21 replies to this topic

[the seventh direwolf]

Hi!

I have a question:  When Arya was given the choice of three people to be murdered by Jaquen, why did she say Jaquen H'ghar as her third choice? *confused*  I would have thought she'd say someone obvious like Joffrey Lannister or his mother  Cersi Lannister.  Sorry if the answer is obvious, I just couldn't work it out lol.

Thanks!

[Jon Snow's Bastard]

She was blackmailing him.  He would only give her a death, she wanted a prison break.  She said his name so if he insisted on giving her only a death it would be his own, but if he agreed to the prison break he wouldnt have to kill himself she would unsay his name.

That is what the whole, (I am paraphrasing) "A girl will be sad when her friend is dead" " A friend would help me, I would never kill a friend"  "So if a man helped, a girl might unsay a name", was about.  She didnt pick a big name because she was trying to get the Northmen to take her to winterfell.

My question is why she didnt use the first two on some Lannisters.

[LuisDantas]

She chose the names of people whose deaths she could confirm.

[the seventh direwolf]

Jon Snow, on 22 January 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

She was blackmailing him.  He would only give her a death, she wanted a prison break.  She said his name so if he insisted on giving her only a death it would be his own, but if he agreed to the prison break he wouldnt have to kill himself she would unsay his name.

That is what the whole, (I am paraphrasing) "A girl will be sad when her friend is dead" " A friend would help me, I would never kill a friend"  "So if a man helped, a girl might unsay a name", was about.  She didnt pick a big name because she was trying to get the Northmen to take her to winterfell.

My question is why she didnt use the first two on some Lannisters.

Thanks, that was really helpful.

BIB, I thought the same thing but we tend to forget that Arya is around 10 years old.  It's been a while since I've read ACoC but I'm pretty sure she realised that later on.

Edited by the seventh direwolf, 22 January 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[the seventh direwolf]

LuisDantas, on 22 January 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

She chose the names of people whose deaths she could confirm.

That makes sense.  She probably wanted to see whether he meant it.

[Lord Theon Greyjoy]

Well after she had chosen twice she did realise she had "squandered" 2 death wishes on those that weren't too important, as she runs to find Jaqen to undo her 2nd wish she finds Weese had already been murdered. So her first 2 had been cast short sightedly and in the heat of the moment, it likely made her think to use the 3rd so cleverly and pull off the coup that led to the North capturing Harrenhal.

[Xtopher]

i think she realizes this as a huge mistake in the scene where she is watching Tywin and The Mountain leave Harrenhal toward battle.
She says something like "what have I done? i should have chosen one of them and help Robb".
Too late evil girl!

[Phat Walda]

Yeah that was one of the more irritating chapters to read. Even if it didn't work, and Jaquen didn't kill anyone, it would have been a thousand times smarter to write down three names of people who ACTUALLY FUCKING MATTERED and let him vanish in the hopes that he'd do it, rather than just waste them to double-check that he would follow through.

[Drowsey Dragon]

As mentioned before in this thread, it is key to remember she is only 10 years old and her actions are totally realistic to her age. She relizes she made a mistake, but it was too late to correct.

[Dragonreaver]

If you're ten, and you can make three people go away, who're you going to choose? People miles and miles away that you hate but haven't seen for ages, or people RIGHT THERE in your house, hurting you RIGHT NOW?

...yeah. Exactly.

I have a question though...

I haven't got my copy of the book with me and I can't remember, but had Arya been told at that point about the whole 'un-saying a name' aspect? Because if not, then it's very dubious that she would be able to come up with her plan. I can't remember her being told about it until Ja'quen begs her to unsay his name after she names him as the third victim.

I can just about believe that Arya would possess the cunning to pull it off if she'd known, because she was always portrayed as a clever girl, in the cunning/tricksy way. But I'm not sure how she knew that Ja'quen would beg her to unsay his name. Up until that point, I'm pretty sure she just said a name and they died soon after.

Edited by Dragonreaver, 20 February 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[Hookd]

Dragonreaver, on 19 February 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

I haven't got my copy of the book with me and I can't remember, but had Arya been told at that point about the whole 'un-saying a name' aspect? Because if not, then it's very dubious that she would be able to come up with her plan. I can't remember her being told about it until Ja'quen begs her to unsay his name after she names him as the third victim.

I can just about believe that Arya would possess the cunning to pull it off if she'd known, because she was always portrayed as a clever girl, in the cunning/tricksy way. But I'm not sure how she knew that Ja'quen would beg her to unsay his name. Up until that point, I'm pretty sure she just said a name and they died soon after.

My impression is that Arya realized that she wasted her first two deaths and should have picked someone who would have been a help to Robb. (Although why she didn't pick The Moutain, I don't know).   She was under the impression that those of them that had started with Yoren had a special kinship and saving those three was another boon.  I think that she felt Jaquen should have wanted to help free the northern man like she did.  When he didn't, she used his name as a blackmail.. after all, she just assumed he wouldn't want to kill himself.

[Lord Hodor]

Even at my age I wouldn`t have picked the lannisters, I`d have picked three people whose`s deaths would make it possible for me to get away.

With your own life, read future, at stake I don`t belive anyone would have sat and rationaly thought it trough, on the war front, and everything else to make the best possible choices. You pick who you can see, and who are actually inteent in doing you harm now.

What puzzles me is how no house, no matter how rich, haven`t bothered during this whole war to hire the faceless men to kill a king or two.
If the Lannisters can`t afford them, who the hell can?

[Crown]

Lord Hodor, on 06 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Even at my age I wouldn`t have picked the lannisters, I`d have picked three people whose`s deaths would make it possible for me to get away.

With your own life, read future, at stake I don`t belive anyone would have sat and rationaly thought it trough, on the war front, and everything else to make the best possible choices. You pick who you can see, and who are actually inteent in doing you harm now.

What puzzles me is how no house, no matter how rich, haven`t bothered during this whole war to hire the faceless men to kill a king or two.
If the Lannisters can`t afford them, who the hell can?

There's some explanation on this in A Feast For Crows. Basically it is that they can't simply be hired for money, if I remember correctly.

Edited by Crown, 06 March 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[your grace]

Lord Hodor, on 06 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Even at my age I wouldn`t have picked the lannisters, I`d have picked three people whose`s deaths would make it possible for me to get away.

With your own life, read future, at stake I don`t belive anyone would have sat and rationaly thought it trough, on the war front, and everything else to make the best possible choices. You pick who you can see, and who are actually inteent in doing you harm now.

What puzzles me is how no house, no matter how rich, haven`t bothered during this whole war to hire the faceless men to kill a king or two.
If the Lannisters can`t afford them, who the hell can?

do the people of westeros know about them?  there are so many cases of supernatural beings/events that people dont buy into, if anyone did hear about the faceless men they probably would have just disregarded what they heard.

[Knight of Cydonia]

To those who wondered why Arya didn't choose to kill Lannisters, as I can't figure out how you use the quote.

I think that Arya was impulsive in her choice of her first two victims. Also, it is quite feasible to others that her victims could have died of natural causes or by accident. Whereas if Cersei Lannister died, the finger would no doubt be pointed at someone.

[thepipes]

yes it was blackmail

[Mr_Gimp]

her (Arya) naming  Jaqen was essentially like a child wishing for more wishes to me well sorta.
The problem I have is that for all Arya new he would have just laughed at her.. or possibly even killed her for being 'cute' with him.
Yes he followed through with his 'debt' thus far but to believe that his honour was such that her 'cunning' idea of naming him would vex him in the slightest... I don't know.

[BonneHiver]

If she'd named Joffrey it wouldn't have really done a whole lot because Tommen would have come in after him. And anyway Cersai and Tyrion were controlling Joffrey pretty much three quarters of the way. At least by saying Jaquen was she able to secure some safety for herself rather than just shuffling a deck of cards that might not even be her own.

[Independent George]

Lord Hodor, on 06 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

What puzzles me is how no house, no matter how rich, haven`t bothered during this whole war to hire the faceless men to kill a king or two.
If the Lannisters can`t afford them, who the hell can?

I can't reveal the full answer without spoiling, but remember that in GOT, Littlefinger remarked that the price for a merchant prince was less than the cost of hiring an army of sellswords. Based on that the price of a noble (let alone a prince or a king) seems prohibitive.

[Harle The Handsome]

Jon Snow, on 22 January 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

She was blackmailing him.  He would only give her a death, she wanted a prison break.  She said his name so if he insisted on giving her only a death it would be his own, but if he agreed to the prison break he wouldnt have to kill himself she would unsay his name.

That is what the whole, (I am paraphrasing) "A girl will be sad when her friend is dead" " A friend would help me, I would never kill a friend"  "So if a man helped, a girl might unsay a name", was about.  She didnt pick a big name because she was trying to get the Northmen to take her to winterfell.

My question is why she didnt use the first two on some Lannisters.

The first two names were people in her every day life she hated.  She later realized that, while satisfying, neither of those deaths meant anything.  By tricking Jaqen she made her last name meaningful.  It was also necessary to impress Jaqen, thus causing him to give her the iron coin and getting her storyline to Bravos