171 replies to this topic

[Proposition]

The search function of this forum didn't turn up anything on this topic, but if this is already being discussed somewhere let me know.

Could Bran and Bloodraven hatch their own dragon egg?

We know from The Mystery Knight that Bloodraven was at one time in possession of a dragon egg, and with no information to the contrary we can assume he still is.  From the Christmas Gift chapter it's apparent that Bran and/or Bloodraven as well as Asha want Stannis (who intends to kill Theon) to take Theon to a nearby weirwood tree.  In A Game of Thrones it's shown that some sort of sacrifice is required to hatch dragon eggs.  Both Theon and Dany's unborn child share a sort of "king's blood" which is apparently of great importance when it comes to casting spells.

Unfortunately, I don't have my books on hand to reread Bran's chapters to see if this holds some weight.  If anyone has read them recently - did you notice any references to strange egg shaped rocks?

Finally, a few points that throw some doubt on my theory:

1. Bran seems to be trying to help Theon throughout ADWD, trying to get him to remember his name.  He also doesn't strike me as someone willing to sacrifice a person he's known all his life, even after the terrible things Theon has done to his home.
2. Asha is most likely just trying to give her brother a clean death or attempt an escape.  I doubt she's weak-willed enough to be warged or manipulated by Bran/Bloodraven.
3.  The type of magic that Bloodraven wields isn't the same as a shadowbinder's - king's blood or a sacrifice may not be required.  If it isn't, an explanation for Bloodraven not already hatching his egg could be that the assistance of a more powerful greenseer (Bran) is required.
4.  Finally, how useful could a baby dragon even be?  Dany's dragons served well to rally people to her, but took 5 books to actually be useful in combat.  Bloodraven/Bran are both incapable of leaving their cave at the moment, so they wouldn't be able to use the dragon to bring people to their cause (whatever that may be) and there doesn't seem to be enough time left in the series for it to even rival Viserion, the weakest of Dany's dragons, even if it was allowed to grow unrestricted.

Either way, I still feel this a topic worthy of discussion.  What say you?

[alienarea]

We don't know when the Theon chapter takes place in TWoW. If it takes place after Jon has been stabbed, and Bran knows that Jon warged into Ghost, I assume Bran would be willing to sacrifice Theon to get Jon back.

[Proposition]

alienarea, on 10 February 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

We don't know when the Theon chapter takes place in TWoW. If it takes place after Jon has been stabbed, and Bran knows that Jon warged into Ghost, I assume Bran would be willing to sacrifice Theon to get Jon back.

I thought it was confirmed that this was before some of the chapters in the end of Dance, particularly Jon's last.  I don't think it would make sense for Ramsay to send that letter, whether he's bluffing or not, before the battle of Winterfel takes place.

I'm trying to find where GRRM said this, but I'm not coming up with anything.  I'll update this post if I manage to find it.

[Lady Octarina]

It would be interesting if they managed to get a dragon, but I don't see how that would be useful, unless the dragon egg is not in that cave, but somewhere warmer, south of the wall. Because, as you said:

Proposition, on 09 February 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

4.  Finally, how useful could a baby dragon even be?  Dany's dragons served well to rally people to her, but took 5 books to actually be useful in combat.  Bloodraven/Bran are both incapable of leaving their cave at the moment, so they wouldn't be able to use the dragon to bring people to their cause (whatever that may be) and there doesn't seem to be enough time left in the series for it to even rival Viserion, the weakest of Dany's dragons, even if it was allowed to grow unrestricted.

And didn't someone said on another thread that Bloodraven's egg was Drogon's?

[Landis]

Lady Octarina, on 10 February 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

And didn't someone said on another thread that Bloodraven's egg was Drogon's?

That's the suggestion. I would be curious to see an interaction between Bloodraven and Drogon because of this, actually.

[FanTasy]

Lady Octarina, on 10 February 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

And didn't someone said on another thread that Bloodraven's egg was Drogon's?

Interesting. Do you know which thread? I'd love to see where this idea comes from and what references there may be for this.

His personal arms are a white dragon breathing a red flame on a black field.
Blood=red; raven= black. Drogon = black and red colored.

Is there something in the Dunk and Egg stories which suggests Bloodraven had a dragon egg? And if so, how and where he lost it and it turned up in Pentos?

[Lykos]

@Fan Tasy

Apple Martini, on 27 January 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

Although I'm still keen on the idea that Drogon's egg is Lord Butterwell's, I have to admit that it would blow my everlovin' mind if Bloodraven has the dragon egg up north and is able to hatch it and have himself or Bran warg it.

[FanTasy]

Thanks Lykos!

[Lady Octarina]

FanTasy, on 11 February 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Interesting. Do you know which thread? I'd love to see where this idea comes from and what references there may be for this.

The discussion is going around here.

[Lykos]

That´s where I poitned to, too.

[Lykos]

Proposition, on 09 February 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

2. Asha is most likely just trying to give her brother a clean death or attempt an escape.  I doubt she's weak-willed enough to be warged or manipulated by Bran/Bloodraven.

I don´t think Asha is likely to let Theon be sacrificed, for she has plans to use him to claim the Seastone Chair.

She learned at the end of ADwD the story of Torgon the Latecomer.

So unless she becomes convinced that it is more important for her she will not let this happen, even though she thinks he might be better of dead.

However I like the idea that something really powerfull is awakened with the help of Bran.

[David C. Hunter]

Lykos, on 11 February 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

@Fan Tasy

Yesss!!!!

[3CityApache]

Proposition, on 10 February 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

I thought it was confirmed that this was before some of the chapters in the end of Dance, particularly Jon's last.  I don't think it would make sense for Ramsay to send that letter, whether he's bluffing or not, before the battle of Winterfel takes place.

I'm trying to find where GRRM said this, but I'm not coming up with anything.  I'll update this post if I manage to find it.

He said it on his blog, when he replaced an old ADWD chapter withe the new one:

(The chronology, as usual, is tricky. This chapter will be found eventually at the beginning of WINDS, but as you will be able to tell from context, it actually takes place before some of the chapters at the end of DANCE).

[3CityApache]

Sorry, double post.

Edited by 3CityApache, 16 February 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[m_k]

Bran will surely warg a dragon because he is the winged wolf. I don't think he is destined to only ride raven. I have my own theory about the three riders of the dragon.

Dany (representing fire) will fly with drogon
bran (representing ice) will fly the ice dragon which summer has seen during burning of winterfell.
Jon (fire & ice ) will fly Rhaegal (named after his father).

I think the other dragon Viserion (named after danny's brother ) will die to save danny thus fulfilling the duty of her brother may be during victorion's attempt to take over danny and her dragon.


Anybody agree ?

[FanTasy]

m_k, on 17 February 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Bran will surely warg a dragon because he is the winged wolf. I don't think he is destined to only ride raven. I have my own theory about the three riders of the dragon.
Dany (representing fire) will fly with drogon
bran (representing ice) will fly the ice dragon which summer has seen during burning of winterfell.
Jon (fire & ice ) will fly Rhaegal (named after his father).
I think the other dragon Viserion (named after danny's brother ) will die to save danny thus fulfilling the duty of her brother may be during victorion's attempt to take over danny and her dragon.
Anybody agree ?

Well, you thought it true.through. I'm sorry, I dont think Bran will skinchange into a dragon. He is flying ravens now and who knows eagles are next. So he is a winged wolf and an unchained wolf as well. But you can be right, who knows what GRRM is planning

Edited by FanTasy, 17 February 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Tytan Lannister]

m_k, on 17 February 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Bran will surely warg a dragon because he is the winged wolf. I don't think he is destined to only ride raven. I have my own theory about the three riders of the dragon.

Dany (representing fire) will fly with drogon
bran (representing ice) will fly the ice dragon which summer has seen during burning of winterfell.
Jon (fire & ice ) will fly Rhaegal (named after his father).

I think the other dragon Viserion (named after danny's brother ) will die to save danny thus fulfilling the duty of her brother may be during victorion's attempt to take over danny and her dragon.


Anybody agree ?

Interesting.... Though i don't really agreed about Bran's involment. I personally believe the 3 heads of the dragons will be:
1) Dany with Drogon
2) Aegon with Viserion
3) Jon with Rhaegal

But I certainly think it would be entertaining and meaningful in regards to the theme if there was a fire dragon, ice dragon and a dragon of both ice & fire.

[Lady Octarina]

Skyler, on 17 February 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Interesting.... Though i don't really agreed about Bran's involment. I personally believe the 3 heads of the dragons will be:
1) Dany with Drogon
2) Aegon with Viserion
3) Jon with Rhaegal

This would be too obvious; I thought Aegon was the third head when I read too, but if he's a Blackfyre pretender, chances are he'll be killed before that. I doubt "the dragon has three heads" mean three different people, but as far as I know there could still be a hidden Targ in Westeros, north of the Wall: Hodor. Seriously, I'm not trolling, but there's something about that man, he'll be significant somehow. What the hell is the meaning of Hodor anyway? It's not even his name, why does he keep repeating it? And wasn't there some information somewhere about Old Nan's involvement with a Targ? Maybe it's not her with her old tales that will be significant, but this strange descendant (great-grandson?)

[m_k]

FanTasy, on 17 February 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Well, you thought it true. I'm sorry, I dont think Bran will skinchange into a dragon. He is flying ravens now and who knows eagles are next. So he is a winged wolf and an unchained wolf as well. But you can be right, who knows what GRRM is planning

I really want bran to warg a dragon. I mean even Varamyr was able to skinchange an eagle and he think jon is a very powerfull warg (may be even better than him) and bran is way more powerful than jon and is in training with BR. I remember joren said somewhere that a green seer is able to change skin with any living animal which flies or swims or run. So dragon warging is surely on the card. I know dragons are magical and it will be tough, but this is bran we are taking about who with out training able to warg hodor.

@ skyler

I am not saying Rhaegal will have both the power of ice and fire. There is no evidence of that yet i am just saying jon represents both fire and ice because of R+L=J. Danny represents fire and bran represents ice.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Lady Octarina, on 17 February 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

This would be too obvious; I thought Aegon was the third head when I read too, but if he's a Blackfyre pretender, chances are he'll be killed before that.

Huh? Blackfyre Targaryens are just as much proper heirs to be dragonriders as the non-Blackfyre Targaryens, you know. And there are some who say they are even more deserving. Just looked at legally, all Blackfyres are the legit offspring of King Aegon IV. There may be more to it than that, but that much is not in dispute. They’re Targaryens, pure and through.

Remember how Dany’s dragons were friendly enough with Brown Ben Plumm, who had only a drop of dragon blood through Viserys Plumm, Lord Brynden “Maynard Plumm/Bloodraven” Rivers’ distant cousin.

So I’m sure the dragons will get all snuggly-wuggly with swift Aegon the Unexpected.

Izzio-Rizzinty

Aegon Targaryen

Claims that he’s really

Prince Rhaegar’s dead son.

Despite this dubious

Chronobiology

Swift he comes conquering:

Storm’s End’s undone.

Excerpted from A Double-Dactyl of Ice and Fire, finally not hidden in spoiler tags because this is the Winds forum.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood, 18 February 2012 - 08:45 AM.