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Dragonsteel is not Valaryan Steel.


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#1 My blade shall cut lies

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

I actually think that Dragonsteel is a weapon forged from the bones of a dragon. Because I remember in Tyrion's second POV in Game of Thrones, he is reading a book about dragons, saying that their bones have very high iron content and weapons made from them were extremely durable and flexable. So what if the magic in dragons could also be infused in the bones. That is what can kill the Others, a sword forged from Dragon bones.

#2 TrueMetis

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:36 PM

Tthe only dragon bone weapons we've seen have been bows. No stabbing or cutting weapons.

Edited by TrueMetis, 29 January 2012 - 06:37 PM.


#3 My blade shall cut lies

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:38 PM

Just because we haven't seen a Dragonbone sword doesn't mean it can't exist.

#4 Apple Martini

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:04 PM

I'm not sure what dragonsteel is but I do agree that it's different from Valyrian steel. Sam and Jon think they're the same but they're mostly just guessing.

#5 Falrinn

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:33 PM

The problem is that Dragonbone is impervious to fire. This would make it pretty much impossible to forge a Dragonbone into much of anything. You might be able to carve a dragonbone into a sword shape, but in that case the document would of just said Dragonbone, not Dragonsteel.

As for Dragonsteel in general, I'll agree that there's a decent chance it isn't actually Valyrian Steel for a simple reason. Given that it was employed during the Long Night, that would require the knowledge of forging Valyrian Steel to predate...Valyria. Not completely impossible, but highly unlikely.

Of course the document in question was probably written thousands of years after the Long Night and copied and recopied over the centuries and language evolved, so who knows what the First Men really used against the Others.

#6 The Shadowbinder

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:02 PM

I always figured the two were related, perhaps dragons are involved with the forging of Valyarian steel. Maybe dragonsteel is an archaic name for Valyarian steel, forged in a similar fashion, and the Valaryians just popularized or became known for it much later do their name was used instead.

The 1000 year old documents make reference to dragonglass too right? So whoever wrote it must've known about dragons, maybe there were some beyond the wall way back when.

Edited by The Shadowbinder, 29 January 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#7 TrueMetis

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:10 PM

Just because we haven't seen a Dragonbone sword doesn't mean it can't exist.


Would you use material that's good for a bow to make a sword? They require traits that would be the polar opposite of what you would want in the other weapon.

#8 Sevumar

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:33 PM

I always figured the two were related, perhaps dragons are involved with the forging of Valyarian steel. Maybe dragonsteel is an archaic name for Valyarian steel, forged in a similar fashion, and the Valaryians just popularized or became known for it much later do their name was used instead.


I don't see any reason to conclude that these are two different materials. As the poster quoted above suggested, what if they're simply different names for the same material, but from different origins? Dany seems to take for granted that dragonfire is an essential ingredient in forging Valyrian steel weaponry, but we don't know of this is an accurate belief.

If there were dragons in Asshai before Valyria rose to power, it may well be that sorcerers in Asshai learned to create the material first, naming it dragonsteel for the use of dragons in its forging. We have some hints that there may have been ties between Asshai and Westeros in early history. The tale of Azor Ahai comes from Asshai, but it points to a fight against the Others (possibly the War for the Dawn) and the texts referencing dragonsteel may share the same origin. When the Valyrians later discovered or rediscovered how to create this metal, they probably gave it their own name.

Edited by Sevumar, 29 January 2012 - 08:42 PM.


#9 Catastrophe

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:34 PM

The OP is right that Dragonsteel isn't the same thing as Valyrian Steel, but wrong about it being made from the bones of dragons. Dragonbone is actually another material altogether. As stated above, we've seen dragonbone bows but no dragonbone blades, probably because even the hardest bone would be too brittle to make for an effective melee weapon.

No idea what Dragonsteel is, but it seems to refer to a specific type of metal in its own right, while Valyrian Steel just seems to be regular steel that was forged a certain way. The Valyrians apparently had some completely unique way of crafting weapons, possibly utilizing magic and/or extremely advanced technology, which is why Valyrian Steel blades have such special properties.

There's also yet another material called Dragonglass, which is simply another word for Obsidian.

Edited by Catastrophe, 29 January 2012 - 08:35 PM.


#10 Daario Targaryen

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:41 PM

If dragons had steel bones theyd be too heavy to fly

#11 Apple Martini

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:11 PM

The OP is right that Dragonsteel isn't the same thing as Valyrian Steel, but wrong about it being made from the bones of dragons. Dragonbone is actually another material altogether. As stated above, we've seen dragonbone bows but no dragonbone blades, probably because even the hardest bone would be too brittle to make for an effective melee weapon.

No idea what Dragonsteel is, but it seems to refer to a specific type of metal in its own right, while Valyrian Steel just seems to be regular steel that was forged a certain way. The Valyrians apparently had some completely unique way of crafting weapons, possibly utilizing magic and/or extremely advanced technology, which is why Valyrian Steel blades have such special properties.

There's also yet another material called Dragonglass, which is simply another word for Obsidian.


This, and the Long Night preceded the first forging of Valyrian steel by quite a long time, if I understand the timeline. If Dragonsteel is the same as Valyrian steel, then they were using it in Westeros to fight the Others before the Valyrians themselves learned to forge it.

#12 Sevumar

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:16 PM

This, and the Long Night preceded the first forging of Valyrian steel by quite a long time, if I understand the timeline. If Dragonsteel is the same as Valyrian steel, then they were using it in Westeros to fight the Others before the Valyrians themselves learned to forge it.


Consider the scenario I laid out in my post, the possibility that the Valyrians were not the first to create spellforged steel. We have stories from Asshai regarding Azor Ahai (with his sword, Lightbringer) and they have a lot in common with the Last Hero, who is said to have used dragonsteel to fight the Others.

There are stories of Asshai being the origin of dragons, and the home of powerful sorcerers. It is entirely possible that the people of Asshai could have created dragonsteel before Valyrian civilization became a force in Essos.

#13 Apple Martini

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:19 PM

Consider the scenario I laid out in my post, the possibility that the Valyrians were not the first to create spellforged steel. We have stories from Asshai regarding Azor Ahai (with his sword, Lightbringer) and they have a lot in common with the Last Hero, who is said to have used dragonsteel to fight the Others.

There are stories of Asshai being the origin of dragons, and the home of powerful sorcerers. It is entirely possible that the people of Asshai could have created dragonsteel before Valyrian civilization became a force in Essos.


You mean the Valyrians aren't the godspawn we've been led to believe? Say it isn't so!

#14 Revan Baratheon

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:27 PM

You mean the Valyrians aren't the godspawn we've been led to believe? Say it isn't so!

Actually the dragonlords of the freehold of valyria were fucking their sheep during the long night, while old ghiscari empire ruled! They made some of the tastiest curries during their golden era..

How do guys with purple eyes and silver hair even begin their lives as shepherds?? I mean try to imagine rhaegar as a smallfolk,absurd right?

#15 Know Face Man

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:19 AM

I don't see why its so hard to believe Dragonsteel is Valyrian Steel.

Sometime we tend to over think



#16 Know Face Man

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:27 AM

We have to remember that there is no written record from the First Men only stories passed down.

So everything we know about the First Men is from the accounts of other people.



#17 Arya Targaryen

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:37 AM

I don't see why its so hard to believe Dragonsteel is Valyrian Steel.

Sometime we tend to over think

Well, my only problem is that 8000 years ago there was no Valyrian steel in Westeros. I don't think its impossible though, but I find it hard to believe.
My guess would be dragonbone, but I see the point others have made (like its hard to forge or you dont make a sword from a material that is used to make bows).
And there is another question: were there any dragons in Westeros 8000 years or more ago? Mayhaps.

BTW, Arya compares the dragonteeth to sharp swords and daggers in AGOT. Maybe the dragonsteel sword was nothing but a tooth with a handle.

#18 Free Northman

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:05 AM

Please just prepare yourselves for the inevitable, friendly invitation to visit the "Heresy number 500" thread. It should be forthcoming as soon as its promoter logs onto this thread.

As for my opinion: I think it is clear that Dragonsteel is not Valyrian steel, because of the date issue. There was no Valyrian empire at the time of the Long Night.

#19 Cosmic Maintenance Man

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:13 AM

It might or might not be Valyrian steel, but in my opinion it probably has nothing to do with the bones of dragons. Whenever a weapon uses the bones of dragons, GRRM simply calls it 'Dragonbone'. For instance, the knife used by the assassin, sent to kill Bran. His knife was 'Valyrian Steel' with a 'Dragonbone hilt'.

Edited by Cosmic Maintenance Man, 30 January 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#20 Arya Targaryen

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:20 AM

I might or might not be Valyrian steel, but in my opinion it probably has nothing to do with the bones of dragons. Whenever a weapon uses the bones of dragons, GRRM simply calls it 'Dragonbone'. For instance, the knife used by the assassin, sent to kill Bran. His knife was 'Valyrian Steel' with a 'Dragonbone hilt'.

But GRRM never talks about dragonsteel or the sword the Last Hero used! Old Nan(?), Sam, Jon - yes - but they just don't know what it could be. Most people in Westeros never heard of dragonsteel or the Last Hero's sword. Those who have heard about it, have no idea what it could cover. So why would they call it dragonbone?