47 replies to this topic

[Grand HeartTree]

I'm one of those people that loves Tyrion. I think he's one of the most well written characters in aSoIaF. This means of course, I want him to achieve greatness. I may have missed this in some other thread, but I wan't to point out a nice little bit of foreshadowing in the first book a Game of Thrones.
Jon's chapter starting on page 49 (in my pocket sized book) contains a small little segment involving Jon and Tyrion. On page 57 after the two finish speaking Tyrion exits with the narrative stating, "..Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king." I may be reading to much into this, but I think this is a hint to the grand finale. It just seems too odd to put in at that point unless it had a special meaning.

[Cat Stark]

I just read that chapter and thought the same. Jon had just been thinking that Jaime Lannister oa king and then comes the comment about Tyrion's shadow(Which btw i referred to in the new teaser from s2).
Either it's a foreshadow of his fate, OR, and more possibly, GRRM's way of saying(and foreshadowing in a sense), that the most unlikeliest persons makes the best kings. It's the start of the series and the first book, and it could be an overall message--> Just because you look(Jaime) the part(king), doesn't make you the part.

Maybe it's GRRM's way of saying, that in this book, this series, the most unlikely person will sit the iron throne(not necessarily Tyrion). In this book, good looks ain't going to make you survive.

Edited by Cat Stark, 03 February 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Grand HeartTree]

Cat Stark, on 03 February 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

I just read that chapter and thought the same. Jon had just been thinking that Jaime Lannister oa king and then comes the comment about Tyrion's shadow(Which btw i referred to in the new teaser from s2).
Either it's a foreshadow of his fate, OR, and more possibly, GRRM's way of saying(and foreshadowing in a sense), that the most unlikeliest persons makes the best kings. It's the start of the series and the first book, and it could be an overall message--> Just because you look(Jaime) the part(king), doesn't make you the part.

Maybe it's GRRM's way of saying, that in this book, this series, the most unlikely person will sit the iron throne(not necessarily Tyrion). In this book, good looks ain't going to make you survive.

Yeah, i can see the truth in that. I can't wait for the next book. Maybe Tyrion meets Danny. Wouldn't that be a dream team!

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Grand HeartTree, on 03 February 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

I'm one of those people that loves Tyrion. I think he's one of the most well written characters in aSoIaF. This means of course, I want him to achieve greatness. I may have missed this in some other thread, but I wan't to point out a nice little bit of foreshadowing in the first book a Game of Thrones.
Jon's chapter starting on page 49 (in my pocket sized book) contains a small little segment involving Jon and Tyrion. On page 57 after the two finish speaking Tyrion exits with the narrative stating, "..Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king." I may be reading to much into this, but I think this is a hint to the grand finale. It just seems too odd to put in at that point unless it had a special meaning.

I've just started my first re-read of the series and that jumped off the page at me. I can't believe I missed that the first time through.

[Rapsie]

There is also a bit in ADWD when Tyrion thinks that great events herald the broth of Kings when he is on the boat with Aegon and they see the great turtle. So the statement could apply to him too. Also Moroqqo (or whatever his name is) tells Tyrion that he is a small man with a long shadow, which could relate back to that first chapter.

However the chapter in AGOT has another possibility. Jon says to Benjen that Lady Stark thought it might be an insult to the Royal Family to sit a bastard amongst them, which would be ironic if R+L=J turns out to be true, because Jon is the king and Joff is the bastard. Also in the conversation in the yard, Jon notes that it feels funny to be taller than Tyrion. So the shadow of Tyrion could also highlight that at that moment, he is as tall as Jon, who is the King.

[rydis2]

sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Rapsie, on 03 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

There is also a bit in ADWD when Tyrion thinks that great events herald the broth of Kings when he is on the boat with Aegon and they see the great turtle. So the statement could apply to him too. Also Moroqqo (or whatever his name is) tells Tyrion that he is a small man with a long shadow, which could relate back to that first chapter.

However the chapter in AGOT has another possibility. Jon says to Benjen that Lady Stark thought it might be an insult to the Royal Family to sit a bastard amongst them, which would be ironic if R+L=J turns out to be true, because Jon is the king and Joff is the bastard. Also in the conversation in the yard, Jon notes that it feels funny to be taller than Tyrion. So the shadow of Tyrion could also highlight that at that moment, he is as tall as Jon, who is the King.

Gods what a dunce I am I did not connect that one. I am definately due for a re-read and I swear by the old gods and the new I will start right away!!! see I am The rest of your points were good also so thanks for posting your genius analyisis

[littleWalder]

I also just started rereading GOT and this made my eye-brow go up as well. There are quite a few "king" moments in the very first part of the book, this one for Tyrion, the "what a king should look like" for Jamie and then there is the "maybe a king is hidden in the snow. Snow, Ned." line from Robert, which hints at Jon's own fate.

[Ice Turtle]

Thinking about that only one thing came to mind: Mellisandre. Brrr.

[Rapsie]

Also AGOT was written before Internet forums and such like. I know at least one person who read AGOT and never picked up the slightest inkling that Jon might not be Ned's son.

Because we all discuss these clues, they suddenly seem very obvious, but I'm not sure we would pick up on them all if we weren't discussing it with each other.

Edit:
@ Elaena Targaryen

thank you and you are too kind.

Edited by Rapsie, 03 February 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[CC-Kingmaker]

oh boy...

I don't know about king but Tyrion was definitely the best Hand of the King, I would love to see him back there

[Golden&Crimson]

Rapsie, on 03 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Jon says to Benjen that Lady Stark thought it might be an insult to the Royal Family to sit a bastard amongst them, which would be ironic if R+L=J turns out to be true, because Jon is the king and Joff is the bastard. Also in the conversation in the yard, Jon notes that it feels funny to be taller than Tyrion. So the shadow of Tyrion could also highlight that at that moment, he is as tall as Jon, who is the King.

Jon is only a bastard: from Eddard or Rhaegar, doesn`t matter. Its a bastard with has much right to the throne has Gendry or Edric: no right to the throne.

Regarding Tyrion; he is one of my favorite characters: complex, inteligent, tragic, mischievous; but being a kinslayer (he murdered his own father!) the best fate he can achieve is an easy death.
Daenerys isnt that stupid in trusting (or showing trust) a member of a hated house and one that has killed his own father...
So, with a bit of sadness, im afraid that Tyrion (unless he escapes and go live somewhere) is dead meat.

[WhiteWolf26]

Golden&Crimson, on 03 February 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Jon is only a bastard: from Eddard or Rhaegar, doesn`t matter. Its a bastard with has much right to the throne has Gendry or Edric: no right to the throne.

There is no way to be certain of Jons legitamcy so stating it as a fact like that is ignorant.

[Rapsie]

The Targs practiced polygamy and their is a theory that Lyanna was Rheagar's second wife, which is why the three KG are with Jon and Lyanna and not Viserys.

[Mini-mitch]

I always thought there was some foreshadowing with Tyrion when in 'A Game of Thrones' he talks to Jon about his fascinations with dragons, wanting to ride one and look down upon the world as well as setting fire to stuff underneath Casterly Rock and wanting to see his father and sister burn.

I think his fascination with dragons and fire is touched upon again in ACOK. He also is the one who comes up with the idea of using the wildfire in the battle (I think).

I not sure if the references to Tyrion and dragons mean anything, but it might.

[Golden&Crimson]

WhiteWolf26, on 03 February 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

There is no way to be certain of Jons legitamcy so stating it as a fact like that is ignorant.

Jon is the offspring of a legitimate marriage between a man and a woman?
No?
Then he is a bastard.

[Nev yn]

Quote

Jon is the offspring of a legitimate marriage between a man and a woman?

If he's not, do you care to take a stab at explaining the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy when they knew both Rhaegar and Aerys was dead? If Jon was not legitimate, their vows would require them to go to protect Viserys at the first opportunity. We know Ned explicitly offered to let them, and they refused.

[Lady Olenna]

Rapsie, on 03 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

There is also a bit in ADWD when Tyrion thinks that great events herald the broth of Kings when he is on the boat with Aegon and they see the great turtle. So the statement could apply to him too. Also Moroqqo (or whatever his name is) tells Tyrion that he is a small man with a long shadow, which could relate back to that first chapter.

Mellisandre says essentially the same thing to Jon at the wall about casting a large shadow.

[Anvilbreaker]

Tyrion will never be king. He will find tysha and the two of them will live a modest life in some free city.

Or he dies a terrible, terrible death

[rydis2]

Mini-mitch, on 03 February 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

I always thought there was some foreshadowing with Tyrion when in 'A Game of Thrones' he talks to Jon about his fascinations with dragons, wanting to ride one and look down upon the world as well as setting fire to stuff underneath Casterly Rock and wanting to see his father and sister burn.

I think his fascination with dragons and fire is touched upon again in ACOK. He also is the one who comes up with the idea of using the wildfire in the battle (I think).

I not sure if the references to Tyrion and dragons mean anything, but it might.

One thing not to overlook in such a case as this..just ask yourself..how often do people in this series get what they want?

Tyrion has already made a huge impact on all of westeros..from being hand of the king..to completely changing decisive battle strategies by people by killing his father. If he ever meets Dany..I think the last changing accomplishment he shall have is to reveal young griff to her. By and large..Tyrion has achivement much..and casted a long shadow.