236 replies to this topic

[vogorroswhore]

I can't think of any Westerosi (or Essosi) religion I would put my faith in.

The Seven:  have an institutional hierarchy similar to the Catholic church which is either utterly corrupt or pious to the point of violently enforcing religious doctrine, the gods seem pretty useless, their "saints" such as Baelor the Blessed sound like fun-hating jerks

The Old Gods:  now we know that these are basically a bunch of gross, half-rotten tree symbionts who may or may not derive their power from eating weirwood paste mixed with the blood of innocent crannogmen.

R'hllor (and the Other):  I'll give it to R'hllor...he has cool powers.  Fire magic, glamoring, resurrecting the dead, seeing the future, birthing shadow assassins, etc.  However, the Lord of Light is way too into human sacrifice, slavery, and exterminating non-believers for my taste.

The Drowned God (and the Storm God):  I'm going to pass on undergoing a ritual drowning.  Plus, no disrespect to Sebastian the Crab and other proponents of life under the sea, but spending eternity feasting in "watery halls" sounds cold and miserable.

Mother Rhoyne:  That's a whole lot of superstition about a river that flows past a leper colony.

The Many-Faced God:  All these annoying religions rolled up into one, and the main ritual for supplicants is assisted suicide, followed by turning your face into a mask for a fanatic assassin to use.

The Great Stallion:  Only the Dothraki can get into horse worship.

The Great Shepherd: This god doesn't do a whole lot for "the Lamb Men" besides make them obvious targets for repeated Dothraki ass-whippings.  Whatever goes on in the Great Shepherd religion, it doesn't sound like it's very useful for avoiding regular raping/pillaging/selling into slavery.

Summer Islander religion:  I'm all for free love, but I'm going to skip working in a brothel.  Also, any faith that is invoked to encourage Samwell Tarly to have a stomach-churning sex scene with whimpering, inbred Gilly is not for me.

...I can't think of any other religions from the book.  Any I missed?

Regardless, I think that I'd be pretty content with atheism if I were Westerosi.

[estella]

On one hand, I just can't find it in me to believe that a higher power rules over my life, and I'd be the same in Westeros. However, there are exceedingly stressful situations where it's reassuring to pray to anything/anyone, so in those cases I'd probably pray to the Seven. So I'm sort of agnostic, I guess.
There's problems in every religion, even today. I just don't like the idea of an organized faith.

Edited by fiertelannister, 05 February 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Old Gods all the way. Whatever they are, they at least exist.

And I see no hard evidence that anyone actually ate Jojen.

[Jamie Lannister]

R'hllor seems legit.

Totally not just because I'd want a flaming sword.

[Arkash]

Yes. There has never been any God, nor will there ever be one...

I am an atheist and this is it.

Edited by Arkash, 05 February 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Apple Martini, on 05 February 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Old Gods all the way. Whatever they are, they at least exist.

And I see no hard evidence that anyone actually ate Jojen.

Where did this idea come from? I read it on a thread on the ADWD subforum and I was like, wtf?  

About the topic, I'm also with the Old Gods, I like the whole idea of the Children, the roots and the weirdwoods. Trees are nice

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 05 February 2012 - 02:25 PM.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

If I lived in Westeros and was an Atheist I'm not sure I'd admit to being one. Regardless of your religious beliefs you'd have to pay lip service to one of them. So I guess I'd go with whatever religion I was born into. I'd go with the the Faith of the Seven.

Edited by Arch-MaesterPhilip, 05 February 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Anvilbreaker]

The great other for me. Cold and darkness all the way

[Grip]

The advantage with the seven is that its possible to make a career as a member of the faith, getting rich in the process. As High Septon you would be rich indeed.. This is a strong argument imo and one that the others simply cant compete with, based on the few high priests we have seen..Chataya? A brothel owner, hardly glamorous..Aeron? Come on, the guy is just an upjumped beggar..Now the high septon gets the best deal, unless he is just torn to pieces by a raging mob that is..

Edit: To be honest though I would just go with the flow, where I in the north the old gods would appeal to me and the seven further south..

Edited by Grip, 05 February 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[vogorroswhore]

Apple Martini, on 05 February 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

And I see no hard evidence that anyone actually ate Jojen.

Val the Wildling Princess, on 05 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Where did this idea come from? I read it on a thread on the ADWD subforum and I was like, wtf?  

This came from the suggestion that the weirwood paste Bran ate in ADWD looked like it was streaked with blood, and Jojen hasn't been seen for awhile, and Meera's is worried about it (details are discussed in several other ADWD threads).  It could be either Jojen blood or weirwood sap, but there's no hard evidence.

Either way, I don't care how much time travel eavesdropping I could ultimately do as an Old God, spending centuries turning into a tree sounds super lame.

[Winter's Lady]

vogorroswhore, on 05 February 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

The Great Stallion:  Only the Dothraki can get into horse worship.

Hey! Horsies are the bestest! (coming from a lifelong passionate rider, not a little girl   )

Being an atheist in real life, I can't believe that there is any higher power watching over me or guarding me or guiding me or whatever, neither do I believe in heaven or hell.

But in Westeros it would be the Old Gods for me. Trees are cool, and they don't require much worshipping or anything.
I also like the idea of seven entities being different aspects of one god, so the Seven might be an option.
Maybe I could do it like the Stark kids and go with both.

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 05 February 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[SerMilady]

Old Gods no doubt. The fact that they don't have any real names/identities (so far, anyway), the weirdwood trees I like so much, the children of the forest... it's all very appealing to me.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

vogorroswhore, on 05 February 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

This came from the suggestion that the weirwood paste Bran ate in ADWD looked like it was streaked with blood, and Jojen hasn't been seen for awhile, and Meera's is worried about it (details are discussed in several other ADWD threads).  It could be either Jojen blood or weirwood sap, but there's no hard evidence.

Either way, I don't care how much time travel eavesdropping I could ultimately do as an Old God, spending centuries turning into a tree sounds super lame.

Uhm, thanks! I think I missed the part when Jojen was missing

[vogorroswhore]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 05 February 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Hey! Horsies are the bestest! (coming from a lifelong passionate rider, not a little girl   )

I love horses too, and I like the idea of eternity galloping across the Night Lands, but...I'd steer clear of Dothraki stallion worship only on the off chance I might become Khaleesi someday and wind up having to eat a gigantic, raw, still-beating horse heart.  Vile.

[Arkash]

If I remember correctly, Jojen was seen again after Bran ate the paste... if I remember correctly !

At least once.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Feel like there is some confusion in the original post about what it means to be an atheist. It's not a matter of disagreeing with the structures or dogma of a particular religion but of not believing in any god in any form. IRL I am an atheist not because I've looked at all religions and decided I don't like their beliefs (a lot of religious mythology contains useful/interesting messages), but because I don't think the idea of god makes any sense.

Which makes the question of whether I'd be an atheist in Westeros very interesting. Because while I dislike the practices of some of their religions more than some real world religions, it seems like their gods might actually exist! It's unclear if R'Hollor is a font of power that enables Red Priests to work magic or if magic exists as a naturally occurring thing in the world of Westeros and the concept of R'Hollor is applied to explain this natural phenomenon (which is what we do in our world imo). But if it's the former rather than the latter, and we may never know which it is, I would not be an atheist in Westeros because I would have proof of the Red God's existence.

[Winter's Lady]

vogorroswhore, on 05 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I love horses too, and I like the idea of eternity galloping across the Night Lands, but...I'd steer clear of Dothraki stallion worship only on the off chance I might become Khaleesi someday and wind up having to eat a gigantic, raw, still-beating horse heart.  Vile.

Very true. That scene made me queasy in the books!
And on the show...ugh don't even think about it

[Arkash]

It's about the way we are raised too...

I was raised irl an atheist.

But who knows if born in Westeros, my uncle would not have been a septon for example...

[Victaerys]

Of course I'd be an atheist. I just wouldn't be so stupid as to tell anybody - medieval people generally didn't like infidels, and even though the Westerosi seem to be a bit more tolerant in the matters of religion, I don't think the tolerance would be extended to people who refuse the very idea of God(s).

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Victaerys, on 05 February 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Of course I'd be an atheist. I just wouldn't be so stupid as to tell anybody - medieval people generally didn't like infidels, and even though the Westerosi seem to be a bit more tolerant in the matters of religion, I don't think the tolerance would be extended to people who refuse the very idea of God(s).

I just had this very same discussion with someone.