281 replies to this topic

[Serie]

Cincinnatus, on 18 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Arya swore that she wouldn't kill Sansa in the first book.

sorry, I thought you were referring to the "FM can't kill people they know" part.

[Grand Duke De Nobcheese]

Cincinnatus, on 18 January 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Arya swore that she wouldn't kill Sansa in the first book.

She could break her promise.........

[thetitansbastard]

Cincinnatus, on 18 January 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

two things I think will happen that are implied from foreshadowing. Littlefinger will higher a faceless man to kill sansa (he mentions in the first  book the cost of killing a princess with them. Sansa is a princess and set up to royally screw him over in some form.)

Arya promised never to kill her sister. The Faceless men don't have sisters.  take from that what you will.

Interesting, perhaps they will send Arya and she won't go through with it and they will off Littlefinger?  We know that she is maybe capable of having the FM think that she is ready, but deep down remembers.  Its a longshot but thats not bad as far as out on a limb theories go

It is stated somewhere about FM not killing anyone they "know", but that is a bit ambiguous considering the training curriculum we've seen

[Lady Candace]

My end of series predictions:

Tyrion Lannister:
Probably alive, hello plot armor and GRRM's favorite character status! It's debatable where his personality will be in terms of good/bad, mopey/adjusted.

Jon Snow:
Either he or Daenerys are going to die, if not both. Both will not live, not in this story. Of them I think Jon is more likely to bite the bullet.

Arya Stark:
I JUST DON'T KNOW! Goddamn Arya, stop getting into scary situations! You make me feel as if you will die, and that is cruel but maybe you wouldn't want to live in a world without Jon. Ughhh.

Sansa Stark:
I think there have been small things in her chapters that seem to indicate a long-term plan for Sansa, one that would require her to be alive. It is debateable if she'll be a Lady, a Queen, or untitled, but I think GRRM intends to keep her alive... and gods since he seems to want to kill off the rest of my favorite characters it would be nice if he left me at least ONE.

Bran Stark:
Alive as a tree, most likely, replacing Bloodraven's spot. Small shot of him coming back to be Lord of WF, but that possibility seems more and more crackpot to me each time I read his chapters. Frankly put, I think he's too far out of reach to be attacked and killed by someone.

Davos Seaworth:
Davos and Stannis remind me of Dunk and Egg in a vague way, and I think the ending will be the same. If they go down, they both go down. It'll probably be tragic, damn you GRRM for probably killin off my favorite male characters!

Theon Greyjoy:
Dead and at peace.

Asha Greyjoy:
Alive, and probably in a ruling position.

Brienne of Tarth: I think her, Jaime, and Cersei are all going down by the end of the series. Neither seems to have a future without someone else of the three alive, and they all seem on collision courses ending in a tragic death (depth of tragedy being related to how much the reader may or may not care about the person). I think Cersei's prophecy will come true, with her end. Brienne probably does something related to Jaime or dies for an oath, I would not much be surprised. Jaime is the valonquar, will die trying to reclaim honor, or be a victim of Lady Stoneheart (which I actually think is unlikely).

Samwell Tarly:
Almost dead certain he's going to be alive and ruling the citadel or being a Grand Maester. PLEASE TAKE A CELIBACY VOW, SAM! no more ....fat... pink... mast...please, think of the children!

Cersei Lannister: see "Brienne"

Jaime Lannister: see "Brienne"

Daenerys Targaryen:
Dead, or ruling. I also think at least one of her or Jon is going to die, if not both. I SINCERELY doubt both will live. One or both has to go. The world is not big enough.

Areo Hotah:
I don't see Oreo Hotwings / Areo Hotah lasting much longer than Doran does, to be honest.

Arianne Martell:
I give her half-half odds. I still think she's in some danger based on what she's doing at the beginning of TWOW, or rather, who she is around, she could be come a hostage and that is a bad situation in these novels.

Jon Connington:
He has grayscale, which bodes ill, and his purpose seems to be giving us a POV window into Aegon while we don't have one, because Tyrion isn't with them, and they aren't in the general vicinity of a different POV. Once one shows up, I think most of JC's purpose will be served. Once that has happened and he has fulfilled his duty to Aegon, he can go to the afterlife and be with his boyfriend Rhaegar.

Aeron Greyjoy:
Partially wishful thinking... ... but also genuinely think he will go down. Probably fails trying to fight Euron in some way, or dies unleashing something mystical. Maybe............A KRAKEN!!!

Victarion Greyjoy:
Dead, probably dies fighting.   (I don't have an unnatural love of the , I swear!.........nope, I was going to put it again, but I have restraint)

Barristan Selmy:
He is older, and he said all the way back in the earlier end of the series he would die a knight. I believe he will.

Melisandre:
She will probably get caught up in one of a few things. Either Stannis fails and she goes down on that ship. Someone who wants to suceeds in killing her, or some sort of magic perhaps during the battle with the Others she is felled. Finally, she could very well die in the confines of her own religion, acting as Nissa Nissa to someone (probably Stannis, perhaps Jon if the story turns that way). Ironic ending would be if she is burned by a dragon.


SO THAT IS...

Dead: Jon, Arya, Davos, Theon, Brienne, Cersei, Jaime, Areo Hotah, Jon Connington, Aeron, Victarion, Barristan, Melisandre.

Alive: Tyrion, Sansa, Bran, Asha, Samwell, Daenerys (maybe), & Arianne.

It is looking bleak.

[Corvinus]

Tyrion Lannister   sad to say I don't think he will make it to the end; his current drive to get his revenge on his siblings will be the death of him
Jon Snow - he's not dead, and he'll make it
Arya Stark - not sure; she may die or she may completely lose her identity
Sansa Stark - probably will make it
Bran Stark - not sure, similar to Arya
Davos Seaworth - despite the fact that he constantly thinks of his family, he has survived so far, quite surprisingly; he'll make it
Theon Greyjoy - the bastard will make it
Asha Greyjoy - probably killed by Theon or Euron
Brienne of Tarth - killed by Jaime
Samwell Tarly - somehow he will make it
Cersei Lannister - Maggy's prophecy will come true
Jaime Lannister - he'll make it showing that the whole twin connection with Cersei was meaningless in the end
Daenerys Targaryen - not sure
Areo Hotah - not sure, but when Doran dies there won't be much use for him
Arienne Martell - to me it seems like the Martells are the second most tragic family after the Starks
Jon Connington - first POV we knew was going to die from his first chapter
Aeron Greyjoy - the guy is a loon; he won't last much longer
Victarion Greyjoy - don't see how he can make it; he is as selfish as any character, but not as clever as others
Barristan Selmy - not sure
Melisandre - too many mistakes; the gods remember

Edited by Corvinus, 18 January 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[salt]

Someone's POV can end without them dying.  I wouldnt be surprised if we see no more Areo Hotah POV chapters, but I'm not sure hes really important enough to demand a death.

[Fred Baratheon]

I get the feeling that POV characters who have shown character flaws prior to this--Jaimie, Selmy and Theon specifically--will die valiantly to redeem themselves and I think that characters who have yet to do anything great--Samwell, Arya, Hotah...well not Hotah--will live on so that they can do surprisingly great things.

[Arkash]

Quote

Aeron Greyjoy:
Partially wishful thinking... ... but also genuinely think he will go down. Probably fails trying to fight Euron in some way, or dies unleashing something mystical. Maybe............A KRAKEN!!!

Damn, imagine a fight between Euron and all his knowledge and skills and a Kraken... Euron'd win I guess! ^^

[KingK]

As long as Arya lives, I'll be able to carry on.

If Arya dies I will walk inside GRRM's house and personally knock over his magazine rack, throw a copy of the book against the wall, yell some expletives, and walk out.

[The Mother of The Others]

Good topic.   Others have done a good job of picking the wrestlemania winners and losers.   I'd just add that killing POVs off isn't the only way to cut down the clutter.  Larger groups of main characters might start gathering together to include everybody without as many POVs.  The Greyjoys, for instance, may all start working on the same scheme, so Damphair would just be seen summoning kraken in the background of Asha's POV as The Reader holds up the spell book for Aeron and Theon takes a shower off to the side of the ship using sea water so his stink doesn't scare off the kraken.   Jaime & Brienne could fold into one (non-sexually)---perhaps add even more people to form an entire squad of hero types who could rally together to turn the tide, while we wonder which of them is AA.  (Get all the potential AA's in the same place to audition, like how they have that group sing-off week on American Idle.)

[Fey]

If any of the Starks die then If any of them do die, I hope it's in the last book (and I hope it's anyone but Sansa )

As much as I'd love for Brienne and Jaime to make sweet love and have babies, I can definitely see one or both of them die. And I definitely don't see the series ending with Cersei living.

Dany, Jon, and Tyrion could go either way, but I think it's wayyy too optimistic to think all three of them will make it to the end. I think the three will at least make it to the final book.

[Rapsie]

Tyrion Lannister: may possibly die in the final book, but his plot armour seems to be made of adamantium.
Jon Snow: Die or left bitter. He and Dany can't both live.
Arya Stark: Dead in the last book. Right at the end. In the snow. With needle in her hand. Killed by the Kindly man. For trying to leave Hotel California.
Sansa Stark: By the end of the song: Queen or living in the Fingers as Alyane Stone.
Bran Stark: Right where he is now. Only alone.
Davos Seaworth: Alive.....oh please alive. Even if only for one more book.
Theon Greyjoy: Dies. But puts an arrow or two through Ramsay first.
Asha Greyjoy: Not sure
Brienne of Tarth: Dead
Samwell Tarly: Maester
Cersei Lannister: Dead, but in the next book.
Jaime Lannister:Dead
Daenerys Targaryen: May finally land in Westeros and then die in the last book. Probably in childbirth.
Areo Hotah: Will die in the last book. POV for the Sand Snakes in KL.
Arienne Martell: Dead
Jon Connington: Dead
Aeron Greyjoy: Dead. In next book.
Victarion Greyjoy: Dead: Dragon Snackette.
Barristan Selmy: I think he will be needed in KL before he dies.
Melisandre: Dead: Life essence bringing back Jon.


Special mention:

Stannis: Hand of the King

[Reeahlia Sand]

Characters I think will die POV and others:

Victarion
Euron
Stannis
Davos
Selmy
UnCat
Sandor
Petyr
Doran
Jorah
Cersei
Theon
Ramsay
Roose
Walder Frey
Robert Strong
Biter
Mel
Jon Connington
Aegon

Edited by Reeahlia Sand, 19 January 2012 - 01:48 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Tyrion Lannister: Might die eventually but not in WoW
Jon Snow: Might die eventually but not in WoW
Arya Stark: Might die eventually but not in WoW
Sansa Stark: Will probably survive
Bran Stark: I can see him dying or turning into a tree
Davos Seaworth: I want him to survive and actually think he will
Theon Greyjoy: I don't see him making it; could very well die in WoW
Asha Greyjoy: I actually think she'll survive
Brienne of Tarth: One of my picks to die
Samwell Tarly: Will probably survive
Cersei Lannister: One of my picks to die
Jaime Lannister: One of my picks to die
Daenerys Targaryen: Might die eventually but not in WoW
Areo Hotah: This POV would be an easy one to ax
Arianne Martell: Could die eventually but I think he'll keep a Martell POV
Jon Connington: I'm expecting him to die in WoW
Aeron Greyjoy: Also expecting him to die in WoW; too many Greyjoys
Victarion Greyjoy: I think he's doomed in the long run but not sure when
Barristan Selmy: I think he'll die defending Meereen
Melisandre: Might die but not yet

So adding up:

My Picks to Die in WoW: Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, Theon, Areo, Connington, Aeron, Barristan

People Who Might Die But Not Now: Tyrion, Jon, Arya, Bran, Dany, Arianne, Victarion, Melisandre

People Who I Think Will Make It: Sansa, Davos, Asha, Sam

Edited by Apple Martini, 19 January 2012 - 01:47 AM.

[Reeahlia Sand]

I have a feeling Jaime will live and redeem himself. Or maybe he will redeem myself and die a la Boromir.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

I'm being optimistic: All the Stark children will make it, yeah, Jon included the Greyjoys are gonna die, all of them except Asha probably. Stannis and Melisandre, down, Davos will survive and will go back home with his wife and kids. Daenerys, dead, dead, very dead (sorry, can't help it) Jaime will die probably after Cersei. Tyrion will survive. Brienne lives. LF and Varys, dead. Jon Con, dead. Arianne lives, Doran dies and so does ser barristan. Samwell lives. All remaining direwolves live (they better).

[Winter's Lady]

I don't think narrowing down the POVs necessarily means that they have to die. Some could meet up and just merge into one POV (The Mother of the Others said it more eloquently^^). Others might just disappear and never be spoken of again(Aeron, Areo...please???) and we just hear about them from other perspectives.
I also think only one of the "great three" will live in the end, my hopes are on Jon, but he seems to be the tragic hero who sacrifices himself for the greater good in the end...ugh say it ain't so!
Also likely to die IMHO are Theon (and that would be a mercy for the poor guy right now, oh I just had a crackpot idea..must think more about it), Cersei, Brienne. Probably a hell of a lot more but I'm too lazy to think of more right now.

[Son of Jon Snarkgaryen]

Sorry to burst your bubble people, but although TWOW being a bloodbath would be awesome in so many ways, and really cool to see, you're all forgetting one very, very important thing.  GRRM is starting to group his characters together again, meaning he can tell the stories of more than one character (POV character or otherwise) at a time even though it's only one POV character's chapter.  This way, he can kill two birds (or three or four) with one stone, so to speak.

Grouped-together possibilities, numbered by POV's necessary:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jon, Mel, and Bran, Coldhands, Bloodraven, CotF, the Others, Benjen (maybe), Meera and Jojen as well, could all potentially share one chapter (or one set of chapters), told from the POV of any one of them, if they all have dialogue - a certain amount of insight can be determined into a character even if we are not reading ther POV and "hearing" their thoughts

Tyrion, Dany, Jorah, Barristan, Victarion (if GRRM has all five of these characters, for example, meeting in a room and sharing dialogue, he takes awaay the need for a POV chapter for each of them explaining their perspective of said meeting)

Asha, Theon, Stannis, and maybe the Winterfell folk as well (Ramsay, Roose, etc...), if they bring war to Stannis' holdfast

Sansa, Littlefinger

Brienne, Jaime, Un!Cat

Cersei, Lady Nym, Tyene, Un!Gregor, Margaery, Tommen, Mace, Randyll, the High Septon, Qyburn, Varys, Bronn, Shagga

Samwell, Jaqen H'ghar, Alleras/Sarella

Arianne, Jon Connington, YG/Aegon VI, Loras

Doran, Areo, Myrcella

Davos, Rickon, Osha

Wyman Manderly, Mance, Roose, Ramsay

the Blackfish, Jeyne Westerling (with baby Robb Jr. ), Raynald Westerling (wishful thinking)

Howland Reed, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover

Euron, Garlan (maybe)

Aeron

Arya

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So as you can see, I have separated the groups of characters into, well, separate groups.  16 groups to be precise - basically by geographic location.  GRRM said that the divide we saw between AFFC and ADWD would end in ADWD, but all that means is that we won't have major characters left out again.  It could still mean having separate groups separated by large geographic distances, as we've seen ever since AGOT.  If TWOW proves to be a long book, and GRRM keeps each of his chapters under the 15 or 20 page range average, then there could be approximately three chapters per set of characters (locations), theoretically.

As far as I can tell, the only two characters who are, strictly speaking, geographically limited to not sharing chapters with other major (or even minor, but beloved) characters, are Aeron and Arya, simply because no one else is near where they are.

Maybe there won't be a bloodbath at all.  After all, isn't a climactic "bloodbath" book (or chapter) of a series too much like typical fantasy?  In all fantasy (LotR, H.P. Lovecraft, etc...), even Young Adult stuff (see Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games, Narnia, etc...), there's always a "showdown" of some kind, before the very last chapter, or before the very last book.  Isn't that kind of cliche?  Some sort of "all hell breaks loose" battle.....?

Don't we love GRRM because he doesn't do the typical?  There's no guarantee that anyone will die in TWOW at all.


Poke holes in it if you want, but there's no denying my theory makes sense.

[LuisDantas]

Cincinnatus, on 18 January 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I have a feeling that roughly half of these are going to  be dead by the end of the eighth book. Any bets on who?

I don't know that "culling" means killing them necessarily.

But about those names:



Those who are likely to survive all the way to the end

Tyrion Lannister
Jon Snow
Arya Stark
Sansa Stark
Bran Stark
Davos Seaworth
Samwell Tarly
Jaime Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Connington (mainly because we need his POV to folow his group)



Those who I hope will die soon



Those who are likely to die

Theon Greyjoy
Asha Greyjoy (I have a hunch she won't, however)
Brienne of Tarth
Cersei Lannister - nearly certain about her
Aeron Greyjoy - not much for him to do at this point
Victarion Greyjoy
Barristan Selmy
Melisandre - her survival odds were never great, and she does little to improve them


Those who may well simply cease to be POV characters

Areo Hotah
Arianne Martell - I bet she will no longer be a POV, or at least not often.

[Solaris]

Tyrion Lannister- Will get Casterly Rock and in charge of mini Daenerys (brotha is just too smart to not be needed) yes he finds where whores go and Tysha who turns out to be (much to Tyrions JOY) a bastard daughter of Lord Tarbeck she is legitimised, they marry AGAIN have 9 children.

Jon Snow - Puts a bun in Dany's oven but is king on the otherside of the wall

Arya Stark - MIA, after she finishes her hit list it will end with "all they found was needle in the snow and foot prints leading off into the sunset" she is a faceless woman you never know when she will pop up - a reliable source says she has been seen hanging around storms end...

Sansa Stark - will stay married to Tyrion for political reasons for a short time but an annulment is sought by both parties whilst she is in Winterfell  helping raise Rickon, Tommen and Robert Arryn. She becomes Queen of everything, by some excellent manouvering taught to her by LF. She marries Wyllas Tyrell although who is the father of her 4 children is questionable.....

Bran Stark - ghost in the trees fo eva!
Davos Seaworth - retires with his missus and kids when stannis keels over
Theon Greyjoy - ran like the bitch he is with fake Arya into the wilderness where they die of old age (I did this for Jeyne, I feel sorry for her she needs some tenderness and after being abused like that only Theon can understand)

Asha Greyjoy - Will rule the Iron Isle with a big fat iron woman fist she will probably marry someone from the north to seal pacts
Brienne of Tarth - death by ambush number 10 escorting Sansa, Arya, Sandor the monk ( ), injured Jamie and the head of the frankengregor to Catelyn
Rickon Stark - Lord of Winterfell marries a Skagos woman has 9 kids also
Samwell Tarly - Grand Maester on the Wall
Cersei Lannister - WIll be raped and killed by Tyrion
Jaime Lannister - Will die defending Tommen when Dany eventually takes KL will have the most epic entry in the white book, entered in by Barristan himself! There shall be a shrine in his honor which exhonorates him for all time for offing Dany's daddyo.

Daenerys Targaryen - Will die giving birth to Jon Snows baby, this nameless lump of pink squalling flesh shall be a KING but of what we do not know!? Nah, this is our new Lord of Dragonstone.
Areo Hotah - just dead
Arienne Martell - dead after marrying Aegon-who-got-nowhere-in-the-end-because-of-his-undead-army-Targaryen
Jon Connington - death by greyscale not before unleashing nasty grey army in westeros however he lives on in memory as that lovely garden ornament under the 1/2 dead weirwood tree back home.

Aeron Greyjoy - death by kraken
Victarion Greyjoy - death by dragon
Barristan Selmy - dies of old old old age raising Daenery's child on Dragonstone whilst teaching the boy to joust (he said he wanted to die a knight so sue me)
Melisandre - death by Ghost
Stannis - dead from too much shadow making however Stannis hired army arrives in time for the war at the wall
Shireen - walking dead.
Selyse - bye bye back to the Florents but is beaten, publicly humilated then exiled for attempting to burn the septs and wierwoods in her locale. Last seen on a ship heading to Asshai.

Catelyn - will die PERMANENT LIKE after every single person that had a hand in the destruction of her family are butchered BUT not before she finds Ned's bones and walks her arse back to Winterfell, commissions a statue that looks like her and gets into her own grave unassisted. (its the least she can do considering the trouble she has caused)

Robert Arryn - dies at 18 falling out of his moon door whilst having one of his fits   survived by his suffering Skagos clan wife (who is Rickon's wife's sister) and twin boys (most excellent marriages arranged by Sansa).

Littlefinger - death by Sansa & Arya simultaniously all lands and title go to Robert Arryn as his 'step son' and only heir (mwuahahaha)
Euron Greyjoy - got fresh with Dany resulted in death by Drogon or even Jorah... bit o both really
Jorah - Death by Jon Snow, but gets his message about his dad whilst Jon is sticking him with the pointy end of longclaw
Aegon - killed by accident was gonna be king
Tommen - goes with Sansa he will never marry but has a good mate called Ser Eric the Wonderful
Myrcella - returns to Westeros and becomes a Septa and is then employed by Tyrion to raise his brood.
Sandor - is Sansa's personal body guard fo eva and eva
Varys - will remain the keeper of whispers
Boltons - all dead executed by Nymeria's super pack, stripped of title and lands handed over to the Manderleys
Frey's - mostly butchered by the outlaws by order of Catelyn the undead, stripped of all lands, they get to keep their title just to rub it in but all children become wards to more honorable houses namely STARK & TULLY bannermen (now that's what I call payback) no children are harmed as a result of this decision.
Tully's - restored all lands and given the twins
Benjen Stark - is the KING of the OTHERS and he may or may not be dead
Penny - pale mare....
Gendry - is legitimised in appreciation of his efforts in the war, he gets a purple heart and all lands and title awarded he gathers all his little siblings still alive and they live happily ever after.....
Daario - death by Jorah
any man that remotely looks at dany - death by Jorah
Nymeria - last seen with her pack and Arya in the vicinity of the stormlands.
Ghost - finds another direlady they have puppies and there is just enough of them out of all the litters they have till death to go to every single Stark child including a very special surprise for Sansa (can I get an aaaawwwwwww ty)

Just sayin.................................................... it would be nice

Edited by Solaris, 19 January 2012 - 11:10 AM.