150 replies to this topic

[DornishKnight]

We all know Dany is built up as the Targ who will return to Westeros and unite it (chapter upon chapter has been dedicated to it). There is a prophecy about a Mummer's Dragon she will overthrow and one has just appeared.  Pieces have also entered her neighborhood who might convince her to start moving.

I think Martin is preparing for another one of his signature twists and it goes something like this:
(Bear with me)
Aegon (whatever he is doesn't matter, "Power lies where men believe it resides") is EXACTLY what Westeros needs. His short realm will be dedicated to patching the realm, executing the scum, redeeming the debt, etc.
Along comes Dany with her "I am the blood of the dragon". She knocks down Aegon, shatters the hope of peace and returns the realm into its natural state of conflict.  As she, ignorant of the Others, threatens to doom the realm, Azor Asshai (Jon) emerges via a sacrifice by Stannis to oppose her.
In the end, though, it will be Arya who defeats Dany.  Arya, the orphaned outcast forced to survive on her own, will kill Dany, the orphaned outcast. The end will be tragic (satisfying?) because we will have known Dany personally throughout the series.

Simply put, Dany is going to be one hell of a final boss.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Seems completely out of character but other than that, great theory!!!

[The King in the South]

God Rhillor I hope not. That sounds like a terrible finish for the 8000 chapters we've had devoted to her.

Edited by The King in the South, 06 February 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[Apple Martini]

As long as her ass isn't polishing the Iron Throne, I don't care what happens to her.

[Lady Kraken]

Interesting. I do definitely agree with you on point--I really, really think that Arya is going to kill Dany. It's just feeling, but I can't shake it. There HAS to be a meaningful reason for Arya joining up with the Faceless Men. Her training should be relevant to her character's future somehow, like taking out one of the big players in Westeros. The FM can't be assigned to kill someone they know, and Arya has no idea who Dany is. Braavos is founded by people who fled Valyria, right? I can't imagine them reacting positively to a Targ with dragons running around burning up the East. If the FM and the Iron Bank are connected, the IB may not trust a Targ to pay off a Baratheon's debt. And there's plenty of people who who would want to take Dany out once she arrives--does LF have connections out there? Varys? I don't think he's all that invested in Dany, especially if she ends up turning on Aegon.

[Angarwaen]

DornishKnight, on 06 February 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Aegon (whatever he is doesn't matter, "Power lies where men believe it resides") is EXACTLY what Westeros needs. His short realm will be dedicated to patching the realm, executing the scum, redeeming the debt, etc.
Along comes Dany with her "I am the blood of the dragon". She knocks down Aegon, shatters the hope of peace and returns the realm into its natural state of conflict.  

Eh ? Why would she actually do that ? I mean, y'know, she is dedicated to House Targaryen at the end of the day. And if she meets Aegon, she would assume he is a real Targaryen and the true heir.

Ah, scrap it actually. I do want her to beat the living crap out of everybody, destitute all the Houses that joined the Usurper, conquer all of Essos as well, unleash dragonfire on the Others and settle down at age 30, Mistress of Martinworld.

[DornishKnight]

In case you guys can't tell, I am no fan of Dany. If she is the messiah that saves Westeros it will be the most bland, generic ending imaginable.

Her as a villain (one we've come to know very well) would be more interesting, and possibly tragic.

Remember Pre-ASOS? If someone had suggested to you that Robb will lose due to his honor and be betrayed, what would have been your reaction then?

The King in the South, on 06 February 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

God Rhillor I hope not. That sounds like a terrible finish for the 8000 chapters we've had devoted to her.

Precisely.

[Sevumar]

DornishKnight, on 06 February 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Aegon (whatever he is doesn't matter, "Power lies where men believe it resides") is EXACTLY what Westeros needs. His short realm will be dedicated to patching the realm, executing the scum, redeeming the debt, etc.

My thoughts were that if we were going to see a "peaceful interlude" that allows the realm to take a deep breath and make some preparations before facing the winter and the Others, it would've had to happen by the end of ADWD. The war was starting to wind down toward the beginning of ADWD, but Aegon's arrival and Kevan's assassination pretty much destroyed the chances of a calm before the snowstorm.

I don't see Dany doing as you've described. I think she'll make some blunders and miscalculations that will hurt the realm and her chances of ruling it for very long (if at all), but I think we'll see her in action against the Others. There's been some foreshadowing in that direction since pretty early in the series.

[Sevumar]

Angarwaen, on 06 February 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Ah, scrap it actually. I do want her to beat the living crap out of everybody, destitute all the Houses that joined the Usurper, conquer all of Essos as well, unleash dragonfire on the Others and settle down at age 30, Mistress of Martinworld.

Gosh, I hope this doesn't happen.

I actually think it would be kind of neat if the series ended with her becoming Viserys/Maegor/Aerys, and Barristan becoming Jaime and finally getting it.

[Angarwaen]

LadyKraken, on 06 February 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Interesting. I do definitely agree with you on point--I really, really think that Arya is going to kill Dany. It's just feeling, but I can't shake it. There HAS to be a meaningful reason for Arya joining up with the Faceless Men. Her training should be relevant to her character's future somehow, like taking out one of the big players in Westeros. The FM can't be assigned to kill someone they know, and Arya has no idea who Dany is. Braavos is founded by people who fled Valyria, right? I can't imagine them reacting positively to a Targ with dragons running around burning up the East. If the FM and the Iron Bank are connected, the IB may not trust a Targ to pay off a Baratheon's debt. And there's plenty of people who who would want to take Dany out once she arrives--does LF have connections out there? Varys? I don't think he's all that invested in Dany, especially if she ends up turning on Aegon.

Whatever the connection between the Iron Bank and the Faceless Men, the FM don't assassinate unless they're paid. And as Littlefinger (I think it's him) says, the payment to the FM is proportional to the importance of the target - so the price for Daenerys would be really, really, really heavy.

And for the Iron Bank, well, they're a bank. They don't care who is on the Throne, as long as they can do good business.

DornishKnight, on 06 February 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

In case you guys can't tell, I am no fan of Dany. If she is the messiah that saves Westeros it will be the most bland, generic ending imaginable.

Her as a villain (one we've come to know very well) would be more interesting, and possibly tragic.

I don't think we'll see her as a "villain", but a tragic character is a possibility (and I agree, more interesting than her just winning, etc. Even if I want her to win.)

[Apple Martini]

Sevumar, on 06 February 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

I actually think it would be kind of neat if the series ended with her becoming Viserys/Maegor/Aerys, and Barristan becoming Jaime and finally getting it.

That would actually be pretty damn awesome.

[DornishKnight]

Sevumar, on 06 February 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

Gosh, I hope this doesn't happen.

I actually think it would be kind of neat if the series ended with her becoming Viserys/Maegor/Aerys, and Barristan becoming Jaime and finally getting it.

YES! Good gods, yes.

Sevumar, on 06 February 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

My thoughts were that if we were going to see a "peaceful interlude" that allows the realm to take a deep breath and make some preparations before facing the winter and the Others, it would've had to happen by the end of ADWD. The war was starting to wind down toward the beginning of ADWD, but Aegon's arrival and Kevan's assassination pretty much destroyed the chances of a calm before the snowstorm.

I think what's going to happen to Aegon (through Arianne's POV) is:
"It is my duty to rule, it is what I have been taught to do.  These are all the great plans I've got salvage the realm. It's a good thing I'm going to win because I'm not going to torch everyone like Aeryss and I'm not going tolerate the crap Robert tolerated. Yep, everything is going to be...BLECH. Oh Crap, I'm dead."

[tze]

I think Dany will end up clashing with Jon (she dreamed of fighting an army armored in ice, Jon dreamed of being armored in ice) and losing rather spectacularly. She doesn't know winter, and winter doesn't know her.

[Apple Martini]

tze, on 06 February 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think Dany will end up clashing with Jon (she dreamed of fighting an army armored in ice, Jon dreamed of being armored in ice) and losing rather spectacularly. She doesn't know winter, and winter doesn't know her.

Yep, I thought this was significant too. Jon also has the benefit — if it's a benefit? — of embodying both ice and fire. Dany is fire-only, coming to a continent (eventually) that's steeped in a harsh winter.

[Lady Kraken]

Angarwaen, on 06 February 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

And for the Iron Bank, well, they're a bank. They don't care who is on the Throne, as long as they can do good business.

Here, I disagree. They are not just a bank, and I'm almost certain they have some sort of agenda. But we'll see.

And the payment to the FM does not necessarily have to be just money, it can be a sacrifice as well--though I agree it would have to be a very heavy sacrifice.

[DornishHighlander]

Personally I think Arya's business is on the Wall and not in the East. However for the sake of argument and debate if Arya, FM, and Dany cross paths this is how I think it will go down.

In the whole series the woman with the greatest potential for power is Sansa. Now I agree that

"Power lies where men believe it resides" and that Aegon is what the realm needs whether he is Targareyn or Blackfyre either way if he is to be King he must have a wife. Sansa at the moment would stand to inherit the North, the Riverlands by birth of Tully blood (should anything happen to Edmure even if nothing does he and the Riverlords would rather bend the knee to Sansa than LF or a Frey), the Vale should she we Harry and Robert dies. Now they could all lie and say she consummated her marriage with Tyrion and for crime against his house Aegon wishes for Lannister house and line to be extinguish or at least disinherited or exiled. LF would claim the Westlands in the Sansa's name as a Lannister.

[left]My point is as with Varys' riddle GRRM is very very deliberate writer, Now besides emphasizing how expensive the FM are in AGOT, the fact it's LF who brings it to our attention is it not implausible he will hire them to remove Dany as she could threaten Sansa's and thereby LF's ascension to power. It would set Arya in motion and possibly reunite her and Sansa.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I thought the whole Arya killing Dany through the FM is plausible because the Braavosi hate dragongs, the FM started as a defiance to the dragonlords. So why would they not send Arya to kill Dany? I don't think they will because of this...

tze, on 06 February 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think Dany will end up clashing with Jon (she dreamed of fighting an army armored in ice, Jon dreamed of being armored in ice) and losing rather spectacularly. She doesn't know winter, and winter doesn't know her.

This is important in my opinion and needs to be taken into consideration, so it ruins my fun of speculating because I think this has to happen first.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

iron Bank is not gonna support the Targaryens. They hate dragons.

[David Selig]

DornishKnight, on 06 February 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Aegon (whatever he is doesn't matter, "Power lies where men believe it resides") is EXACTLY what Westeros needs. His short realm will be dedicated to patching the realm, executing the scum, redeeming the debt, etc.

Aegon needs to fight a war to get on the Iron Throne. How exactly is another bloody war just when the Winter is starting and much of the realm is still in ruins, what Westeros needs?

And the guy has zero experience at governing anything. I don't care if he was taught by the biggest geniuses and badasses in the world, he's still a teenager who can easily be a complete failure as a King.

[David C. Hunter]

Apple Martini, on 06 February 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

Yep, I thought this was significant too. Jon also has the benefit — if it's a benefit? — of embodying both ice and fire. Dany is fire-only, coming to a continent (eventually) that's steeped in a harsh winter.

Whenever I read that I realize that this story almost has to come down between north and south, dragon an wolf, etc. Dany will probably be the antagonist. I think how Dany handles Mereen will show us exactly what she will become in westeros. Winter is coming for Danerys Stormborn