496 replies to this topic

[Angalin]

Last posts from the previous thread:

Ghost714, on 17 January 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I live in the midwest, Kansas to be specific, and my whole life my family has had horses. For the most part our horses drink water out of a pond. And every winter, I have to "chop ice" so the horses can get water when it freezes. Basically I have to chop holes in the ice, with an axe, and during the worst part of winter this has to be done every day, because the holes re-freeze over night.

My point is, I am sure winter in The North of Westeros, is worse then winter in Kansas. So I Do believe Stannis will get his "ice Lake trap" idea, from seeing the holes that were made from his army fishing out the lake. But I don't think he will be able to use those same holes, because those holes would have re-frozen by now. Because the lake was "fished out" days ago. At the very least, Stannis will need have the "ice fishing holes" re-cut, no longer than 12 hours before the Bolton army goes out on the lake. Otherwise I believe the ice would be to solid to break, when the Bolton army goes on the lake(because it is so bloody cold in the North).

So I guess what I am trying to say is, this plan could take some very good timing to work right.

Melisandra, on 17 January 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

It does appear that Maester Tybald is a new character introduced in the gift chapter: http://awoiaf.wester...ndex.php/Tybald

Melisandra, on 17 January 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

...and I live in Minnesota, so I too am familiar with ice! I work in the transportation industry and therefore talk to many people from other states and I have been asked about ice fishing from people who live in southern states. They seem to be under the impression that the ice is only a few inches thick. They are often surprised that it's typically 14+ inches thick with many fishing holes drilled in it. I do hope that since GRRM has spent much of his time in CA and NM that he's spent some research into "ice" before writing any "rotted" ice passage! (I'm sure he has...he must have!)

bemused, on 17 January 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm sure GRRM has done his research too .
Happily for me, I'm not that familiar with ice ( Canadian west coast .. now , mud I can relate to) But would all the ice re-freeze to the same thickness ? ...  Stannis helping out is fine with me , too. and what about the slippy - slidiness ? I guess a lot would depend on how much snow cover there was , but it seems like a horse's leg would sink in farther than a person's.

And surely the northmen with " bear paws " can be put to some good use ?

Edited by Angalin, 18 January 2012 - 02:02 AM.

[The Drunkard]

Ah mah gahd, I just found it and read it. Can't wait to see how Stannis handles Bolton's attack force.

[Ghost714]

The Drunkard, on 18 January 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Ah mah gahd, I just found it and read it. Can't wait to see how Stannis handles Bolton's attack force.

This battle is going to be amazing!!!

If you remember correctly, Tywin Lannister was more worried about Stannis Baratheon, then he was Robb Stark, and Renely Baratheon. Despite Robb and Renely both having larger armies than Stannis.
And I believe we are going to finally get to see a prime example, of why Tywin was most worried about Stannis!!! Woo!! It's going to be so bad ass!!!

Stannis, in this new Theon chapter, was amazing. And I believe we only saw the tip of the ice burg, in regards to how awesome Stannis is going to be. (and just for the record, I am not a huge Stannis fan, but I believe In giving credit when it's deserved)

Stannis has a big upper hand here. Roose Bolton does not know, that Stannis knows, that Roose knows where Stannis is. (ha ha say that ten times fast)
Anyway take that fact, and throw in the ice lake, and the fact that Bolton is expecting Manderly and Karstark to fight for Bolton (Manderly will turn his cloak, and Karstark's men will fight for Stannis).......Take all this into consideration, and Stannis has a recipe, for a pure Bolton ass-whooping!!!!

Edited by Ghost714, 18 January 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[Waterfall]

Ah man, during ADwD I just couldn't wait untill this battle commenced. It just didn't came, first those drums, where I thought "it's going to happen any minute now! oh boy". But at the end of the book it still didn't happen, argh! This chapter is the perfect gift, Stannis is going to kick some ass, and after that, the Freys are next. Stannis realises he cannot hold all the 7 kingdoms, so he will give Rickon the North and the Trident. Offcourse it won't happen that way, but never lower your expectations!

[Lady Octarina]

Ghost714, on 18 January 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

This battle is going to be amazing!!!

If you remember correctly, Tywin Lannister was more worried about Stannis Baratheon, then he was Robb Stark, and Renely Baratheon. Despite Robb and Renely both having larger armies than Stannis.
And I believe we are going to finally get to see a prime example, of why Tywin was most worried about Stannis!!! Woo!! It's going to be so bad ass!!!

Stannis, in this new Theon chapter, was amazing. And I believe we only saw the tip of the ice burg, in regards to how awesome Stannis is going to be. (and just for the record, I am not a huge Stannis fan, but I believe In giving credit when it's deserved)

Stannis has a big upper hand here. Roose Bolton does not know, that Stannis knows, that Roose knows where Stannis is. (ha ha say that ten times fast)
Anyway take that fact, and throw in the ice lake, and the fact that Bolton is expecting Manderly and Karstark to fight for Bolton (Manderly will turn his cloak, and Karstark's men will fight for Stannis)........ Take all this into consideration, and Stannis has a recipe, for a pure Bolton ass-whooping!!!!

Gods, when I read this chapter it was around 2 a.m. down here, and I actually yelled in delight when I saw Stannis was going to kick some asses! I mean, ADWD led us to believe he barely had any chance, and this chapter proved to us that's not really the case. Problem is, Manderly will only fight for Stannis once Davos comes back with Rickon, right? But isn't Roose sending Manderly and the Freys to fight him now? Anyway, there's always a chance we see some Davos chapter before this one.

And I think you're right, the fact that Tywin, one of the best strategists, the most skilled players in the game of thrones, was worried about Stannis of all people has to mean something!

[David C. Hunter]

Lady Octarina, on 18 January 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Gods, when I read this chapter it was around 2 a.m. down here, and I actually yelled in delight when I saw Stannis was going to kick some asses! I mean, ADWD led us to believe he barely had any chance, and this chapter proved to us that's not really the case. Problem is, Manderly will only fight for Stannis once Davos comes back with Rickon, right? But isn't Roose sending Manderly and the Freys to fight him now? Anyway, there's always a chance we see some Davos chapter before this one.

And I think you're right, the fact that Tywin, one of the best strategists, the most skilled players in the game of thrones, was worried about Stannis of all people has to mean something!

I think Tywin was worried about Stannis because is actually a great soldier and tactician and all Tywin does is slaughter people when they are sleeping(lol)

Anyway, This is going to be a long battle. Stannis vs Freys, Stannis vs Ramsay and Stannis vs the Great Roose Bolton. I hope he survives this entire book.

[The Sunset King]

It definitely seems some of the series's most vile garbage will be vanquished by Stannis.  The Boltons are screwed beyond all possible repair due to how hated their idiocy has made them and now have informants and captives revealing all sorts of information to Stannis and his allies.  Melisandre will be interested in incinterating Roose and Ramsay or perhaps someone else will slay them rather than either becoming captives to execute.

If Stannis succeeds in the North (likely) it will be very intriguing to see how the Brotherhood without Banners reacts to him.  Will they agree to work with him undoing the Frey charade?  Seems reasonably probable, especially if unCatelyn is gone.  Walder Frey has little hope of surviving this book.  


With how impressed he is by Jon Snow, perhaps there is a very slight chance Stannis would consider making Snow is heir if something happened to Shireen.

Edited by The Sunset King, 18 January 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

The Sunset King, on 18 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

It definitely seems some of the series's most vile garbage will be vanquished by Stannis.  The Boltons are screwed beyond all possible repair due to how hated their idiocy has made them and now have informants and captives revealing all sorts of information to Stannis and his allies.  Melisandre will be interested in incinterating Roose and Ramsay or perhaps someone else will slay them rather than either becoming captives to execute.

If Stannis succeeds in the North (likely) it will be very intriguing to see how the Brotherhood without Banners reacts to him.  Will they agree to work with him undoing the Frey charade?  Seems reasonably probable, especially if unCatelyn is gone.  Walder Frey has little hope of surviving this book.  


With how impressed he is by Jon Snow, perhaps there is a very slight chance Stannis would consider making Snow is heir if something happened to Shireen.

I wonder if a marriage offer for Shireen will be in the making.  Jon refused to be legitimized because of the claim of his siblings (cousins) but if offered the crown instead, he may agree.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

This is the chapter I have waited for, as is shows the true skill and ability that Stannis possesses.  Up until now I shuddered at the thought of Stannis winning the iron throne.  I thought that it would be the worst outcome that GRRM could have written.  He is still as hard as iron, but has shown some inclination to bend ever so slightly when important matters are at issue.  

Though I love the Roose and Ramsay characters, they are in need of some of Stannis' hard justice.  I secretly hope that Roose finds a way to survive.  The Freys on the other hand must be extinguished!!!

My main concern with Stannis plan concerns Justin Massey.  He seems like false coin and in this for his own personal gain.  He is not likely to find any sell swords across the sea due to the Meereen war.  However he will find Dany.  House Massey is an ancient House sworn to the iron throne.  They served house Targaryen for hundreds of years.  I could easily see him working out a side deal with Dany.

[Jaehaerys I]

I can't wait for Stannis to crush the Boltons and Freys. Am I one of the only people that doesn't feel bad at all for Theon and still wants him to die? I have no sympathy for him.

[Ghost714]

Jaehaerys I, on 18 January 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

I can't wait for Stannis to crush the Boltons and Freys. Am I one of the only people that doesn't feel bad at all for Theon and still wants him to die? I have no sympathy for him.

No your not the only one. I personally feel that Theon could be a redeemable character(like Jaime), and I think Theon could be used to do some good things. A lot of people think Theon has suffered enough, and has paid for his crimes, via Ramsey. I personally think, no matter what, in the end......Theon must die, for what he has done.

Edited by Ghost714, 19 January 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[Noimporta]

Quote

Jon refused to be legitimized because of the claim of his siblings (cousins) but if offered the crown instead, he may agree.

The only reason Jon considered Winterfell in the first place was for what it meant to him, he has no attachment to the Throne that would make him break his vows.

Quote

He seems like false coin and in this for his own personal gain.

For whatever it's worth, Massey was with Stannis from the very beginning and never abandoned him. He also seems to give him honest counsel, which could be taken as a sign of loyalty. Of course, I doubt his searching of sellswords will go as planned, but I don't think he'll betray his king.

[Ghost714]

Noimporta, on 18 January 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

The only reason Jon considered Winterfell in the first place was for what it meant to him, he has no attachment to the Throne that would make him break his vows.


For whatever it's worth, Massey was with Stannis from the very beginning and never abandoned him. He also seems to give him honest counsel, which could be taken as a sign of loyalty. Of course, I doubt his searching of sellswords will go as planned, but I don't think he'll betray his king.

Yeah I agree.
Justin Massey has stuck with Stannis through the good and the bad times.....and there has been a lot of bad times. I don't see him turning on Stannis, especially now right when Stannis actually has a real shot at winning. Also Justin Massey wants to get with Asha Greyjoy, Stannis told Massey, "Serve me well in this matter of the sellswords, and you may have what you desire."
So I see that as an extra incentive, for Justin to not betray Stannis

Edited by Ghost714, 19 January 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Tini]

Ghost714, on 18 January 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

No your not the only one. I personally feel that Theon could be a redeemable character(like Jaime), and I think Theon could be used to do some good things. A lot of people think Theon has suffered enough, and has paid for his crimes, via Ramsey. I personally think, no matter what, in the end......Theon must die, for what he has done.

I don't think Theon has learned anything. He is just the same old Theon, selfish, and looking out for himself only. And blind to mid to long term consequences. If he survives, he may commit the same atrocious acts as in the past. If he had learned anything but the fact that Ramsay can cut his remaining fingers off, I wouldn't mind his continued existence.

[ManyFacedOne]

Tini, on 19 January 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

I don't think Theon has learned anything. He is just the same old Theon, selfish, and looking out for himself only. And blind to mid to long term consequences. If he survives, he may commit the same atrocious acts as in the past. If he had learned anything but the fact that Ramsay can cut his remaining fingers off, I wouldn't mind his continued existence.

I disagree. One of the main things that drove Theon in the past, besides a need for love and approval, was his pride, which ulitmately lead to his downfall. Theon's pride has been broken now (along with his body) and he's been completely transformed by it. I don't see how he's selfish either, other than there's really no one he has to look out for but himself, but that was before Jeyne. He was clearly always sympathetic to her situation; he was just powerless to help her, for the most part. He did stick his neck out for her, though, and in the end, knowing what was waiting for him if he failed, risked his life to save her. So he was definitely aware of all the long term consequences of his actions. And he still was intent on helping her after their escape so it wasn't just about saving his own skin.

Strangely enough, I think Theon's more of a man now with his cock cut off than he was with one.

[The Drunkard]

I don't really understand why Theon is moving back into his 'douche' zone. Why was he continually trying to scare/irritate Stannis? Because Stannis was chaining him up for betraying the north? If Theon reverts back into his old personality... I don't know... I'll be annoyed.

*shakes fist*

[Ghost714]

ManyFacedOne, on 19 January 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

I disagree. One of the main things that drove Theon in the past, besides a need for love and approval, was his pride, which ulitmately lead to his downfall. Theon's pride has been broken now (along with his body) and he's been completely transformed by it. I don't see how he's selfish either, other than there's really no one he has to look out for but himself, but that was before Jeyne. He was clearly always sympathetic to her situation; he was just powerless to help her, for the most part. He did stick his neck out for her, though, and in the end, knowing what was waiting for him if he failed, risked his life to save her. So he was definitely aware of all the long term consequences of his actions. And he still was intent on helping her after their escape so it wasn't just about saving his own skin.

Strangely enough, I think Theon's more of a man now with his cock cut off than he was with one.

I agree with what your saying, Theon did help Jeyne. That's why earlier, I said Theon is still a "redeemable" character in my book. But in the end I do think he will need to pay for what he has done, with his life's blood.....but I am not opposed to the idea, of Theon being used to do "more good", before he must die(as long as he does die in the end, for what he has done)

Side note,
I really do not buy into the theory of, "Theon King/Lord of the Iron Islands".
The only way that can happen, is if Euron dies. which I believe he will, but the Iron Islands will go to Asha, or at the very least Victarion.
As far as Asha calling another "Kingsmoot", on the grounds that Theon was not able to make his claim. I really don't see that happening either, because the Iron Islands are kind of like the Wildlings in a sense, they both follow strength. Theon would never be viewed as "strong enough" to rule the Iron Islands, especially after the way Ramsey left him(he is less than half a man now).
However I can see Asha getting the Iron Islands, if she can convince some of them to support Stannis, and if Stannis ends up winning the Iron Throne,  In that situation, I could see Asha getting the Iron Islands.
Similar situation for Victarion getting the Iron Islands. If Victarion does end up supporting Danaerys(and I believe he will), then I could see Danaerys, making him Lord of the Iron Islands(and giving Victarion charge over her Royal navy, as Master of ships), assuming Danaerys wins the Iron Throne, of course. (I don't know if I believe Dany will get the Iron Throne, but I do believe its very possible)

Edited by Ghost714, 19 January 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[3CityApache]

The Sunset King, on 18 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Walder Frey has little hope of surviving this book.

Well, actually Walder Frey has little hope of surviving another month or so, given his age. It would be most impolite of him to die of an old age before a sword of justice could be swung upon his neck. And i'm afraid that's exactly what the old bastard is going to do.

[Michael Jon Snow]

Lady Octarina, on 18 January 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

Problem is, Manderly will only fight for Stannis once Davos comes back with Rickon, right? But isn't Roose sending Manderly and the Freys to fight him now? Anyway, there's always a chance we see some Davos chapter before this one.

Fighting against Bolton =/= fighting for Stannis. Manderly doesn't need Davos to return with Rickon  to fight against the Freys or Boltons. (tho I will concede that word that Davos has returned might have been what caused the change in Manderly's behavior at the end of Dance, I would argue that he might have had some other indicator that it was time to turn on Bolton.)

I would agree that Rickon's safe return and Stannis recognizing Rickon as the Lord of Winterfel would be a requirement for an alliance between Manderly and Stannis.

[Stark@heart]

Sorry, can't get on the Stannis bandwagon.. He helped to kill my beloved Robb and his father - The Ned

If only he would have told Ned what was up with him and Jon Arryn and Robert's bastards.  Oh well, that's not the story we got.

What we got is Stannis, an prude with a stick up his ass about his rights and his due.  He thinks too highly of himself, he's the brother of the man who killed the Prince of the Realm for the love of a woman. He has a pinch of dragonsblood but in no way is of the Blood Royal but from his attitude you see that he thinks himself superior to others and his morals and decorum as an ideal.  You can tell he is loathe to be in the company of those he believes as benenth him or inferior.

Now with Mel whispering in his ear about how he is AA a hero born again he's even more smug and free with the one-liners.

I agree he is a strong and complex character. I just can't root for him to "win" the Iron Throne when Ned was trying to hand it to him on a damn sliver platter and his pride (overrated opinion of himself) got in the way.  In fact I think his character will take a much darker turn soon - Maybe a return of the Night King- once his battle for the Throne is over.

If he's still contesting for the Iron Throne when Dany finally shows up with the dragons, I'd love to have a scene where he grinds his teeth so hard at the sight of them that he actually snaps some off.  That would make up for some of the evil he's done I guess.  I liked his character more in the latest book but still look forward to the end of him and his Red Bitch.

I don't think Theon will survive very far into TWOW unless Bran/BR have a use for him. Can you imagine a crazed Theon/Reek/? travelog for a journey back to Winterfell or to the Wall?

That'd make my day too.

I have a bad feeling about Rickon. It seem a little late at this stage for him to just pop back up in the storyline. I know the books overlap in some instances but you'd still need to devote alot of pages to bringing the character up to speed with everything else that's happened in the book.  Unless we get - Osha/Rickon/Shaggydog make for unknown locale and chill for 3 years, that's not the way GRRM does things.  My CPT is that Rickon died a while back or even more GRRM, we never find out what happed to Rickon & Co.

Also in my CPT, Davos will be diverted from his quest to find Rickon by events at the Wall.  The Others and White Walker/Wrights i.e  dead things in the water.  This will bring Davos to the Wall where the real action will be taking place thanks to Bowen March and his fellow betrayers.  Can't wait.. damn, this is GRRM so.. atleast I know the wait will be worth it.