125 replies to this topic

[Padraig]

I don't know why there is a focus on missing characters.  There is not many of those.  I'm sure they will be able to deal with them.  The bigger issue is all the characters that do appear.

master, on 03 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

So the most likely scenario is that got will slowly get worse as the series progressess. Characters names have already been changed due to the producers being scared that they won't be able to tell the difference between robert arryn the eight year old and king robert the drunkard. They've already added unnessesary characters for absolutely no reason.

In the future they'll strip plotlines, remove important characters and add new important characters who don't exist. Eventually they'll create their own plots and the only thing that is good would be the name.

Where in the world did that post come from?

_Oberyn_, on 04 February 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Just from a viewers point of view i feel insulted that someone prezumed to make that change on my behalf.

You don't think you are been a little sensitive there?   I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking of the readers when they made that change anyhow.

[master]

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Where in the world did that post come from

This is the realist thread. And when it comes to me realism and cynisisn are fairly close.

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Just from a viewers point of view i feel insulted that someone prezumed to make that change on my behalf

completely agree,

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You don't think you are been a little sensitive there? I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking of the readers when they made that change anyhow

so you are saying people who don't read books are too stupid to tell the difference between robert [robin in the tv show] arryn and robert baratheon. I'm pretty sure people who don't read the books would be smart enough to understand. I'm not sure where you're from, but where I come from the age restriction is eighteen, not five.

[Dragon greyscale]

master, on 04 February 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

so you are saying people who don't read books are too stupid to tell the difference between robert [robin in the tv show] arryn and robert baratheon. I'm pretty sure people who don't read the books would be smart enough to understand. I'm not sure where you're from, but where I come from the age restriction is eighteen, not five.

Nonreaders have less time to let things sink in. It is an inherently restrictive medium in terms of quantity of information. It needs to be succinct and condensed, relying on visuals more than on elaborate storytelling.
forget the name thing; the actors that play lancel and loras look very similar. Many nonreaders i know thought they were the same person. These are highly educated and adult people, mind you. So yes, I do think it is important to make the distinction between characters as clear as possible. Names included.

[Alex the Andal]

For the people worried about the actors and actresses (especially the children) aging a bit too much - while this is a problem, keep in mind that the show also "bumped" up all the kid's ages by at least 3 years. Dany is 16, Bran is 10, Jon is 17. If we say the ASOIAF series takes place over 5-6 years total, and the show run 6-8 seasons (if it makes it) then that's not too much discrepancy in ages.

[master]

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Nonreaders have less time to let things sink in. It is an inherently restrictive medium in terms of quantity of information. It needs to be succinct and condensed, relying on visuals more than on elaborate storytelling.
forget the name thing; the actors that play lancel and loras look very similar. Many nonreaders i know thought they were the same person. These are highly educated and adult people, mind you. So yes, I do think it is important to make the distinction between characters as clear as possible. Names included.

there is a very simple solution to the problem. Make it so obvious that they are different that someone would have to be an idiot to screw them up. Robert arryn could have be given a nickname [sweetrobin]. that would work better than changing the names completely.Asha and Osha could by refering to asha as greyjoy or the krakens daughter and osha as the wildling. And doesnt yara and arya sound more similar than osha and asha. Also with lancel and loras, arent the tyrells supposed to have BROWN hair. I really don't understand how you could get confused if the hair colours are completely different

Not to mention the fact that robert and robert, and osha and asha are nowhere near each other at any point in the series. Someone might get confused between two people who look similar if they are both in the same place [kkings landing]. But if one is at winterfell and the other is on pyke than how could anyone get confused. Unless they get confused and think pyke is winterfell, but that would be a problem  with set design and costumes, not characters names. If they are mentioned in passing robert could be called the king while the other robert could be called young robert arryn or the lord of the eyrie.

There are over fifteen targs which have at least one other targ with the same name. There have been five aegons, two daenarys,three viserys, two Jaehaerys, two daerons, two maekers, two aemons, two baelors, etc. at least. there are probably more for a couple of them. Are they going to rename all of them?

Edited by master, 04 February 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Carey Snow]

double post (sorry)

Edited by Carey Wilson, 04 February 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Carey Snow]

In my opinion, the show needs to stop trying to do a book a season. In fact, they could pull things from different books of the same character arch to make it easier to follow for the non book reading tv audience. As long as the character's stories stay roughly in line with the book I have no problem with the show messing with the time lines and streamlining things.

[master]

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In my opinion, the show needs to stop trying to do a book a season. In fact, they could pull things from different books of the same character arch to make it easier to follow for the non book reading tv audience. As long as the character's stories stay roughly in line with the book I have no problem with the show messing with the time lines and streamlining things.

I agree. I'd rather have the plot the same than have it follow the books. I'd even agree with a few scenes of theon after clash and before dance. As long as the plot doesnt completely change. But adding new characters and removing important one is bad. And changing the names is bad. And changing characters personalities is bad. And changing the plot is the path to doom. Look at what happened to valyria.

[TheEvilKing]

Here is how I see it panning out:

Season 1: AGOT
Season 2: ACoK
Season 3: ASoS Part 1
Season 4: ASoS Part 2 + Ironborn chapters from AFFC, beginning with Balon's death and ending with the Kingsmoot
Season 5: 12-13 eps to cover AFFC & ADWD. I don't see them covering the books in 2 seasons because I can think of no mid-book jumping off point for the main storylines. Unless they decide to change the story enough which might actually be a better idea otherwise the TV series will probably catch up to the books.

[WenchofTarth]

Thinning some of the plot is tolerable, will be needed in order to crunch the books into 10 ep seasons but if they start removing characters then there are problems...

Have to watch Season 2 before any judgment but I am slightly worried

[protar]

I read it on TVtropes so it's probably not reliable, but the producers are planning on eight seasons providing the money keeps flowing. Each book will cover one season, except for SOS which will be split into two and AFFC/DWD which will cover 2 seasons, but will be recombined and split chronologically rather than geographically.

[A Time for Wolves]

As long as they keep Arya's nightly prayer in S2, leave Roz and all sexposition out in favor of actually including great little scenes from the books, I'll be happy. Low expectations for the win.

[Padraig]

Carey Wilson, on 04 February 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

In my opinion, the show needs to stop trying to do a book a season.

Don't worry.  They are probably going to do that from S3.

master, on 04 February 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

This is the realist thread. And when it comes to me realism and cynisisn are fairly close.

Only a cynic would say that.  Certainly not a realist.

Most viewers would have been able to tell the difference between those 2 Roberts but traditionally in TV, characters are not named the same.  Given that Robert Arryn is actually called Sweetrobin in the books, the writers probably thought it was simplest to call him just Robin.  While they probably knew that some people would have a fit, they realised that most people wouldn't care.

I'd find it silly if they refused to use Osha or Asha's names because they sound the name.  And no, Yara and Arya only sound similar if you are mispronouncing their names.  You can freely denounce people as stupid but we are talking about a huge cast.  Tiny changes to names are a small price to pay to try to reduce the level of confusion in this series.  And Asha and Osha do end up in the same place.

D&D have stayed very faithful to the story so far.  But if you expect an almost exact replication of the books then you are going to be dissappointed.  There is no possibility that they wouldn't continue to tweak things here and there.  So prepare yourself for a lot of dissappointment.

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There have been five aegons, two daenarys,three viserys, two Jaehaerys, two daerons, two maekers, two aemons, two baelors, etc. at least. there are probably more for a couple of them. Are they going to rename all of them?

No they wouldn't since they are dead and likely not to feature in the series.

TheEvilKing, on 04 February 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Season 5: 12-13 eps to cover AFFC & ADWD. I don't see them covering the books in 2 seasons because I can think of no mid-book jumping off point for the main storylines. Unless they decide to change the story enough which might actually be a better idea otherwise the TV series will probably catch up to the books.

Actually, you can find mid-book jumping points easily enough.  GRRM ends most chapters with major revelations/cliffhangers, so you just pick a few of those (e.g Tyrion finding out about young Griff or Kevan turning on Cersei).  It all depends on where they want to break.

[Dragon greyscale]

Padraig, on 05 February 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Only a cynic would say that.  Certainly not a realist.

Most viewers would have been able to tell the difference between those 2 Roberts but traditionally in TV, characters are not named the same.  Given that Robert Arryn is actually called Sweetrobin in the books, the writers probably thought it was simplest to call him just Robin.  While they probably knew that some people would have a fit, they realised that most people wouldn't care.

I'd find it silly if they refused to use Osha or Asha's names because they sound the name.  And no, Yara and Arya only sound similar if you are mispronouncing their names.  You can freely denounce people as stupid but we are talking about a huge cast.  Tiny changes to names are a small price to pay to try to reduce the level of confusion in this series.  And Asha and Osha do end up in the same place.

D&D have stayed very faithful to the story so far.  But if you expect an almost exact replication of the books then you are going to be dissappointed.  There is no possibility that they wouldn't continue to tweak things here and there.  So prepare yourself for a lot of dissappointment.

No they wouldn't since they are dead and likely not to feature in the series.

I agree with all of this. I prefer my tv shows to be watchable. Crazy, I know.
To elaborate on the yara discussion a bit more: an anagram is not necessarily confusing when you pronounce it. Gonea cannot be confused with aegon. On the other hand, igon is more easily confused with aegon if they are both mispronounced slightly.
I just thought i'd spell that out a bit more:)

But anyway, I think it's fair to say that anyone has their own limits on what is still permissable for D&D to change. To me, names and appearances are not essential. In fact, obsessing about them can become obstacles in adaptation.
From what I've heard for next season, the thing that bugs me is the exclusion of Reek, just because I think he would make a cool tv character.
I understand why they left the Reeds out a bit more. So far they haven't really contributed to the story in a major way. I do like their mystical qualities but I think HBO prefers the plot and political intrigue over the supernatural elements. In that light, I understand the decision a bit more. Cutting out Reek is different though.
On a positive note, i think it is wise to expand to quarth scenes. This is not to say it will be good, but dany's arc is superthin in acok. An exciting expansion would contribute to the quality of the show.
I was wondering how you guys would feel about expanding quarth even more for coming seasons. What if it would serve as an amalgamation of the slaver bay cities as well? They could esablish some sort of slaver faction in the city. Dany could easily steal unsullied from some slaver in the city amd gain political power. She could then go on to free other slaves with her new position in S3 and move to westeros in s4. Thoughts?

[_Oberyn_]

Dragon greyscale, on 05 February 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

I was wondering how you guys would feel about expanding quarth even more for coming seasons. What if it would serve as an amalgamation of the slaver bay cities as well? They could esablish some sort of slaver faction in the city. Dany could easily steal unsullied from some slaver in the city amd gain political power. She could then go on to free other slaves with her new position in S3 and move to westeros in s4. Thoughts?

From the trailer and some interviews i get the impresion that to some degree this is whats going to hapen.  And that at least Astapor will be cut out and the evets moved to Qarth.

[Padraig]

_Oberyn_, on 06 February 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

From the trailer and some interviews i get the impresion that to some degree this is whats going to hapen.  And that at least Astapor will be cut out and the evets moved to Qarth.

Really?  I must have missed that.  I don't recall any mention of a Slave King or anything like that.  One of the Slave Cities could be dropped in S3 or they could have combined Qarth with one of them but I was thinking that they haven't done so.

[Ser Robin Hill]

Alex the Andal, on 04 February 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

For the people worried about the actors and actresses (especially the children) aging a bit too much - while this is a problem, keep in mind that the show also "bumped" up all the kid's ages by at least 3 years. Dany is 16, Bran is 10, Jon is 17. If we say the ASOIAF series takes place over 5-6 years total, and the show run 6-8 seasons (if it makes it) then that's not too much discrepancy in ages.

I'd be more worried about the older actors not lasting as long as the series.

[_Oberyn_]

Padraig, on 06 February 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

Really?  I must have missed that.  I don't recall any mention of a Slave King or anything like that.  One of the Slave Cities could be dropped in S3 or they could have combined Qarth with one of them but I was thinking that they haven't done so.

Well there is nothing concrete atm, will have to wait for more details on the "big changes" in Qarth S2.

[Ser Wun Wun]

S3- 2013 ASOS pt.1
S4- 2014 ASOS pt.2
S5- 2015 AFFC/ADWD (TWOW released hopefully); This is where things get interesting.  There is no natural mid-point cut off, and lots of the new stuff Martin added is cutable (or at least reducible) .  I don't see them stretching this out to two seasons.
S6- 2016 TWOW pt.1
S7- 2017 TWOW pt.2;  I am assuming TWOW will be action packed, so it should cover two seasons like ASOS.
S8- 2018 ADOS

Is ADOS really going to be the last book?  I doubt it, and I'm not confident it would even be out by 2018.  I don't think this series will reach its end, as its going to take at least 9-10 seasons to cover everything, and that number is pushing it.  Sad but true.

[TheEvilKing]

Padraig, on 05 February 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Actually, you can find mid-book jumping points easily enough.  GRRM ends most chapters with major revelations/cliffhangers, so you just pick a few of those (e.g Tyrion finding out about young Griff or Kevan turning on Cersei).  It all depends on where they want to break.

I've had a bit of a go at plotting it and AFFC/ADWD could probably be done in 13 eps.

If they decide to do two season, the half-way points for characters would be:

Tyrion: Either being captured by Jorah or the assassination attempt by Penny.
Dany: Deciding she needs to marry Hizdahr
Jaime: Either taking Harrenhal, or at Darry with Lancel
Sam & Arya: Sam & Dareon's scenes in Braavos
Cersei: Reinstating the Faith Militant
Brienne: Travelling with Septon Meribald to the Quiet Isle
Davos: Manderly reveals he's still loyal to the Starks and sends Davos to find Rickon
Jon: Duel with "Rattleshirt" or finds out Ramsay will marry "Arya"
Ironborn: Euron's big ol' feast, sends Victarion to fetch Dany
Stannis: Takes Deepwood Motte
Bran: Training montage with Bloodraven
Reek: Either the scene where Roose and Ramsay re-unite or where Roose takes Reek off Ramsay's hands
Arianne: Myrcella crowning plot fail