322 replies to this topic

[Queen Cersei I]

Has anyone else noticed that, considering they are (presumably) the chief antagonists of the series, the others get a surprisingly small amount of hatred on these boards? Seriously, despite the countless hate threads for characters like Joffrey, Cersei, Ramsay Bolton, and Walder Frey, these poor, neglected entities are all too often ignored and passed over. Strange, considering they are supposedly the number one threat to Westeros security. Is it actually a good thing, that the Others are kept in the background, whereas readers are encouraged to hate characters like Cersei Lannister on a deep, visceral level?

Perhaps. Or perhaps its time for the others to stop skulking off in the woods and getting owned by the likes of Sam Tarley, and step into the spotlight and do some damage (and earn some degree of reader enimity, since they are, after all, supposed to be the chief villains of the series.) And who better to instruct them on how to be hated than Cersei, almost surely the most despised character in the ASOIAF series? Below, Cersei instructs the others on how to up their game and go from mysterious, hovering menace in the background to despised arch villain in one book or less.


From: Queen Cersei, the first of her name, rightful Queen of all of Westeros and ASOIAF’S number one villain
To: The Others
Topic: You guys are pathetic

Dear Losers,

The other day I was rereading AGOT and texting and chatting with my bff Taena when Myrish mentioned to me something truly shocking—that y’all, rather than my venerable self, are meant to be the chief antagonists of this little story.

“Chief antagonists? Chief antagonists?” I said. “Myrish Swamp, sweetheart, I don’t believe you. Methinks you’ve imbibed one too many cups of that Dornish Red, and besides, what do you know of villainy!”

“Much and more,” sneered the Swamp, as she struggled to hide the writing on her t- shirt that for some reason said “Team Littlefinger,” on it, and her bracelet that said “certified spy.” (These Myrish are weird, y’all.)

“Fool, you lie!” I screamed.

“If you don’t believe me,” she replied saucily, “just check the ASOIAF message boards! You’ll see all you need to know there!”

After pledging to throw her to Qyburn in several weeks, but not before at least 3 more scenes of weird, sadistic, explicitly detailed lesbian experimentation, I decided to look upon these ASOIAF message boards.

Soon I discovered that everyone who reads ASOIAF wanted to murder and torture me. In fact, I couldn’t come across a single thread dedicated to me that didn’t include the words “slut” and “whore” used with careless abandon and relish. Not only did readers never fail to obsess over my evil sexual deeds, they never failed to call me degrading, female specific terms, rate my adultery as morally equivalent (if not worse than) murder and torture, and generally wish sadistic (and sexually themed) forms of torture upon my head.

In comparison, Others, you are never mentioned. Does anyone hurl invectives against you guys for your deeds? Wish sadistic sexual punishments upon you? Obsess over your sexual deeds in a way that puts Arabian Nights view of females to shame? I think not, Others.

In short, if you’d like to be the chief villains of the series, I think it’s time you got it into high gear. The author says there are only two books left, which means there may be as little as seven books left. If you are going to emerge as the chief villains, you are going to need to take drastic and unprecedented action, pronto! Below, I have included a series of actions that may help you along the road of Cersei Lannister esque villainy. Use them as you see fit.

Suggestions:
1. Forget about the generalized, mysterious malevolence; leave that shit to Harry Potter villains. Put all your evil desires into a single, coherent plan. (The more grandiose, unrealistic, and narcissistic, the better. See—A Feast for Crows, Cersei POV chapters.) Sometimes it’s hard putting all of one’s megalomania and narcissistic tendencies into a single, coherent plan for world domination. Personally, I’ve found that it helps to make a list. If you don’t have PowerPoint, a trusty pencil and notebook will allow you to form an outline. Remember, less is more, and stick with the basics.

2. I’ve learned that when setting out to be hated by readers, it helps to maliciously harm those characters beloved by fans. Make sure to not only harm such people, but to do so gratuitously, explicitly, needlessly, and in intricately explained ways. Tyrion would be the ideal candidate on whom to focus your senseless malevolence; but Arya or Ned Stark might do in a pinch.

3. Make sure to be shown in the most unflattering light possible. If there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s all in the presentation. How is it that myself and my brother, Tyrion, in the first three books display basically the same code of morality and levels of moral righteousness, but that he is beloved by readers everywhere, whereas I am hated? The issue is presentation. Make sure the author loathes you and endeavors to demonize you at every turn. To earn this, one could be a. A woman who wants power and is willing to challenge capable men whom the author relates to to get it; b. a woman who is willing to manipulate men sexually in order to achieve her ends; c. a beautiful woman who looks down upon and scorns ugly men whom the author relates to. Or, like me, you could strive for all three. Which brings me to:

4. Get a sex change. If there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s that a woman who wants power in these books is truly unnatural. Sure, men may be portrayed as amoral and wicked. But if you really want to be portrayed as an unnatural, disturbed creature for wanting power, it is clearly necessary to be a woman. This became clear when, in a brilliant piece of psychological profiling, the author clarified to the readers that I, Cersei, must secretly want to have a penis and dominate women since I want power.

So, others, if you are going to up your game, I suggest you wed your malevolence and lust for power with female sexual organs. Such a combo never fails to elicit the explicit, unchanging scorn, derision, and demonization from the author and readers alike.

If Others do not, in fact, have sexual organs, adopting dresses and female hairstyles will work in a pinch. I suggest blue to go with your pretty, glowing eyes that I’ve heard so much about.

5. Start using sex to get ahead. This one never fails. Want to earn the hatred and scorn of both readers and the castigation of the author? Why, find some dumb guy, and start giving out sexual favors in exchange for service. It never fails. Remember to make sure to keep using sex to attain your ends even when, according to experience, history, and the laws of common sense, it makes no fucking sense to do so. No doubt, such actions will be gratuitously (and disgustingly) described. Also make sure the guy in question is as gross and uncouth as possible (may I suggest, for consideration, Samwell Tarley?)

As always, make sure that you perform these deeds post sex change and/ or dressing in drag. For totally legitimate reasons, men are not demonized at all for using sex to get ahead (see, Littlefinger and Lysa Tully.) Once again, one must be a woman for such actions to be portrayed as EVIL rather than funny and clever.

That’s all I’ve got for now. Good luck others, and remember, if you haven’t been called a whore by at least 3/4ths of readers, you’re doing something wrong!

Yours in villainy,
Queen Cersei I

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

The Others need some Point of View chapters. We need to see what they think and how they think . (Joking) Hard to hate an imovable object, the Others are closer to a force of nature than to an evil absolutely cruel woman that Cersei is. They are not good but they are too zombie like.

Oh and readers correctly hate Cersei, she is one of the evilest and cruelest in the series. Maybe not at the top but high up there.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, 27 January 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[Baitac]

They sure are in need of some loving, I mean hating.

[Noimporta]

If Cersei wants to stop being so hated, she could start by not planting images of Samwell "pink mast" Tarly getting it on with the Others in my head.

[Jamie Lannister]

Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, on 27 January 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Oh and readers correctly hate Cersei, she is one of the evilest and cruelest in the series. Maybe not at the top but high up there.

Well yeah, but she's criticized mercilessly for the wrong reasons. If you're going to chew her out, it should be in regards to her arranging the murder of children, cooking up countless malevolent plots, and handing innocent people off to, and I quote, "die screaming" at the hands of her personal torture technician... not the fact that a thirty-something woman has had two or three lovers.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Jamie Lannister, on 27 January 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Well yeah, but she's criticized mercilessly for the wrong reasons. If you're going to chew her out, it should be in regards to her arranging the murder of children, cooking up countless malevolent plots, and handing innocent people off to, and I quote, "die screaming" at the hands of her personal torture technician... not the fact that a thirty-something woman has had two or three lovers.

Cersei could have half a hundred lovers for all I care. She is a paranoid, evil, murderous, self-serving bitch. I think only Ramsay Snow, Euron Greyjoy, Roose Bolton, Vargo Hoat, Gregor Clegane and Qyburn out rank her on the evil bitch scale.

[Queen Cersei I]

Ororo727, on 27 January 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Cersei could have half a hundred lovers for all I care. She is a paranoid, evil, murderous, self-serving bitch. I think only Ramsay Snow, Euron Greyjoy, Roose Bolton, Vargo Hoat, Gregor Clegane and Qyburn out rank her on the evil bitch scale.

Just wait until the next book. Cersei is going to get up to some attrocities that put Gregor, Vargo et. al. to shame. She's going to start by killing and torturing Lancel and his innocent brothers, sisters, and mothers, and I seriously do not even want to imagine where she's going to go from there.

Soon no one will be able to "outrank" Cersei on the "evil bitch scale" of your devising.

Some people kind of pitied her last book, which means she has to arise harder, stronger and more senselessly evil in the next scenes she's in.

[David Selig]

I hate the others way more than Cersei, those losers are the reason I've had to suffer through so many Jon Snow chapters. No Others threat would've meant no need to follow the career of Jon "The Chosen One" Snow with all of its ridiculous contrivances.

On the other hand, the plots in which Cersei is heavily involved, are always really interesting.

Edited by David Selig, 27 January 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Skeksi]

This is why I'm going to be disappointed if the Others really are supposed to be the biggest of bads, and the last two books are about preparing for and fighting a big battle with snow zombies.

Not because of your points about Cersei- honestly, I agree with some things and disagree massively with others. For a start, I'd agree that sometimes Cersei is attacked for the wrong things- like taking lovers for favours- rather than plotting murder, allowing and going along with torture, trying to get a kid maimed, etc. However, I also think that a lot of criticism directed at her IS justified. If you took away the criticism directed at her sexuality from these boards, there would still be a lot of criticism there, and she'd still probably be one of the most hated characters for a lot of people. As for the points about villainising a woman for wanting power... well, Daenerys wants power- even leaving aside the fact that her overall aim is to get to Westeros and rule it, she's spent the last few books conquering cities, and whilst readers seem to be getting sick of her presence there, I wouldn't say her wanting power is negatively portrayed. Asha wants power over the Ironborn- probably one of the most misogynistic societies there is- and is portrayed as smart, a capable leader, and pretty much the only sane Greyjoy in existence. Just to give a couple of examples. I mean, I guess you don't agree with me, but personally I see Cersei as a person who is bad at leadership because of her personality traits, not because she is a woman. Robert wasn't a good ruler, either, something we see Ned coming to realise through AGoT (actually, I remember writing a post with parallels between Robert and Cersei, and I kept thinking of new ones, there seem to be a lot. I do wonder if this is purposeful...). Anyway, to each their own.

But because the Others just seem like quite a distant threat. I mean, there were some horrifying scenes in the series, particularly in ASoS when the Night's Watch are running from them, but they just seem so far removed from huge chunks of the plot, and they appear so relatively rarely, that it's very hard to feel towards them as much as we did/ do towards Ramsay, Frey, Cersei, and especially Joffrey (seriously, I am looking forward to the "Audience Reaction" videos so much when the Purple Wedding gets broadcast in the TV series), who have affected huge amounts of story.

EDIT: David Selig, you are, of course, correct. In light of your words, I change my thoughts entirely- the true threat of the Others is omnipresent, and terrifying...

Edited by Skeksi, 27 January 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Queen Cersei I, on 27 January 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Just wait until the next book. Cersei is going to get up to some attrocities that put Gregor, Vargo et. al. to shame. She's going to start by killing and torturing Lancel and his innocent brothers, sisters, and mothers, and I seriously do not even want to imagine where she's going to go from there.

Soon no one will be able to "outrank" Cersei on the "evil bitch scale" of your devising.

Some people kind of pitied her last book, which means she has to arise harder, stronger and more senselessly evil in the next scenes she's in.

I had as much pity for Cercei as she had for the children she had murdered and for the innocents she sent to Qyburn. Yes, she will come back harder for a while, only to be thrashed by Maggi's prophesy in the end. I only hate that Tommen and Myrcella will have to die in order for her get her comeuppance.

[Greyjoy the Reaver]

Cersei is that girl that we all love to hate. The best Lannister antagonist of them all.

[The Swaggering Bravo]

The Others aren't meant to be hated, they're meant to be feared.

[Queen Cersei I]

Rand Sand, on 27 January 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

The Others aren't meant to be hated, they're meant to be feared.

In which case, I have to write another letter: How to be scary, by Gregor Clegane. (With a special introduction by Qyburn, M.D.)

[Queen Cersei I]

Ororo727, on 27 January 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:


I had as much pity for Cercei as she had for the children she had murdered and for the innocents she sent to Qyburn. 


I never said or even though you should have pity for Cersei. In the post you are responding to, I merely predicted the obvious—that Cersei is going to survive her current ordeal, only to commit more heinous atrocities and destroy herself and those she loves in the process. From your post, I got the feeling that you are anticipating this with relish, which is fine. Personally, I’d rather just see her beheaded for her crimes, and have everyone safe from her. However, I guess for some people, nothing works but extended destruction and slow torture for the villain.

Ororo727, on 27 January 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:


 Yes, she will come back harder for a while, only to be thrashed by Maggi's prophesy in the end. I only hate that Tommen and Myrcella will have to die in order for her get her comeuppance.


Actually they don’t “have to die.” But they almost surely will, almost surely at Cersei’s own hands, and/ or due to her inept meddling.

David Selig, on 27 January 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

I hate the others way more than Cersei, those losers are the reason I've had to suffer through so many Jon Snow chapters. No Others threat would've meant no need to follow the career of Jon "The Chosen One" Snow with all of its ridiculous contrivances.

 


After AFFC, Cersei seems every bit as much of a tired cliché as “magically special” characters like Jon Snow. She is the “chosen one” for evil as surely as Jon Snow or Dany are “the chosen ones” for good. A series of tired literary tropes and tacked on plot devices are used to give her a sense of (evil) grandeur, and explain away her inconsistencies and inexplicable actions. But at the center, she still feels... oddly empty.

Perhaps that's because all of her motivations can be traced back to a single issue—the prophecy. She’s gotta stop it from coming true. But in doing so, she is actually making it come true! She is her own worst enemy, headed for self-destruction, and will destroy the only things she loves in the process. (Her kids, the doomed symbols of her wicked, female rebellion against the mighty, just patriarchy that forbids women from bearing children to any man but their husbands, are clearly dead and doomed, and have been from the beginning—they symbolize Cersei’s stupid, wicked, futile female rebellion and (in the author’s eyes) its inevitable failure.) I think we’ve all seen this “self fulfilling prophecy” character arc before, and that was without the incredibly sexist overtones that resonate throughout Cersei’s story arch (and, I’m going to venture to say, this series in general.)

After AFFC, Cersei’s utter, all consuming wickedness challenges consistency, credibility, and basic common sense. And as a sociopathic incompetent solely motivated by the desire to thwart a prophecy that she heard at age 9, she has become far less interesting, and less credible a character. Just as Dany and Jon would be more interesting if they didn’t have A Very Special Destiny, mystical assistance, and the words “the chosen ones” basically tattooed on their foreheads, Cersei would be far more interesting if she were the ambiguous, nuanced antagonist of books 1-3, rather than the cackling, comic book villain obsessed by a prophecy in books 4 and 5.

[The GreatRon]

Cersei is gunna get even more medieval on everyones ass

[The Swaggering Bravo]

Queen Cersei I, on 27 January 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

In which case, I have to write another letter: How to be scary, by Gregor Clegane. (With a special introduction by Qyburn, M.D.)

They aren't scary, they're both insane.

[Revan Baratheon]

The next book is called "Winds of Winter" as everyone knows,so im assuming the others will be the main antagonists,especially since winter has finally come to westeros

After her Walk of Shame,im quite sure Cersie's days as the main villain are done.I mean from the way she behaved with kevan,docile and subdued,i think it was fairly obvious ? That she wont be craving after power anytime quick.Besides no has a shred of respect for her,nor will anyone listen to her,even lannister men will rather follow her cousins or brother,rather than her.
So im not sure what you mean by the fact that she will rise harder and stronger with malice and hatred.....her day in the series is done,only her
death remains

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Revan Baratheon, on 27 January 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

The next book is called "Winds of Winter" as everyone knows,so im assuming the others will be the main antagonists,especially since winter has finally come to westeros

After her Walk of Shame,im quite sure Cersie's days as the main villain are done.I mean from the way she behaved with kevan,docile and subdued,i think it was fairly obvious ? That she wont be craving after power anytime quick.Besides no has a shred of respect for her,nor will anyone listen to her,even lannister men will rather follow her cousins or brother,rather than her.
So im not sure what you mean by the fact that she will rise harder and stronger with malice and hatred.....her day in the series is done,only her
death remains

Cersei is still the Queen Regent and most importantly a Lannister. Behind that demure demeanor she is plotting her revenge on the High Septon and the septas involved in her walk of shame. I don't like the High Septon, so I'm looking forward to what she does to him.

[The King in the South]

Rand Sand, on 27 January 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

They aren't scary, they're both insane.

So you're telling me you're more scared of Cersei than Gregor? haha

Gregor isn't scary? dafuq. If I was on the same continent with Gregor I'm shit myself and probably place a mirror infront of one of my eyes to make sure he wasn't behind me

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Revan Baratheon, on 27 January 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Oh cmon the high septon owned cersie! He raped(figuratively) her ass! He taught her a woman's place! He humbled her...yea i dont like him either

Remember, a Lannister always pays their debts. She will have her revenge.