111 replies to this topic

[Rangers]

*Spoiler if you're not 1/3 of the way through ADWD*

Hi everyone long time reader first time poster,

I was just wondering why people think Young Griff isn't really BA and is just impersonating him? The scheme of switching the babies seems plausible enough and once his hair is undyed at the end of the novel JC acknowledges that the kid has the correct physical appearance in terms of eye and hair color.

I feel that unless you're looking WAY TOO MUCH into the details or that you're someone who can never take anything in this series at face value (looking at you "Ned's alive" believers), then YG really is who everyone says he is and not some impersonator.

I never got the sense for one second while reading that he was a fake. I would just like to know what are the reasons why people are doubting him. Also, I'd like to get a sense of what the overall consensus is of the people on this board and what the majority believe regarding this issue.

Thanks and sorry if this is too long!

[flame7926]

I agree with this, I don't see any reason to doubt his story.

[Serie]

the only reason I believe that the young griffin is fake is Quaithe's prophecy ("...the mummers dragon. Trust none of them"). My interpretation is that "mummers dragon" is a way to say "fake dragon" and refers to YG.

[master]

It would be more intersting [in my opinion] storywise if he was real.

[Dragon greyscale]

At this point in the story, all naysayers are reacting emotionally/wildy speculative. They come up with "too late in the story" or "his appearance is a red herring" type arguments. Interestingly, genetic traits are what made jon arryn and ned realize that joff was an abomination of incest in GoT. I don't see anyone doubting the significancebof gendry's physical traits as they do with Aegon. Or what about arellas' widow peak as a reference to Oberyn? It seems that people pick and choose when it comes to physical appearence.
There is nothing in the text to indicate he is fake.

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

Serie, on 01 February 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

the only reason I believe that the young griffin is fake is Quaithe's prophecy ("...the mummers dragon. Trust none of them"). My interpretation is that "mummers dragon" is a way to say "fake dragon" and refers to YG.

The Mummer's dragon could also just mean "Varys' dragon."

[Serie]

are you familiar with this thread?
I believe you can find there what you're looking for. And IMHO people do a bit more than just speculating.
But again its up to the reader

[Serie]

Matt 2108, on 01 February 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

The Mummer's dragon could also just mean "Varys' dragon."

agreed, it could mean a lot of things, that's why I said "my interpretation".

there is no proof of course, if that's what the OP meant in the first place. Its all about hints. Who knows

[Lady Kraken]

I think the "mummer's dragon" could easily just mean Varys' dragon. But I think Dany's vision of a fake, cloth dragon in the House of the Undying is a more convincing argument for Aegon being fake. That being said, I don't necessarily think that he's a fake. I could see it going either way. I think the bigger mystery is what Varys is thinking. Why not tell Viserys/Dany about Aegon? Why tell Viserys he's going to be king, if the plan was always to make Aegon king? Were Dany and Viserys the back up plan? And why did Illyrio seem more attached to Aegon than he was to Dany? I do think there's more to the story than what we're currently getting.

[Ramsay Gimp]

It takes away from the downfall of the Targaryens: Aerys slain by his own sworn protecter, Rhaegar defeated on the Trident, Rhaegars' family murdered in a brutal fashion. "Oh, nope! Turns out we switched the heir at the last second!" It's almost like a deus ex machina

I hope he's fake, but I acknowledge that he probably isn't. I do think there is enough of a possibility not to write it off though - this is Varys we're dealing with after all

[thetitansbastard]

Doesn't Tyrion say that YG appears to be a few years too young or something along those lines? I don't have book on me sorry. It could go either way, I kind of lean towards him being fake, but its kind irreleveant if you think about. The Targaryens were defeated, he (and Danaerys) are no less rebels vs. Tommen's kingdom than Robert was vs. Aerys.

Additonally, its a lot more likely for him to be proven a fake than be proven real in my view

[Ramsay Gimp]

I also think it would be interesting if GRRM just kept it somewhat ambiguous and never flat-out stated one way or another whether the boy was "real" or not, even by the series' end.

We may end up with characters wondering to themselves, and subtle hints for both sides of the debate, but no definitive proof

[Falrinn]

From a narrative perspective, it just doesn't make sense for a newcomer to suddenly steal Dany's role as the Targaryen heir so far into the series.


Personally I think even if Aegon is legit, he isn't going to survive for long. Chances are his role in the series is to set up a Targaryen power base in Westeros, and then be supplanted by Dany. Whether by Dany's hand or not, whether he is fake or not, I think it's a fairly safe bet that Aegon will be dead by or soon after the time Dany finally arrives in Westeros.

[The King in the South]

Mummer's dragon
out of nowhere
different eyes than rhaegar/dany
his overall attitude (nothing like rhaegar's)

that's all I can think up off the top of my head, but I'm sure they're more hints

[thetitansbastard]

Ramsay Gimp, on 01 February 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

We may end up with characters wondering to themselves

I would say that's a certainty

[OnionAhaiReborn]

All the set up in Dunk and Egg about the Blackfyres and the connection of them to the Golden Company and then the Golden Company breaks its contract for the first time ever to join 'Aegon'. I would bet on his fakeness and his Blackfyreness. This theory to me is as solid as R+L=J.

[Angarwaen]

I'm more into the "Aegon Blackfyre" theory. Neither the "He's the real Aegon" nor the "He's just a random Varys and Illyrio have picked up" satisfy me.

[duncanthemedium]

Angarwaen, on 01 February 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I'm more into the "Aegon Blackfyre" theory. Neither the "He's the real Aegon" nor the "He's just a random Varys and Illyrio have picked up" satisfy me.

But didn't Barristan kill the last of the Blackfyres? The two-headed dude?

[Jem]

duncanthemedium, on 01 February 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

But didn't Barristan kill the last of the Blackfyres? The two-headed dude?

It has been mentioned that the Blackfyres were ended in their male line. Nothing was said of the female line. It is theorised that Aegon is decended from a female line (ie a Blackfyre girl who married into another family and took on her husband's last name)

[Lady Kraken]

duncanthemedium, on 01 February 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

But didn't Barristan kill the last of the Blackfyres? The two-headed dude?

Yeah, but I think one of the main theories out there is that Serra, Illyrio's wife, was actually a Blackfyre (I think she was described as having the right coloring?), and that she's the mother of Aegon. This could be why Illyrio appeared so disappointed when Aegon didn't come to meet him when he saw Tyrion off.