow plummeted out of the sky. A shrill scream split the air. He glimpsed blue-grey pinions spread wide, shutting out the sun ...

And this is in The ice dragon:

Quote

When the ice dragon beat its wings, the cold winds blew and the snow swirled and scurried and the word seemed to shrink and shiver

What do you guys think? i think this happens after Bran tells Jon to open his third eye.

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 12 February 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Winter's Lady]

@Val
Yeah that's intersting...up to this point I thought this was Orell's eagle or something, but it could definitely be a reference to an ice dragon, now that I know that story(pleeease?).  Also the colors match - the dragon is described as looking like ice that is so cold it shimmers blue...and I also love the idea of Jon being the ice dragon - like "regular" dragons meaning "regular" Targs

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 12 February 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 12 February 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

@Val
Yeah that's intersting...up to this point I thought this was Orell's eagle or something, but it could definitely be a reference to an ice dragon, now that I nkow that story(pleeease?).  Also the colors match - the dragon is described as looking like ice that is so cold it shimmers blue...and I also love the idea of Jon being the ice dragon - like "regular" dragons meaning "regular" Targs

Yes, I also thought it was the eagle till I read about the ice dragons bringing the cold the same way the Others do, and it's probably just the eagle but well, the sudden gust of cold is confusing. It might be just my wishful thinking, though, I want an ice dragon!

[Winter's Lady]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 12 February 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Yes, I also thought it was the eagle till I read about the ice dragons bringing the cold the same way the Others do, and it's probably just the eagle but well, the sudden gust of cold is confusing. It might be just my wishful thinking, though, I want an ice dragon!

Yeah, me too!
But Jon as the ice dragon would be ok too, imagine having that as a nickname...bad.ass. This is my new favorite little crackpot^^

[FanTasy]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 12 February 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

While re-reading ACOK I caught something that could point to a real ice dragon, is on the chapter when Jon/Ghost via wolf dream talks to treeBran:



Then a sudden gust of cold made his fur stand up, and the air thrilled to the sound of wings. As he lifted his eyes to the ice-white mountain heights above, a shadow plummeted out of the sky. A shrill scream split the air. He glimpsed blue-grey pinions spread wide, shutting out the sun ...

English isn't my native tongue, but aren't pinions associated with birds and feathers? That would point to an eagle attack.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 12 February 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Yeah, me too!
But Jon as the ice dragon would be ok too, imagine having that as a nickname...bad.ass. This is my new favorite little crackpot^^

Yes, I need to go to the thread of theories that contradict themselves I love the idea of an ice dragon, but I'd also love Jon being the ice dragon, badass, indeed!

[Sevumar]

jaymi216, on 12 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I do not believe that Brandon Stark and Azor Ahai are the same person because Northerners don't subsribe to fire worship and human sacrifice, while R'hlorr followers do. which leads me to believe that maybe the whole Azor Ahai story is simply a myth.

ADWD contains a couple references to the First Men making sacrifices before the weirwoods. They may not do it in the present time, but it seemed to be a part of their "old-timey" religion.

[Winter's Lady]

FanTasy, on 12 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

English isn't my native tongue, but aren't pinions associated with birds and feathers? That would point to an eagle attack.

OK I just checked in a dictionary and your'e right! I didn't know that either, I thought it meant just wings. Oh well ,there's still the Jon --> ice dragon idea

[Val the Wildling Princess]

FanTasy, on 12 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

English isn't my native tongue, but aren't pinions associated with birds and feathers? That would point to an eagle attack.

Yeah, neither is mine but you may be right. I thought pinion was a synonym for wing, feathers or not.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Apple Martini, on 14 January 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I'm starting a reread before the second season of the show starts and just cracked open A Game of Thrones. It's been a while since I read it, and forgot this bit in Bran's opening chapter:



This is what Old Nan has told Bran about the wildlings. The crazy thing is, so much of it ended up being true. They do associate with giants and the, uh, dead (unwillingly, perhaps ...). They have stolen girls (Mors Umber sends his regards). The blood-from-a-horn thing is a stretch, but there are horns. So what if the half-human demon hellspawn thing ends up being true, too?

I think Martin has said something to the effect of Nan's "history" stories being the only accurate ones (does this mean the Last Hero interpretation is real but not the Azor Ahai interpretation?), but it never really occurred to me before now just what, as an aggregate, she's said and what the implications are if it does end up being true. There's that bit about the wildlings, which sounds like a children's horror story until you look back and see some truth to it. There are the Nightfort stories, which creep the bejesus out of me but yet also seem to be "coming around again," notably with Walder Frey starring in the role of the guest-right-abusing Rat Cook, and the possibility of Jon or Stannis as contenders for a new Night's King (I say Stannis, some say Jon).

Bran says that Old Nan is always getting him confused with one of the other Brandons, and Catelyn tells Bran that she's so old that all the Brandons just run together. I know there's an idea — I don't subscribe to it, but it's interesting — that Bran is a reincarnation of Brandon the Builder and that the history in ASOIAF is circular.

Nan's stories about the Others also seem eerily prescient. The story she tells is almost like a nasty fairy tale, but it's true. She talks about them taking down newborn children and new mothers and feeding children to their wights. Sounds sort of like Craster and his sons, no?

Anyone else recall any of Old Nan's stories that stick out but haven't really "happened" yet? I know there was a bit about sea monsters. Might that mean ... *Dr. Evil pinkie gesture* ... a kraken? And I'd love to know if these half-Other, half-human things exist.

I'm not sure Stannis isn't already the Night King, replace Other Woman in the story with Red Woman and it sounds about right.....

[Lykos]

It´s an Ice dragon with ice feathers.

ETA:  Like this

Edited by Lykos, 12 February 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

redriver, on 15 January 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Old Nan's stories are unfortunately too few and far between.I would love to listen to more of them.I was quite annoyed when the story of the first hero was interrupted by Tyrion's arrival.

But there is enough there to suggest to me that the Others are sentient and have a story of their own to tell.

And yes,there's bound to be a kraken-hopefully a timely one who brings Euron down.

And their women lay with the Others during the Long Night to sire terrible half-human children.

This has echoes of Biblical stories of the sons of god,earthly women and the Nephelim.Creepy

Of course they're sentient we see them laugh at Waymar Royce.