417 replies to this topic

[whitters23]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 01 June 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

And really, Gendry and Arya?  Baratheons (not that he's really one) and Starks are poison to each other – remember the dire wolf bitch killed by a stag at the very beginning of AGOT?  Arya is considered to be most like Lyanna; Lyanna didn't want Robert.  Sansa was supposed to marry a "Baratheon" and look how that turned out.  Robert basically killed The Ned by failing to give him the support he needed.  

I see so many people saying this and I really don't get it. In fact it seems that the Baratheons and Starks have always gotten along. I can't remember but I'm pretty sure there was mention of how they've always been allies.
One romance not working out does not mean the families are poison for each other. Like you said Joffrey is not a Baratheon, he's a Lannister. And the direwolf in the beginning is foretelling Ned's death (and likely Robert's too as the stag probably didn't get far before he died too) but I don't think it was really saying 'Baratheons kill Starks!'

Quote

But more important to the Gendry/Arya situation is the fact that he is a follower of R'hllor and she is a follower of the old gods.  Do you really want Gendry anywhere near a godswood?

I doubt he is really that invested in R'hllor. He admired Beric and Thoros and their justice and one can't deny the power of the red god... but I can't see him as being devout like Davos' son or anything. Technically she's a follower of the one true god right now, Death.

Quote

IMO, the great unrequited Stark love story was between Ned and Ashara Dayne, so if a Ned look-alike and an Ashara look-alike should get together, that would be a very happy closing of the circle IMO.  On the other hand I don't believe Arya will have a conventional relationship once she sets her mind on such things.  What is she now, 11?  Can we not set her future in stone so early?

This would be interesting too. I'm not sold completely on the Ned/Ashara ship because we really don't know much about them (although I could have just missed stuff in my first read through) but if their love really was as tragic as it's made out to be I could get behind a Stark and a Dayne coming together to fulfill what never was. I like that poetic symmetry which is a big reason why I like what's been set up for Gendry and Arya. I especially like it if his true parentage was never revealed to either of them.

Of course her future is not set in stone. Nothing is a sure thing in this series! But it's fun to discuss and debate. And if we couldn't discuss the futures for the young characters in this series there would be very little to talk about wouldn't there.

[ARYa_Nym]

Technically Ashara and little Ned didn't look alike. I imagine him looking like Arthur Dayne even though we don't have a physical description of him. I imagine Arthur to be a handsome companion of Rhaegar although not as good looking of course. Little Ned doesn't have purple eyes though, (they look purple) and I'm not sure if Arthur did like his sister.

Ashara either had a short-lived fling/romance with Ned, Brandon, both, or neither.

I think Arya is somewhat like Brandon though.

Quote

"Maybe I never saw a camel," she would tell them, "but I know a camel's cunt when I smell one."

Quote

Gyloro Dothare taught her filthy songs...and taught her speeches from The Song of the Rhoyne, The Conqueror’s Two Wives, and The Merchant’s Lusty Lady.

Quote

Quote

“I want it sharp enough to shave the hair from a woman’s cunt,” he used to say.”

They both use foul language. I can't imagine Ned or Cat doing that. We know little of Brandon but based on what we know he could have a certain lack of propriety when he wanted to and loved to use his "sword." I felt like that was a double reference to fighting and sex. Arya loves "needlework".

It's possible that Brandon's wildness and fire appealed to Ashara over Ned who was mud but I'm not sure that she didn't still turn to him for comfort.

I thought that the whole Ashara/Ned had the potential to be tragic and romantic. He returns Arthur's sword to the woman he may have loved. He had a part to play in her brother's death. They didn't want to fight each other. Ned can't marry her because he fulfilled his duty to Catelyn. She's waiting for him at the Starfall and possibly told him where Lyanna was maybe knowing what might happen. The Brandon thing lessons it (imo cheapens and ruins the romantic potential) although it would help to further explain Ned's bitterness towards his brother. "Everything was meant for him" as if to say he got everything in life. Even Ashara?

Edited by ARYa_Nym, 01 June 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Artemis]

Sand Snake No. 9, on 01 June 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

On the other hand I don't believe Arya will have a conventional relationship once she sets her mind on such things.  What is she now, 11?  Can we not set her future in stone so early?

That's the thing though, isn't it? Arya's future, as of right now, is the one farthest from being set in stone. There are many ways she could possibly go and many decisions she has yet to make and they will all be hers to make. I also don't see her in any type of conventional relationship.

Oh and I believe she is 12 nearing 13 as of calculating the moon turns in Braavos...

[Lyanna Stark]

ARYa_Nym, on 01 June 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I thought that the whole Ashara/Ned had the potential to be tragic and romantic. He returns Arthur's sword to the woman he may have loved. He had a part to play in her brother's death. They didn't want to fight each other. Ned can't marry her because he fulfilled his duty to Catelyn. She's waiting for him at the Starfall and possibly told him where Lyanna was maybe knowing what might happen. The Brandon thing lessons it (imo cheapens and ruins the romantic potential) although it would help to further explain Ned's bitterness towards his brother. "Everything was meant for him" as if to say he got everything in life. Even Ashara?

Yes, I think it's been hinted that Ned fancied Ashara but it was Brandon who got her, and got her with child, too (which eventually killed her). Cat was meant for Brandon too. As we know, Brandon also had a dalliance with Lady Hornwood so he seemed to have got around a fair bit.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

There is no sweet lovin' in this series. Romance is either forbidden, complicated, or tragic. No happy endings. If there's one character I wish to find happiness and love in the end, it's Sansa. Jon too but he took a vow. Danaerys.............. meh, not so much.

[Legitimate Businessman]

What about Samwell Tarly and his hand?

[Woman of War]

I am sure that every poster here is aware of the inherent tragedy of these books and that the story is not about romance and shipping, stuff for hot nightly dreams and everafterhappiness - yet each poster wants the BIIIIG exception for the one character she or he is rooting for, protective of, infatuated with.........

Oh please Mr Martin, god of the realm, let my secret dream come true......!

[Silverin]

I actually think love in the series is an incredible central point. I can only think at Barristan in Dance, when he thinks about all the wars that was caused by love. Of course nothing is that simple, but claimin it is not a central theme is just as wrong as claiming that it will be disney story.
Just because love is a major theme doesn't mean big happy endings, and happily ever afters will be all over be the place.

A few relationships: Jorah and his wife Lynette, they married for love, and then she eloped. If I remember correctly she has a lover right now?
Jeyne and Robb: even Cat noticed that Robb genuenly cares about Jeyne. And even Jeyne was distraught about Robb, it is not easy to believe that she had a huge crush on him.
Doran and his wife: married for love, living in different cities
Lysa and LF: disaster
Renly and Loras
Cat and Ned
etc...

Love is hard to define, romantic love more so. It is hard to tell wheere is the line between crush, and romantic love. Especially since being attracted to other people is compeletly normal, we have hormons and becuase of them we can be attracted to certain people while absolutely don't to others.
And yes women have hormons as well, and no they are not shallow for the very same natured desires that for men are seen as natural.

Happily ever afters when it comes to the series concerning the main protagnosist about romantic love? Honestly I don't think any of them will get it.
Jon: probably will come through some kind of resurrection, it definietly will alter his personality. But if he has one I could see Val more likely than anyone else.
tyrion: is uncapable to form a helthy relationship with a woman. So never will happen.
Bran: he seems to be about to become a tree. ANd he has a habit of warging Hodor, which is not okay...
Theon:...
Arya: she is still a kid
Sansa: she is still a kid, if she becomes a septa, later I can see a platonic love forming with one of the silent brothers..., but in a political marriage? I don't think so....
Asha: well Asha and Quarl are a thing, though she can't really marry him, but I can see them lasting even if she marries for political reasons
Dany: I think she will die (because of the prophecies)
Jaime: pretty sure he will die, so I don't think he will be together with Brienne
Brienne: don't think she and Jaime can happen, and it will crush her. Maybe she accepts the propsal of an ambitous lord, but that won't make a happy ending for her either.
Oh that reminded me, a marriage that I think can be good is Myrcella and Tristan. But I think the adults will destroy their future...

So honestly I almos think no happy romance will happen, call me disillusioned.

[Kittykatknits]

Brandonarya Stark, on 12 January 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

There is no sweet lovin' in this series. Romance is either forbidden, complicated, or tragic. No happy endings. If there's one character I wish to find happiness and love in the end, it's Sansa. Jon too but he took a vow. Danaerys.............. meh, not so much.

Silverin, on 12 January 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

I actually think love in the series is an incredible central point. I can only think at Barristan in Dance, when he thinks about all the wars that was caused by love. Of course nothing is that simple, but claimin it is not a central theme is just as wrong as claiming that it will be disney story.
Just because love is a major theme doesn't mean big happy endings, and happily ever afters will be all over be the place.
<snip>

I think love is very central to the series, much more so than may be obvious at first. I'm writing a series of feminist-related themes in the p2p thread right now and posted up an essay on the many forms of love within ASOIAF. It's pretty apparent that love is a big factor in character development and plot progression. I think we often associate love with the idea of two people meeting, falling in love, and riding off in to the sunset together but that's just one interpretation.

Prior to this, the previous subject was marriage and its many presentations within the series, whether that was arranged marriages, love matches, wildling practices, and salt wives. The discussion around this topic was excellent and I have to say, it led to more reasons to hope for a positive outcome than may be evident at first.
http://asoiaf.wester...60#entry3988905

[Le Cygne]

Woman of War, on 12 January 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

I am sure that every poster here is aware of the inherent tragedy of these books and that the story is not about romance and shipping, stuff for hot nightly dreams and everafterhappiness - yet each poster wants the BIIIIG exception for the one character she or he is rooting for, protective of, infatuated with.........

Oh please Mr Martin, god of the realm, let my secret dream come true......!

Isn't that what storytelling is all about, though?  Throughout the ages, people are drawn together through stories.  

Case in point, Westeros.  In the Dunk and Egg story, The Hedge Knight, the people gathered around to see the story of Florian and Jonquil in the puppet show.  And when someone attacked the puppeteers, the people rallied around a certain true knight who defended them.  But wasn't it Florian and Jonquil that drew the people together?  And wasn't the story coming to life when Dunk did what he did?

If these are not romances, then why all the longing, thoughts of kisses, kisses, making love.  Complete with a varying array of phallic symbols, GRRM style (when he talks about the point of a blade, and many times a dagger, hint, hint, hint, he's talking about sex).  Fat pink mast, Myrish swamp, bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, ...  we didn't make this stuff up, he did.

Years after reading Gone With The Wind, a story that's also filled with tragedy, I'm still wondering, did Rhett ever take Scarlet back?  He was crazy about her, but maybe there comes a time when it's too late.  So it's no wonder we are all thinking about what will become of all the star-crossed lovers or wanna be lovers in this series, too.

Edited by Le Cygne, 12 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[Quiet Isle]

Folks, I just can never see a Stark wedding his aunt.  Jon and Dany are never gonna happen.  i don't care if they are targs.  Dany's job is to get those dragons to jon.  that's it.   imho,

[den]

I would like to see Jon and Val as a couple

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't know who I 'want' together, I'll trust GRRM to write the story how he writes it

[Brienne Of Bombay]

I hope Brienne and Jamie end up together.. although I think its most unlikely.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Val and her King Jon!

Arianne&Euron
Willas&Sansa
Maege&Tormund
Mance&Alysane
Stannis&Mel
Davos&Marya
Αrya&Ned Dayne

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't really want a romantic relationship for Sandor or Sansa yetbecause she's way too young, I JUST WANT HER TO GIVE SANDOR A KISS ON THE CHEEK, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK

Brienne Of Bombay, on 02 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I hope Brienne and Jamie end up together.. although I think its most unlikely.

I don't think they'll 'end up together' but hopefully they'll be some more little hinted romantic moments. SEXUAL TENSION.

Edited by ~Mya Bara Stone~, 02 February 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[cortchuzska]

Come on, people, that's GRRM, and you are looking for romance happy ending?
Quite honestly. the only “happily ever after” I can believe in is Fat Walda and Roose Bolton.
Because the Freys and the Boltons are the most hated Houses, and besides, Roose is not a man to be undone.

I find Cersi/Jaime the best romance ever, and really rewarding from a reader's viewpoint. Their love is true love, they have been in love since they can remember, their love quite literally tore the Seven Kingdoms apart...

But that's Ice&Fire...Everyone can break up.

Edited by cortchuzska, 02 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Theda Baratheon]

cortchuzska, on 02 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Come on, people, that's GRRM, and you are looking for romance happy ending?
Quite honestly. the only “happily ever after” I can believe in is Fat Walda and Roose Bolton.
Because the Freys and the Boltons are the most hated Houses, and besides, Roose is not a man to be undone.

I find Cersi/Jaime the best romance ever, and really rewarding from a reader's viewpoint. Their love is true love, they have been in love since they can remember, their love quite literally tore the Seven Kingdoms apart...

But that's Ice&Fire...Everyone can break up.

um
gonna have to disagree there, haha.