496 replies to this topic

[SeanF]

I think Theon 1 does take place just before the final Jon chapter in ADWD.  If not, then Ramsay is plainly lying.

One final point is that I would have expected the Boltons to send a raven to King's Landing as soon as they had beaten Stannis, if true, yet this goes unmentioned by Ser Kevan and the Small Council in the Epilogue to ADWD/

[Conor]

The important phrase in the letter, for me, is 'Reek'. This would strongly indicate that Bolton wrote the letter. However, I am inclined to think that only the parts about capturing Mance and the Widlings and the escape of 'Arya' and Theon are the only genuine parts of the letter. I could be wrong though.

Edited by Conor, 18 April 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[MikeDC]

Rockroi, on 17 April 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think much of the logic involved herein is reaching and is violating a major rule of mine: does the alternate explanation raise more question than it answers?

The letter, on its face, is written by Ramsey Bolton.

Except it makes no sense whatsoever as written by Ramsay Bolton. I don't disagree with your rule, but in comparing the possibilities, I don't see any sensible explanation for Bolton authoring this letter at all, let alone in the way it's written. So if it's not sensible that he wrote it, someone else must have. The fallback answer I keep seeing here is that Ramsay is nuts, but he's not strictly nuts.

He's bloodthirsty, impulsive, and evil, yes. But his past behavior indicates that he's also rational, and really, pretty shrewd. He's masterminded a variety of devious plots (killing off his half-brother Domeric, swapping places with Reek, tricking Theon, killing the kids to cover up the escape of Bran and Rickon, tricking Rodrik Cassel and killing him, tricking Theon again, tricking the Iron Born into giving up Moat Cailin without a fight), so saying he's just plain old crazy and desperate doesn't cut it for me. He's evil, but not crazy, and he's resolved desperate situations before without going off the deep end.

So from that perspective, the letter doesn't fit him on its face. Let's consider the what's going on:
1. GRRM has outright said the letter is chock full O' lies.
2. We have the subsequent Theon chapter here saying that Stannis is alive and well.
3. Ramsay is not in charge of anything at the time of writing. How does this letter get past Roose?
4. If read literally, the letter is internally inconsistent from Ramsay's perspective as well. The author of the letter says, "<i>I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. </i>". According to your interpretation, the "his" equals Stannis, right?
5.Literally none of the stuff asked for in the letter sounds like things Ramsay would ask for.
A) He'd be sitting around writing letters about "his bride"? Not out tracking her down? I don't picture him writing letters before setting off in a haste.
He'd keep Mance around in one piece?
C) Mance spilled his guts that quickly? About all sorts of things pretty irrelevant to anything Ramsay would conceivably ask (the NW, wildlings, etc).
D) Ramsay only passingly mentions Reek and doesn't really make getting his bride back the center of the conversation.

You ask, "What would a letter from Ramsey sound like?”

OK, the answer is he would not write a letter in the first place.
Second, he wouldn't fill it with talk about beating Stannis in battle, telling people he'll leave them alone, and asking for all sorts of people who mean nothing to him.

I can believe the letter is written by Mance. I can believe it's written by Stannis. But it makes pretty much no sense to think it's written by Ramsay

[Rockroi]

So from that perspective, the letter doesn't fit him on its face. Let's consider the what's going on:

Quote

1. GRRM has outright said the letter is chock full O' lies.

The letter is fuilled with lies whether its a code to be interpretted or Ramsey being Ramsey.

Quote

2. We have the subsequent Theon chapter here saying that Stannis is alive and well.

The Theon chapter almost assuredly takes place before the events dscribed in the last Jon Snow chapter.  we do not know this but it seems likely.

Quote

3. Ramsay is not in charge of anything at the time of writing. How does this letter get past Roose?

Roose probably rode out with the army assembling to face Stannis.  At the very least it seems remarkably unlikely that Roose and Ramsey would be together when the army rode out.  The army and those remaining behind need a strong and stable leader who the people they are surrounded by 1) respect and 2) would not openly defy.  If Roose stayed at WF with Ramsey that would mean Manderlys and Freys were out in the North looking for Stannis.  That group would need a leader.  Conversely, the people staying behind would need foundation and able leadership as the snows kept falling.

Quote

4. If read literally, the letter is internally inconsistent from Ramsay's perspective as well. The author of the letter says, "<i>I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. </i>". According to your interpretation, the "his" equals Stannis, right?

Yes.  Those are all people who are associated with Stannis.  There is no contradiction.

Quote

5.Literally none of the stuff asked for in the letter sounds like things Ramsay would ask for.

Sure it would, especially Reek.  Ramsey also needs hostages, especially if at the time he wrote the letter Ramsey knew he was lying.

Quote

A) He'd be sitting around writing letters about "his bride"? Not out tracking her down? I don't picture him writing letters before setting off in a haste.

He would if Roose ordered him to stay put for the reasons I stated above.  He would if he did not want to risk the fighting with the guerrilla force stacked outside his gates.  He would if he did not want to freeze to death.

Quote

B ) He'd keep Mance around in one piece?

Who says he has?  Maybe Mance is minus a few fingers, toes, teeth and skin?  Nothing in that letter precludes that outcome.

Quote

C) Mance spilled his guts that quickly? About all sorts of things pretty irrelevant to anything Ramsay would conceivably ask (the NW, wildlings, etc).

All the information is connected.  For starters, if we know one thing its that Ramsey is a sadistic monster who enjoys hurting people.  He is very effective at it.  Torture works and people - every person- has their breaking point.  The last Winterfell chapter happens a good deal of time prior to this letter (and maybe more given MArtin's practice of crumpling/expanding time as he deems fit).  So, he could have held Mance for days or weeks.  Next, Ramsey would rip off skin, hack away fingers and eventually he would ask "Where is my bride?"  Mance would not know.  Fine.  He would then, if available, turn to the women.  He would start in on them.  How long would that take?  Not before THEY would crack but before Mance's humanity would kick in?  He starts asking them all "Where is my bride?  Who sent you?  Why?  What do they want with me?"  Eventually everything can come out.  Each question tied to every answer in a line of information that - once started- would not take more than an hour to extract.

Quote

D) Ramsay only passingly mentions Reek and doesn't really make getting his bride back the center of the conversation.

He makes SPECIFIC mention of Reek (by contrast, the only other person he mentions by name is Stannis and Mance... interesting).  In other words sending that as a "code" makes absolutely no sense at all because nobpody deciphering the code knows who the hell Reek is.  Nor cares.

But ... if it were a code... they would know who Theon was.

Ramsey mentions the bride at three times; there is no doubt he is focusing on her AND FOR GOOD REASON!  His legitimacy to WF is tied to her, regardless of how fake she is.

Quote

You ask, "What would a letter from Ramsey sound like?”


OK, the answer is he would not write a letter in the first place.

That's a big conclusion; I require some rationale and facts to back it up before I could swallow it.  Ramsey has written letters before, complete with scraps of skin etc.  He sent one to Asha Greyjoy when Moat Cailen fell.  In the letter he signed it "Ramsey Bolton, Lord of Winterfell."  which is not too far off from "Trueborn" lord of Winterfell. That letter "was scrawled in brown in a huge, spiky hand. It spoke of the fall of Moat Cailin, of the triumphant return of the Warden of the North to his domains, of a marriage soon to be made. The first words were, “I write this letter in the blood of ironmen,” the last, “I send you each a piece of prince. Linger in my lands, and share his fate.”

Martin, George R.R. (2011-07-12). A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (p. 332). Bantam. Kindle Edition.

That letter sounds justa s ominous, just as evil, just as crazy and threatening as the letter sent to Jon Snow. I will say that its opdd that unlike the letter to Asha, this letter does NOT contain a scrap of Mance's skin.

Quote

Second, he wouldn't fill it with talk about beating Stannis in battle, telling people he'll leave them alone, and asking for all sorts of people who mean nothing to him.

But in the letter he sent Asha he SPECIFICALLY mentioned a battle that was won- Moat Cailen.  And he made threats.  We also do not know what the letter said in the parts between what is written above.

Quote

I can believe the letter is written by Mance. I can believe it's written by Stannis. But it makes pretty much no sense to think it's written by Ramsay

I can believe quite a lot, though.  I can believe it was written by Ramsey (as the evidnece does not preclude him) same for Mance and maybe Mel.  Stannis seems a stretch but I am open.  So far the evidence really still supports either.  Logic seems to support only Ramsey.

Edited by Rockroi, 18 April 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[Feather Crystal]

I really, really, rrreeeaaalllly, think Stannis faked the letter to lure Jon to defend Winterfell. Stannis was disappointed that Jon was named Lord Commander. His success in the North depends upon Jon being Lord of Winterfell.

[Travex]

^Seems unlikely if he already has Arya... Or at least thinks he does.

[Rockroi]

Quote

I really, really, rrreeeaaalllly, think Stannis faked the letter to lure Jon to defend Winterfell. Stannis was disappointed that Jon was named Lord Commander. His success in the North depends upon Jon being Lord of Winterfell.

Stannis' tongue would leap out of his own mouth if he ever referred to himself or allowed anyone to make it LOOK like they referred to him as a "false King."

Stannis is also not a liar; he is very direct and extremely duty-bound.  Sending a false letter that would result in hundreds of people killed would be rediculous.

Stannis is also not an idiot.  Stannis has a far more effective way to get Jon down to WF- send a letter to him under his own seal that portrays him in a desperate situation badly in need of reinforcements; lie and say that Arya was severly wounded in the fighting etc.

It makes absolutely no sense for Stannis to write that letter; its not in Stannis' character to write that letter; and Stannis has better options than to write that letter.

[Feather Crystal]

^ @Rockroi - you are welcome to your own opinion, but Stannis is the one that told Massey that he may hear rumors of his death. Why would he say that unless he was formulating some plan? I do not think Stannis is an idiot. He's a brilliant strategist and it would be to his benefit to have Jon as Lord Stark of Winterfell. He's already said it. Jon turned him down and he wasn't happy about it. This would be the only way Stannis could get Jon to break his vows as Lord Commandor. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what GRRM comes up with!

[redriver]

Melisandra, on 18 April 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

^ @Rockroi - you are welcome to your own opinion, but Stannis is the one that told Massey that he may hear rumors of his death. Why would he say that unless he was formulating some plan? I do not think Stannis is an idiot. He's a brilliant strategist and it would be to his benefit to have Jon as Lord Stark of Winterfell. He's already said it. Jon turned him down and he wasn't happy about it. This would be the only way Stannis could get Jon to break his vows as Lord Commandor. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what GRRM comes up with!

I don't think Stannis knows about the Mance-Rattleshirt swap?

[alienarea]

What IMHO is another indication for the letter not having been written by Ramsay is the fact that Jon reads it loud to the wildlings and NW gathered in the shield hall. The result apart from his assassination is that the wildlings want to ride to Winterfell. Speculation: That is what Mance wanted to achieve and the letter pushed the right buttons in Jon.

Not sure what happens after Jon goes down, but if there isn't a fight at the wall between wildlings and the NW I guess the NW would rather have the wildlings go to Winterfell anyway.

Ramsay isn't that stupid, he surely doesn't want to be attacked by another army even if he should have bested Stannis.

Edited by alienarea, 18 April 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[Feather Crystal]

redriver, on 18 April 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't think Stannis knows about the Mance-Rattleshirt swap?

When Stannis left the Wall he did not know about the swap, but the Theon chapter is a jump. He could have learned about the swap. To me the letter serves two purposes for Stannis: 1) to get Jon to break his vows and rally the North to his cause, and 2) to gain access into Winterfell disguised as Manderley/Frey forces.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Melisandra, on 18 April 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

^ @Rockroi - you are welcome to your own opinion, but Stannis is the one that told Massey that he may hear rumors of his death. Why would he say that unless he was formulating some plan? I do not think Stannis is an idiot. He's a brilliant strategist and it would be to his benefit to have Jon as Lord Stark of Winterfell. He's already said it. Jon turned him down and he wasn't happy about it. This would be the only way Stannis could get Jon to break his vows as Lord Commandor. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what GRRM comes up with!

Straight up, when they write the letter to all the Lords at the beginning of ACOK about Stannis being the true king and the twincest whoever is writing the letter says Jaime Lannister and Stannis interrupts him and says Ser Jaime Lannister, the Kinglasyer. Add that because whatever he maybe he is a kingslayer but still a knight, I don't lie. Something along those lines, so I don't think he would lie about the letter IMHO

[Rockroi]

Quote

Rockroi - you are welcome to your own opinion,

Why thank you; would you like it if I gave you your opinion instead?

Quote

but Stannis is the one that told Massey that he may hear rumors of his death. Why would he say that unless he was formulating some plan?

All that means is that Stannis could be planning something that fakes his own death; its a complete leap of faith to then say "and therefroe he will write a; letter to Jon Snow where he lies about his death directly and says a whole bunch of stuff that is just kinda nuts."  One does not = the other.

Quote

I do not think Stannis is an idiot. He's a brilliant strategist and it would be to his benefit to have Jon as Lord Stark of Winterfell. He's already said it. Jon turned him down and he wasn't happy about it. This would be the only way Stannis could get Jon to break his vows as Lord Commandor.

What?  How does getting Jon to go to Winterfell make Jon Lord of Winetrfell?  Its not like a crazy game of freeze-tag where once Jon goes there he must stay there forever!  He literally would just have to turn around.  Plan. Foiled.

Look, its perfectly possible that that letter is from Mance.  I can see that.  However, its also equally possible (if not moreso) that the letter is from Ramsey.  I do not think any theory discussed here is foreclosed on.  But we have to limit ourselves to the evidence. And the evidence for Stannis writing that letter is scant.

Edited by Rockroi, 19 April 2012 - 05:55 AM.

[fassreiter]

What about Theon, then? I don't think Mance or Stannis wrote the letter, neither as a code nor as a trick, mostly because there is no conclusive theory on how/why/to which ends anyone of them would do such a thing (and the claim that is often used as an explanation for why the letter couldn't have been written by Ramsay, that is, he wouldn't want to have an army of wildlings marching on Winterfell, is invalid for the same reason that applies to the claim that Mance would want exactly that: Mance doesn't know about Tormund's army of 3000 wildlings when he leaves for Winterfell, so Ramsay doesn't know either - unless a spy is involved, for which there is no evidence either).

But I am not happy leaving the letter to Ramsay's authorship, so there is Theon to consider. He has two lines in this new chapter that are like quotations from the letter (He wants his bride back, he wants his Reek back or something like that). He knows how Ramsay thinks and talks, he is connected to all people mentioned in the letter,and he is in trouble right now, too, so he has a motive of some kind. I don't know what his intentions could be, though. Thoughts?

[redxavier]

MikeDC, on 18 April 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

I can believe the letter is written by Mance. I can believe it's written by Stannis. But it makes pretty much no sense to think it's written by Ramsay

Hmm.. I think those alternative authors make absolutely no sense.

I think people are overanalysing this, it's a letter written by an emotionally unstable Ramsay containing lies. If it was written by someone else as part of an elaborate ruse, I'd think much less of GRRM's writing skills to attempt to pull something so implausible. He's not Mamet.

Edited by redxavier, 19 April 2012 - 05:54 AM.

[MikeDC]

A couple points about the prior Ramsay Bolton letter (to Asha) and comparisons to the letter to Jon

• This letter is noted as written in "a huge, spikey hand" (the letter to Jon is not)
  
• The dried blood in which Ramsay writes is brown (the Jon letter is pink, which seems like fake blood)
  
• It's not full of lies or incoherent at all
  
• It's got a piece of skin, Ramsay's calling card (the Jon letter talks a good game about skinning people, but doesn't include any skin)
  
• It's co-signed by several other Northern lords (the Jon letter is not, despite the fact that there are plenty of others present)
  
• The revealed thrust of the letter is what I'd expect from Ramsay's character... we're coming to kick your ass. Flee before me. (the Jon letter is all "give me what I want, and I'll leave you alone")

A few random thoughts about this:

• It seems very possible that Ramsay Bolton is barely lettered. The first, co-authored letter in the "huge, spikey hand" could have been written at the instigation and guidance of the other signing lords, who would rather the Ironborn just flee than have to spend the precious resources fighting them.
  
• Ramsay, if left to his own devices, could probably not write in the first place, and would not write a letter asking people to flee or conduct an exchange when him when a showy and violent batch of murder would do. Ramsay isn't emotionally unstable. He's steadily vicious and evil.
  
• In reading over the Theon chapter again, I see that Stannis is already writing in blood. But... I'd guess this is evidence against him being the author, because presumably his blood would dry to the same sort of dark brown that blood dries to. Blood doesn't dry pink.
  
• The author of the Jon letter notably shies away from the most disgusting aspects of Ramsay's character exactly when we would expect Ramsay to be putting them on display. That is, Ramsay is pissed, just skinned six women, and previously sends off a letter full of skin and written in blood. If anything, the letter to Jon should be at least as disgusting, written in Mance/Stannis/Spearwife blood and full of skin. But it's not...
  
• ... it's as if the author is really trying to pull off the appearance of a Ramsay Bolton letter, but just can't bring themselves to do it. So the author fakes the blood and omits the skin.
  
• Someone I haven't heard mentioned as a possible author is the recipient of the first letter- Asha. It strikes me that it's at least plausible she might be the author.

Asha as the author:

• She was disgusted by the blood and her brother's skin, so she might be expected to omit that.
  
• She's been given relative freedom since her capture by Stannis.
  
• She's been plenty deceptive before (although it involved getting groped by her brother)
  
• She could have deduced everything she needed to know to write the letter from talking to Theon (the info about Reek, Mance and the spearwives, etc) on one hand and Massey and other Stannis men on the other (the presence of Jon, Mel and the Queen on the wall, the burning of Mance)
  
• She'd have motive and desperation. She can't hope to win by battle, and she doesn't seem happy with the prospect of being married off, unwillingly, to one of his lords. By showing Stannis a liar who's letting Mance go, she may be able to create an exploitable division with the North, which would be furthered by the arrival of Jon Snow.
  
• Further, she seems pretty intent on Theon at least getting a "clean" Northern death instead of getting burned, and up until the end of the Theon gift chapter, it seems clear that he's headed toward being a R'hllor sacrifice. So if she authored the letter prior to the Theon chapter, she'd be additionally motivated to get the North involved against Stannis.

[fassreiter]

Interesting thoughts about Asha.

About the pink letter:

1. It is not described in what kindof hand it is written. It could be the same hand that wrote the letter to Jon and Asha before, but we don't know. GRRM does not elaborate at all on the letter's outward appearance.
2. This is why we don't even know if the letter was written in blood or ink. Tormund's remark about having a pot of ink and being able to write about anything he wished hints at the fact that it was written in ink.
3. Therefore, no mention is made of any 'pink' blood. The name 'pink letter' is not used in the books, it is a term that was created by the internet community. It refers to the pink sealing wax the Boltons use and which is smeared on the letter.

[Feather Crystal]

Rockroi, on 18 April 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Why thank you; would you like it if I gave you your opinion instead?

Ah...lets not get snippy now! I was trying to be polite!

Quote

All that means is that Stannis could be planning something that fakes his own death; its a complete leap of faith to then say "and therefroe he will write a; letter to Jon Snow where he lies about his death directly and says a whole bunch of stuff that is just kinda nuts."  One does not = the other.

What?  How does getting Jon to go to Winterfell make Jon Lord of Winetrfell?  Its not like a crazy game of freeze-tag where once Jon goes there he must stay there forever!  He literally would just have to turn around.  Plan. Foiled.

Look, its perfectly possible that that letter is from Mance.  I can see that.  However, its also equally possible (if not moreso) that the letter is from Ramsey.  I do not think any theory discussed here is foreclosed on.  But we have to limit ourselves to the evidence. And the evidence for Stannis writing that letter is scant.

Stannis knows that only extraordinary circumstances will get him what he needs. He is in dire straights at his encampment in the snow. He has to enflame Jon enough to break his vows and rally the North to go to Winterfell. If he breaks his vows, Stannis would have a much better chance at getting Jon to accept his offer of legitimacy and becoming Lord of Winterfell, which Stannis believes is key to his success. Stannis doesn't believe that there is anyone else that could rally the North other than Jon.

The second purpose of the letter is as a Trojan Horse. If Roose believes the letter is true, he would open the gates for any returning men, believing them to be Manderley, Frey or perhaps even Ramsay's forces.

[Stargareyen]

Melisandra, on 19 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Ah...lets not get snippy now! I was trying to be polite!



Stannis knows that only extraordinary circumstances will get him what he needs. He is in dire straights at his encampment in the snow. He has to enflame Jon enough to break his vows and rally the North to go to Winterfell. If he breaks his vows, Stannis would have a much better chance at getting Jon to accept his offer of legitimacy and becoming Lord of Winterfell, which Stannis believes is key to his success. Stannis doesn't believe that there is anyone else that could rally the North other than Jon.

The second purpose of the letter is as a Trojan Horse. If Roose believes the letter is true, he would open the gates for any returning men, believing them to be Manderley, Frey or perhaps even Ramsay's forces.

However dire the conditions, Stannis would not stoop to levels as low as this letter to trigger Jon to do something against his principles. Mance, on the other hand, being a wildling and not really a fan of Jon, can be thought of as a author. This is the best way he could have communicated back to Melisandre since Jon would read all the letters brought back by ravens. Mel will nurse back Jon to health and in return expect him to follow her cues. The rebellion of the Night's Watch could be suppressed by more of her magic tricks, probably she will give birth to few more shadows

[Rockroi]

Quote

A couple points about the prior Ramsay Bolton letter (to Asha) and comparisons to the letter to Jon

This letter is noted as written in "a huge, spikey hand" (the letter to Jon is not)

Untrue; the writing on the letter Jon received is never clarified.  COuld be huge spikey hand; could be small and impeccably neat.  We dont know.

Quote

The dried blood in which Ramsay writes is brown (the Jon letter is pink, which seems like fake blood)

The writing is not pink, the seal is pink.  Jon does not describe the writing.

Quote

It's not full of lies or incoherent at all

If Ramsey believes what he is writing is true than neither is this letter.  We also do not know what else the letter says- all we know is that it started out saying Moat Cailen had fallen and ended by demanding the lords leave "or else." Who knows what Asha's letter said in between.

Quote

It's got a piece of skin, Ramsay's calling card (the Jon letter talks a good game about skinning people, but doesn't include any skin)

Agreed.  I pointed this out and thought it was unusual that Ramsey WOULD NOT send a peice of skin.  However, if he HAD sent a peice of skin wouldn't people just say "well, maybe its a peice of skin from one of the dead."

Quote

It's co-signed by several other Northern lords (the Jon letter is not, despite the fact that there are plenty of others present)

Actually, no.  Many of the Lords started to ride to meet Stannis so they are not present.  Also, the letter to Jon is far more personal; its sent to him to demand that Ramsey get back what he wants; its nota  directive from the North.  And for good reason; the North does not want to fight the Night's Watch.

Quote

The revealed thrust of the letter is what I'd expect from Ramsay's character... we're coming to kick your ass. Flee before me. (the Jon letter is all "give me what I want, and I'll leave you alone")

Actually they sound remarkably similar.  Both letters hurl threats and invectives at the reciepientl both letters contain admonishments to not meddle in his affairs; both demand surrender of one type or another.

Quote

It seems very possible that Ramsay Bolton is barely lettered. The first, co-authored letter in the "huge, spikey hand" could have been written at the instigation and guidance of the other signing lords, who would rather the Ironborn just flee than have to spend the precious resources fighting them.

Does Ramsey Bolton strike you as a man who would take dictation?  Really?  Why would he writei t and notht anyone else?  There is no evidence that Ramsey cannot read or write; even "barely lettered" would mean he is more than capable of sending the letter Jon recieved.

Quote

Ramsay, if left to his own devices, could probably not write in the first place, and would not write a letter asking people to flee or conduct an exchange when him when a showy and violent batch of murder would do. Ramsay isn't emotionally unstable. He's steadily vicious and evil.

Except that he DID write in the first place (to Asha).  And I think Ramsey's second letter is filled with viciousness and evil, not so much instability.

Quote

In reading over the Theon chapter again, I see that Stannis is already writing in blood. But... I'd guess this is evidence against him being the author, because presumably his blood would dry to the same sort of dark brown that blood dries to. Blood doesn't dry pink.

No idea what this means.  The writing on the letter is not pink.

Quote

The author of the Jon letter notably shies away from the most disgusting aspects of Ramsay's character exactly when we would expect Ramsay to be putting them on display. That is, Ramsay is pissed, just skinned six women, and previously sends off a letter full of skin and written in blood. If anything, the letter to Jon should be at least as disgusting, written in Mance/Stannis/Spearwife blood and full of skin. But it's not...

Wiat, are you saying that after bragging about killing Stannois and six woemn and insulting JOn and describing improisoning Mance etc...and in skinning 6 women... that Ramsey's letter isn't vile enough?  I mean what did you want it to say, "I have killed all these poeple and now I am going to start killing puppies!"  Really?

Quote

... it's as if the author is really trying to pull off the appearance of a Ramsay Bolton letter, but just can't bring themselves to do it. So the author fakes the blood and omits the skin.

I don't think the letter had either.

Quote

Someone I haven't heard mentioned as a possible author is the recipient of the first letter- Asha. It strikes me that it's at least plausible she might be the author.

At this point who ISN't the author?  Have we eliminated the Damphyre?  Is Doran Martell still in the running?  Could Arya have written it?  Syrio?  What about Rhaegar?  Seriously, who Won'T be put forward as the author at this point?

Here are some of my own points:

-Eat your heart.  I find it interesting that in the heat of the moment, he threatened to "eat your heart."  Interesting... Oh, what was that?  Who am I talking about?  Well, I speak of Khrazz who said to Barristan Selmy “Old man. I will eat your heart.” (Martin, George R.R. (2011-07-12). A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (p. 884). Bantam. Kindle Edition).  So, is Khrazz or Selmy the warg?  Please, I need to know this....

-Codebreaker.  When Jon is reading the letter to a packed house Mel is there.  If she thinks that letter is in code, how come she does not say a word?  Not so much as a peep!  If she thought that letter was ONE thing and Jon Snow thinks its ANOTHER and was taking active steps to act on a misinterpretation... how come Mel does not intervene?  Is just just an asshole?

-One last thing: The letter is signed by Ramsey Bolton who signs it "Trueborn Lord of Winterfell" a clear slap in Jon's face as Jon is NOT a trueborn lord of Winetrfell.  Its got his seal, it sounds like him and it accurtaely describes all the events the reader witnessed.  Here is my question:

What could that letter have said that would make you suspect it WAS writen by Ramsey?  In other words, is there ANYTHING that that letter could have contained that would make you think, "That could be Ramsey"?  Because right now, the man's signature, his hysterical hatred, his desire to recapture Reek, his need to lash out, etc.none of it is enough.  To me, I think that letter could have said, "This is Ramsey Bolton, formerly Ramsey Snow; this is NOT Mance Ryder!  This letter is NOT writen in an elaborate code!  This letter is 100% true!... etc"  And you would say, "That sounds just like something Mance would say....

Edited by Rockroi, 19 April 2012 - 10:48 AM.