174 replies to this topic

[House Martell]

dtones520, on 12 February 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

But why would the Vale join the fight now? They are most prepared for Winter. Why do they care about anything that took place in the Riverlands? They have enough problems of their own in the fact that their Liege Lord is a sickly, bratty, runt and is being used by Littlefinger. As far as they know the Starks are pretty much all dead, even though their is one right under their nose.

The Vale lords wanted to fight all along, the only reason they didn't was Lysa wouldn't let them. And they might rally around BF to take out LF and sick boy. I don't know who the Vale lords support as King, Stannis is still out there, maybe they want a separate kingdom (with Tywin gone they prob don't fear the Lannisters and the boy king) Who knows...

[crown of gold]

The Vale was against fighting in the war because Lysa was against fighting in the war.  Lysa is now dead and with Littlefinger in charge a lot has changed.  The Lords of the Vale never lost any respect for the Blackfish when he left because most of them new just like the Blackfish that Lysa was crazy.  He has many allies in the Vale more so than any other place, and it is one of the few places he can go where he knows he wont encounter any Lannisters or Freys

[crown of gold]

Also of all the seven kingdoms I believe the Vale is best positioned to make a major move come winter than any of the other kingdoms.  They have waited patiently, and they are better prepared for the coming winter than any other kingdom aside from Dorne presumably where winter will not be as harsh.  I believe the Vale has been waiting for their time, and now with Littlefinger as Lord Regent I think they will definitely make a move.  Littlefinger is too ambitious and too sly to not be planning something major, and I think once this plan is about to go into action our friend the Blackfish shows up

[Ser Wun Wun]

Wouldn't he have trouble getting into the Vale with winter already here?  I thought the Bloody Gate was sealed off or something, didn't someone tell Brienne that in AFFC?  My memory is a little off on this so I could be wrong.

Joining up with the BwB is a possibility, and I think seeing Cat like she is now would be devastating for him.  It would make for a good scene if Jaime or Brienne witnessed that.

I don't want him to go to the Vale, because I want Sansa to rescue herself from LF.  No heroic knight should come for her, because 'life is not a song' and she needs to learn that.  Until she does, she will always be a pawn and not a player, and that's not what I want for her.

[Lady Octarina]

I agree with Ser Wun Wun, it would be much more interesting for the narrative if the Blackfish didn't go to he Vale and Sansa found her way out of the situation she's in. But I do think he could find a way to get in there, even if the Gates are sealed, and the mountain clans trying to kill anyone, etc. He lived there for too many years, he probably knows secret passages inside, safer routes, things like that.

[dtones520]

crown of gold, on 13 February 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

Also of all the seven kingdoms I believe the Vale is best positioned to make a major move come winter than any of the other kingdoms.  They have waited patiently, and they are better prepared for the coming winter than any other kingdom aside from Dorne presumably where winter will not be as harsh.  I believe the Vale has been waiting for their time, and now with Littlefinger as Lord Regent I think they will definitely make a move.  Littlefinger is too ambitious and too sly to not be planning something major, and I think once this plan is about to go into action our friend the Blackfish shows up

The Vale may be in the best position to fight a war right now, that doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do before Winter. We all know winter is harsh in the vale, the Vale is more than ready for it to survive. The Riverlands are decimated, the North is running thin, why back them in a war against the Lannister and Tyrells who are also very well provisioned with Lannister gold and Highgardens lands haven't been touched by this war. They also think Dorne is on the side of the Lannister, even though we know they truly aren't.

The Vale Lords would be idiotic to go to war, especially for the Blackfishes losing cause, right now. Survive winter, then make your move, because winter is going to wreck havoc on the north and riverlands. Or just bend the knee to whomever wins the Throne and go on about your lives.

[HyacinthGirl]

I think he'll have gone to Greywater Watch: it's hard to get to, but not too far away, and once there, it would be impossible for him (and pregnant Jeyne?) to be found. Also, he probably knew that some of Robb's men were headed there anyway.
He may have headed North, so another possibility is Bear Island. Again, without money it would be very difficult for him to reach it, but it's safer than the rest of the North due to the lack of Boltons.
But, he may run into UnCat and the BWB in the Riverlands. That would be very interesting. We could see it through a Jaime or Brienne POV.

[Ashkan Stark]

I guess Cat will find him somehow, cause she knows what is going on in in her old home trough Tom O'Sevens. but it will be a lot more intersting if he goes north and somehow find Davos with Rickon and Osha.
I don't believe in Vale theory. Those cowards didn't help Robb when he was powerfull,why would they help Blackfish?

[Nev yn]

Quote

Those cowards didn't help Robb when he was powerfull,why would they help Blackfish?

For what must be the fifth time in this thread, because they wanted to help but Lysa forbade it (she required that their only concern be the immediate personal safety of her son).

[crown of gold]

I never meant that the Vale would immediately decide to attack and join whatever cause the Blackfish wants to fight for.  My point was once the Winter wreaks havoc a little more the Vale could be the beneficiary come Spring, and be in a better position than most of the other kingdoms.  and the blackfish has just escaped Riverun while it was surrounded by Lannisters and Freys I'm sure he can find a way into the Vale especially since he was the Knight of the Gate, and I believe it can still be opened for friendlies during the Winter.

[The Blade of Greenwood]

I see him in the Vale because he spent time there and Robin Aryn is his niece's son. But I see him figuring out who Sansa is only to be killed soon after by Little Finger.

[TheHedgeWizard]

i think the only plausible scenario with blackfish is that he will meet up with the BwB and uncat. Him meeting UnCat would be interesting.

[Holmes]

^{You're all wrong.  BF went to Dorne so he could taste the Dornishman's Wife. (or Husband, as the case may be), and accomplish nothing, like everyone else from there.}

[Tytan Lannister]

TheHedgeWizard, on 13 February 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

i think the only plausible scenario with blackfish is that he will meet up with the BwB and uncat. Him meeting UnCat would be interesting.

Lol that would be epic ... The whole undead thing might put a downer on the family reunion though

dtones520, on 13 February 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

The Vale Lords would be idiotic to go to war, especially for the Blackfishes losing cause, right now. Survive winter, then make your move, because winter is going to wreck havoc on the north and riverlands. Or just bend the knee to whomever wins the Throne and go on about your lives.

I definitely agree...   The Lords of the Vale would do better staying put. And it may be the Clansmen of the Mountains of the Moon will attack or course problems for the Lords of the Vale, (they are armed with Lannister Steel...) meaning they would have to deal with their own internal problems before getting involved in anything else.

Edited by Skyler, 14 February 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[dtones520]

I wonder what UnCat would do if she met up with Brynden or Edmure. Would she hang them too? They did give Riverrun up to the Lannisters without a fight. Considering how she treated Brienne, when Brianne/Jaime are trying to make sure Sansa is safe from Cerise, kinda makes you wonder. She obviously wasn't the most reasonable person in life (her treatment of Jon, accusing Tyrion, etc) and is even worse in death.

It wouldn't surprise me if she ever stumbled on Edmure that she would hang him, maybe not the Blackfish, but it would be interesting to see.

[House Martell]

It may not be a matter of Blackfish leading a Vale force vs. an army, he may need to take the forces north to deal with whatever may be rising there. Sitting out winter may not be an option once the Others attack.

[Frey Pie]

I kinda like the idea of BF getting the brotherhood to help free edmure,break out the Stark prisoners,Greatjon,head north,meet up with howland reed and cause havoc.
But the Vale does seem plausable. However i dont think BF has the political acumen of LF and so could be torn to pieces by him. I do think the Vale lords would follow him if a few things were different-winter,LF as lord protector.The only way i can see him gaining the swords of the vale is if Royce joins him.If he does many others will join with him
As for the mountain clans-tyrion asked for armour enough for 3000 men-nothing in comparison to the25000to30000of the Vale,especially as theyre underfed and indisciplined

[Ashkan Stark]

Nev yn, on 13 February 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

For what must be the fifth time in this thread, because they wanted to help but Lysa forbade it (she required that their only concern be the immediate personal safety of her son).

Can U tell me when they said such a thing?? I really really hate Lysa. she ruined Stark family with her letter to Cat in AGoT and she didn't help them in the war. Vale is very hard to reach and her idiot sick son would have been safe even if they helped Robb. It is not logical for Blackfish to go to Vale for help. I think his story will be one of these 3:
1-he goes North with Robb's heir
2-he meets Cat
3-he goes north to help Stannis

[Lady Octarina]

dtones520, on 14 February 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

I wonder what UnCat would do if she met up with Brynden or Edmure. Would she hang them too? They did give Riverrun up to the Lannisters without a fight. Considering how she treated Brienne, when Brianne/Jaime are trying to make sure Sansa is safe from Cerise, kinda makes you wonder. She obviously wasn't the most reasonable person in life (her treatment of Jon, accusing Tyrion, etc) and is even worse in death.

It wouldn't surprise me if she ever stumbled on Edmure that she would hang him, maybe not the Blackfish, but it would be interesting to see.

I'm no fan of Catelyn, quite the contrary, but I think the Jaime/Brienne is very particular, since she has no idea they were really trying to find Sansa. Let's not forget she doesn't have the info we got on their thought and dispositions - as far as she knows Brienne is simply a traitor who is now helping the Lannisters. I don't know how that shadow of a human would feel towards the BF, but Edmure, yeah, she probably won't treat her brother that well if they ever meet. I mean, the guy actually happily consummated his marriage while thousands of men were slaughtered all around the Twins!

[Lykos]

@Ashkan Stark
"Lysa was as lonely as she was. Her new husband seemed to spend more time at the foot of the mountain than he did atop it. He was gone now, had been gone the past four days, meeting with the Corbrays. From bits and pieces of overheard conversations Sansa knew that Jon Arryn's bannermen resented Lysa's marriage and begrudged Petyr his authority as Lord Protector of the Vale. The senior branch of House Royce was close to open revolt over her aunt's failure to aid Robb in his war, and the Waynwoods, Redforts, Belmores, and Templetons were giving them every support." I took this quote of AFfC of post#19 ,Why should the Vale help Sansa?, by oba.

Edited by Lykos, 14 February 2012 - 08:07 PM.