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Tyene Sand's interest in the High Septon


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#1 The Sunset King

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:15 PM

ADWD revealed that Tyene was tasked with establishing a relation with the Sparrows that could be used to benefit Dorne's goals. She is said to give off the aura of a Septa and plans to try to influence the High Septon. What all might she do on her mission to advance the Martell cause? Since it seems extremely likely that Doran is going to declare Dorne for Aegon, the following analysis will be based upon that. Doran dying would also not fundamentally change the nature of Dorne's goals; if anything support for a militantly pro-Aegon, anti-Tyrell/Lannister approach would be inflamed.

One possibility that has often been discussed is that Tyene will try to convince the Faith Militant to accept her as one of the judges for the trial of Margaery Tyrell, perhaps as a false maiden. The case against Margaery is weak and based heavily on fabricated confessions extracted through coercion and torture. However, there is a possibility that a sufficient number of judges who do not care about the truth will be appointed to enable a convinction. Tyene and others may simply view the trial as a tool to damage the enemy alliance and decide to support a guilty verdict in advance. More than almost anything other single action, getting the High Septon to act against Margaery would inflict maximum damage and confusion amongst the Tyrell/Lannister leadership.

Other actions Tyene Sand may take: Convince the High Septon that Aegon was delivered to Westeros as a true king and shining champion to "cleanse Westeros of evil." The HS appears to realize that the incest pertaining to Cersei is true, but he has been lacking an acceptable alternative to the present arrangement in regards to the throne. His answer could lie with Aegon. Perhaps Tyene will urge the High Septon to offer the help of both military orders to Aegon if, as king, he agrees to assist the Faith Militant against its enemies. Most of its enemies happen to be Aegon's as well. The biggest problem for Aegon is that this would cause him problems in areas where R'hllor is believed in as well as create antagonism with the North and Iron Isles. The HS's approval would help a lot against the Tyrells, though, should they continue to support the Margaery/Tommen combination.

If the Sand Snakes discover the truth about UnGregor they will definitely want the High Septon to hear of that. The HS would rise up against the Lannisters upon learning that Cersei/Qyburn are using a corpse animated by dark magic. Qyburn's Area 51 will be something that the Faith Militant will view as particularly loathsome. Resorting to necromancing would probably be a worse offense in his view that simply following another religion.

Will be very interesting to see what Varys thinks of this High Septon as well. Varys may also continue his assassination campaigns.

Whether Jaqen could have assassinated a High Septon, due to the renounciation of the use of personal names by holders of that office, would also have been interesting to know.

Edited by The Sunset King, 08 August 2013 - 06:34 PM.


#2 ForeverBallin

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

Hopefully she fails. I hate the Sand Snakes.

#3 The King in the South

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

I thought it was just so Doran could have an eye among the two powers in KL (court and the faith)

Edited by The King in the South, 29 January 2012 - 09:06 PM.


#4 Arkash

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:09 AM

Well, Lady Nym and Tyene are in much trouble, especially Lady Nym if Doran declares for Aegon. She's at the council and her identity is known.

As for Tyene, yes, she's supposed to just watch for the moment, but, come on, she's a Sand Snake, dont expect her to sit and wait !

#5 Ser Kevan of Stone Hedge

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:19 PM

Awesome post. This is a topic I hadn't seen discussed since I started lurking these boards, and I even forgot about Tyene being sent to the High Septon as a spy.

Very hard to say at this point how it looks like things will turn out, but I have to imagine the relatively large army the faith is mobilizing will play a huge part in whatever the High Sparrow and his possible allies get up to. It seems very likely Margaery and Cersei's trials as well as unGregor will factor in as well.

#6 History of Westeros

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

The fact that Tyene is mentioned as being so fearsome with regards to poisoning has to be relevant. It's hard to imagine her *not* poisoning someone, really.

I wonder who her most likely targets are... She would love to kill Tommen but that is probably too hard to pull off at this stage. Cersei isn't as well protected but she Tyene doesn't have easy access to her either.

If she figures out what Ser Robert Strong is and can't get anything done, she might want to poison Qyburn. I definitely think getting involved in Margaery's trial is very likely. Even if she can't be directly involved, she could potentially poison a pro-Margaery judge, for example.

#7 Trial

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

The fact that Tyene is mentioned as being so fearsome with regards to poisoning has to be relevant. It's hard to imagine her *not* poisoning someone, really.

I wonder who her most likely targets are... She would love to kill Tommen but that is probably too hard to pull off at this stage. Cersei isn't as well protected but she Tyene doesn't have easy access to her either.

If she figures out what Ser Robert Strong is and can't get anything done, she might want to poison Qyburn. I definitely think getting involved in Margaery's trial is very likely. Even if she can't be directly involved, she could potentially poison a pro-Margaery judge, for example.

It might be possible for Tyene to get access to her though. After the Walk of Shame, Cersei's attendants are a Septa and girls in training that are switched weekly. It is possible the Tyene could get into the rotation and cause mischeif. It would work especially well is she has the High Septons trust first; that way no one would want to blame her.

#8 Mrs.Grumpy

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:25 AM

How can she join the judge ? She's not a maiden /stillsick.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stillsick:' />

#9 Scipio Africanus

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:27 AM

The HS appears to realize that the incest pertaining to Cersei is true, but he has been lacking an acceptable alternative to first Joffrey and now Tommen.


You do realize we've had at least three High Septons in the ASOFAI timeline? The first one was some fat dude who got ripped apart by an angry mob. The second some old dude Tyrion chose. Third one wasn't chosen (or in the pockets) of any high nob. He was chosen, it seems, by the Poor Fellows or Sparrows, which induced Moonboy to quip that the current one is the High Sparrow. Ever since elected he's pretty much proved to be a player in the Game. Hopefully we'll find out who he was before he became a Sparrow but that isn't likely I suppose.

The High Sparrow wasn't arround when Joff was crowned IIRC. Or even when Tommen was crowned IIRC.

At any rate something tells me we'll hear a lot more from mr. High Sparrow next novel.

One possibility that has often been discussed is that Tyene will try to convince the Faith Militant to accept her as one of the judges for the trial of Margaery Tyrell


I'm hazy on to what was said about who would judge Cercei and Marge on behest of the Faith. But I believe only Septas of all ages could judge.

She will however seek contact with the High Sparrow and work with him against the Lannisters (and Tyrells) I suspect.

Will be very interesting to see what Varys thinks of this High Septon as well. Varys may also continue his assassination campaigns.


I suspect the High Sparrow just might ending up supporting Aegon (ironically, as the HS will no doubt shame the Lannisters for putting an abomination on the throne, yet Aegon isn't who he says he is either). If so Varys won't kill him. At any rate the HS is doing a decent job in creating chaos in KL. Not since LF has Varys had such a good buddy to work with.

#10 TalalOfDorne

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

She and her sister will be playing games in KL. Im not sure wether they will arrive before or after Margaerys trial but if the do make it I have a feeling Teyne might just sabotage the trial and try to make Margaery look guilty.

I can also see Teyne making a secret alliance with Cersei to get rid of the enemy (the Tyrells) and then betray her and Tommen just as Aegon is about to take KL.
But who knows if she will win the High Septons support in anything.

#11 Ice Turtle

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:43 AM

Why would Tyene as a newcomer have any significant position in the Faith?

#12 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:07 AM

Why would Tyene as a newcomer have any significant position in the Faith?

Because she pulls strings to get it.

#13 Ice Turtle

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

Because she pulls strings to get it.


Still not buying it. Her family don't have influence on the Faith and she is supposed to pretend to be someone else. It takes at least a little time to go on top.

#14 Hans Sprungfeld

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:13 AM

It was mentioned in an Arienne chapter that Tyene has has "magic hands." I believe they may just be the thing to get Lancel working again, especially knowing that Lancel likes blondes. I believe Tyene will work with The High Septon (who I believe is Varys's puppet) to try and get Lancel to claim his title as Regent of Castery Rock (since Cersi is Queen Regent and Jaime is in the Kingsguard Lancel would be ruler of the Rock until Myrcella is of appropriate age), and ultimately flip the west into Aegon's camp.

#15 elalendi

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

Yeah I can see Tyene befriending Cersei but secretly plotting Cersei's downfall in one way or another. Remember, the Sand Snakes hate all Lannisters to death (Nym even said she wanted Tommen to die to pay for the crimes). As for allying with Lannisters to get an army for Aegon, I don't know... the Martells don't seem like Tyrells. They don't flip camp "just like that" (Dornish people in general too), they're kinda fiercely protective of Dorne and I'm pretty sure their true desire is to be a country of their own again.

Anyway I really hope they don't go ahead and ally with Aegon because I smell doom all over that one D:

and I love Dorne, Martells, and Sands. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#16 jarl the climber

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:21 PM

I'm not sure if Tyene is supposed to be a spy or not. If she came to the HS and revealed who she was and offered her Uncles support he very well might give her a place at his side or in his counsels. It seems like Doran wanted her to gain this guys measure before she did anyhthing. If she suspects that Robert Strong is Gregor and there is every reason to think she will, she would clearly tell him that Dorne was betrayed and will rebel against Tommen. Many in Dorne worship the Seven and they are his people so he can not ignore Dornes legitimate greivance. Shes a hothead and this Septon has been willing to take action against the Lannisters. If she manipulates him and lies about her indentity and he later finds out, I do not thimk he would take that well.

#17 Whitering

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:36 PM

Here's the problem for Tyene, or maybe she just wouldn't care; nobles should loathe the idea that the Faith can arrest and prosecute them, even the King and Queen. Second the Tyrells have way more men in the city with things like armor, and high grade weapons than the Faith, and though Mace probably doesn't have the stones to just preemptively attack them, that's exactly what he should do (from a strategic standpoint).

Tyene would probably get executed by the HS for impersonating a Septa, so she probably shouldn't reveal her true self to this zealot.

#18 OberynBlackfyre

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:39 PM

I think that the High Septon is looking to rid himselves of the Lannisters more than the Tyrells, only because he knows that The Faith will never have the amount of power he wants until Cersei is out of the picture. If Tyene begins hinting at different options, I think the High Septon will listen.....whilse Varys is simply waiting for the moment to strike.

I believe the High Septon at least has SOME communication with Varys and acknowledges that Aegon is coming, whether or not he is fully convinced of Aegon being the better ruler is yet to be seen. But I also think if Varys needs to, he will produce the missing Lannister, which is may be used as the new heir to Casterly Rock, and may be for all intents and purposes, a complete puppet of Varys' with all the power of the West behind him now.

#19 jarl the climber

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

Here's the problem for Tyene, or maybe she just wouldn't care; nobles should loathe the idea that the Faith can arrest and prosecute them, even the King and Queen. Second the Tyrells have way more men in the city with things like armor, and high grade weapons than the Faith, and though Mace probably doesn't have the stones to just preemptively attack them, that's exactly what he should do (from a strategic standpoint).

Tyene would probably get executed by the HS for impersonating a Septa, so she probably shouldn't reveal her true self to this zealot.

I don't think he would have a problem with this as long as she did nothing to disgrace the robe as long as she was wearing it. He could understand why Doran would wnat to send an emmisary in confidence.

#20 Lady Pounce of Whiskerrun

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:41 PM

Still not buying it. Her family don't have influence on the Faith and she is supposed to pretend to be someone else. It takes at least a little time to go on top.


I agree with this. And from what we've seen of the current High Septon, he's not a pushover--if Tyene just shows up "looking innocent," that won't be enough to sway him. What does it even mean to "look" innocent??? This is just my personal preference/bias against her, I hope she gets put to work scrubbing floors, etc. and feels really put out about it, blowing her cover/jeopardizing her mission.