142 replies to this topic

[Twelve Angry Nonmen]

http://www.reddit.co...epton_meribald/

I LOVE THIS.

the tl;dr is that in AFfC we're told a story about a 3-headed black dragon that's hung for an inn.  It gets cut down when the Blackfyres rebel and tossed into the river, and washes ashore on the Quiet Isle rusted red.  Ergo, it's a reference to the Blackfyres being tossed across the sea, and then Aegon washes ashore pretending to be a Targaryen (rusted red dragon).

[David C. Hunter]

Hah!!! Love it, I wonder if Aegon knows he's not a targ. Maybe it's why we aren't getting a POV from him.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Thanks for posting this. I think that is spot on. It's the black dragon returning, so he thinks, he's really a red dragon. Martin is so sneaky.

[Apple Martini]

Holy cow. That. Is. Brilliant.

ETA: Could you post this on the General board too? It might get more eyeballs there and I'd love to see what other people have to say about it.

Edited by Apple Martini, 03 February 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[Fire Eater]

Nice catch!

[Lady Olenna]

Nice!

[Grip]

Wow, that was an impressive find! I hadnt given that sign any thought whatsoever previously!

[Patchface Is AA Reborn]

Outstanding Catch! I am now firmly entrenched in theory of him being Illyrio's son with Serra. Is the consensus that Serra is the Blackfyre not Illyrio? Were the Blackfyres known to marry family like the Targs.? Is it possible that Serra and Varys are brother and Sister? Ahhhhhh too many possibilites!!!

[Silent_Hero]

Really interesting it has to be either a symbolism or just a herring,though I'll just go with Aegon is a Blackfyre and still one of the 3 heads. But it could be a intentional red herring since it would be too easy for GRRM to give Aegon away like that.

[Apple Martini]

King Patchface 2012, on 03 February 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

Outstanding Catch! I am now firmly entrenched in theory of him being Illyrio's son with Serra. Is the consensus that Serra is the Blackfyre not Illyrio? Were the Blackfyres known to marry family like the Targs.? Is it possible that Serra and Varys are brother and Sister? Ahhhhhh too many possibilites!!!

1. I think that is the idea, yes, that Serra's the Blackfyre and not Illyrio. The Blackfyres are male-line extinct but not female-line.

2. The Blackfyres are a bastard offshoot line from the Targaryens.

3. Yes it's possible and there's an idea floating around that claims they're siblings. Another idea is that Varys is bald to hide Targ features and that he may not even be a eunuch at all.

Silent_Hero, on 03 February 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Really interesting it has to be either a symbolism or just a herring,though I'll just go with Aegon is a Blackfyre and still one of the 3 heads. But it could be a intentional red herring since it would be too easy for GRRM to give Aegon away like that.

This is something that went over the heads of probably 99% of readers, including a lot of us on here who dissect this to within an inch of its life, and you think it's "too easy"? Really?

Edited by Apple Martini, 03 February 2012 - 02:47 AM.

[Cat Stark]

Absolutely Brilliant

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

That's case closed for me then. No doubt left.

A thought though, if they were the legitamate claiments to the throne and the male line became extinct would it not legally pass to their male Targ cousins rather than the female line so it would have passed to Viseys after the last male Blackfyre, then Dany after his death?

[Rapsie]

Excellent idea! I always thought the rusted Dragon had something to do with Sandor being there, but the Blackfyre theory sounds better.

There's also a good thread about the significance of the Quiet Isle and what else may wash up there http://asoiaf.wester...the-quiet-isle/

[Max Stark]

Quote

Targaryens use a red dragon as their sigil; a black dragon is the sigil of house Blackfyre. After their defeat, the Blackfyres were diminished in number and forced across the narrow sea ("[he] hacked the [black dragon] to pieces, and cast them into the river"). Could this passage foreshadow the reappearance of a Blackfyre heir ("one of the dragon's heads") on Westeros's Western shore, whom - given the amount of time since Blackfyres were defeated - everyone takes for a Targaryen instead ("by that time it was red with rust")?

I love it. Somehow the Blackfyre idea seems to be very important for Martin, considering the amount of time he spent on it especially in the last two Dunk and Egg stories. This theory could foreshadow the whole thing. It might not be the solution of Aegons background but together with all the other evidence you mentioned, you just convinced me to become a Blackfyre conspiracy supporter after all.

Edited by Max Stark, 03 February 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[David C. Hunter]

So I guess this is setting up for chapter 6 of the Blackfyre rebellion. They are extremely persistent. Why would Varys help the Blackfyres though?

[Ran]

And just to state the obvious, AFfC and ADwD started as one book, back in the day. That Meribald chapter might originally have been set just a chapter or two away from a Tyrion chapter where he revealed the identity of Young Griff... which is a scene in which a river also figures.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It's quite possible that that was just a bit of color GRRM inserted, so I don't want to read too much into it. But it's definitely an interesting connection. It's not proof, but it's a nice, thematic link.

Edited by Ran, 03 February 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I think it is something where Martin can say see it was forshahowed all along.

[redriver]

Good catch-now the crackpot stuff.

Thinking about Serra,I'm wondering if she could be a descendant of Shiera Seastar,but I don't know if she had children,not having read the Dunc&Egg stories.

Illyrio says she was from Lys, as was Shiera's mother,so maybe he wasn't exactly lying to Tyrion here.The Lysenies have fought over the Stepstones where the last Blackfyre Rebellion was based.

I'm also wondering if she could be Septa Lemore.Pentos is near Andalos,where the Faith of the Seven was born.She could have learned this whilst with Illyrio.

It would just take some hair die to disguise her,whilst I don't see how Ashara Dayne could disguise her eyes.

[Elaena Targaryen]

redriver, on 03 February 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Good catch-now the crackpot stuff.

Thinking about Serra,I'm wondering if she could be a descendant of Shiera Seastar,but I don't know if she had children,not having read the Dunc&Egg stories.

Illyrio says she was from Lys, as was Shiera's mother,so maybe he wasn't exactly lying to Tyrion here.The Lysenies have fought over the Stepstones where the last Blackfyre Rebellion was based.

I'm also wondering if she could be Septa Lemore.Pentos is near Andalos,where the Faith of the Seven was born.She could have learned this whilst with Illyrio.

It would just take some hair die to disguise her,whilst I don't see how Ashara Dayne could disguise her eyes.

Well Shiera's eyes were distinctive as well and would have stood out even more to Tyrion because her eyes are mismatched in color like his. (I'm not sure on the colors though) Some like her for Quaithe and we are waiting for an eye dicription there too.

Edited by Elaena Targaryen, 03 February 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[redriver]

Elaena Targaryen, on 03 February 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Well Shiera's eyes were distinctive as well and would have stood out even more to Tyrion because her eyes are mismatched in color like his. (I'm not sure on the colors though) Some like her for Quaithe and we are waiting for an eye dicription there too.

Shiera was a half sister to Bloodraven and Bittersteel.I was more wondering if Serra was of Shiera's line,if she had one?

I must read the other D&E stories.